SC - Paul Murdaugh & mom Margaret Found Shot To Death - Alex Murdaugh Accused - Islandton #24

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  • #601
Alex Murdaugh is a hunter. Unless he is the joke of all the hunters, he could have dropped them both with one shot each. And he could have shot them from 100 yards away with one shot each. He didn't have to be within feet of them or walk over for a kill shot to Maggi's head. No need for an up close and personal ambush.

Seriously, this is amateur shooting and the second shot to Paul being at such an angle is because the shooter fell down from the kick because he/she had no experience with shotguns. Paul heard his mom getting shot and tried to make it to her and shooter, splayed on ground, blasts again.

The second shooter had Maggi, but was not a great shot either. In fact, a truly poor shot. Shooting low, not experienced in shooting moving game. Unlike Alex.

Who kills the family of those who owe them money? Cartels.

Long guns disappear how? Stolen. Traded. Given.

JMHO but this is the scenario Eddie creates. Reasonable doubt.

And so your theory is that a Cartel sends two inexperienced Sicario's, who by definition are hired killers that don't know how to shoot guns, and they went to Moselle, stole the guns that they were going to use from inside the house, then go sneaking around the property hoping that BOTH Maggie and Paul would just magically appear at the darkened dog kennels, and then they completely slopped up the hit and had to use multiple rounds of Alex's ammo. Then they just disappeared into the night?

What about the dogs?? They would have been going crazy at two guys sneaking around the kennels. Let's also remember that the spent bullet casings at the kennels matched bullet casings found up at the Moselle house AND shooting range meaning they all came from the same gun.

And since we know that Alex was with the two at the kennels right before the murders, they had to conveniently wait for him to leave before they went ahead and killed them. I'm not buying that at all. It makes absolutely no sense. Why not kill Buster too in order to really send a message. What about the rest of the extended family?

And IF that is what happened why wouldn't Alex, who is a well connected lawyer not just go to the feds for protective custody for both him and Buster and any other remaining family members? Once they are in protective custody, no cartel is getting to them here in the United States. It's not like Mexico where everyone can be bought off.

It makes more sense to me that Alex is a nervous wreck because he is in fact trying to kill his wife and son, and having only killed game before struggles mightily and botches up the kills. He is also apparently stoned to the gills from a roughly $10,000 a day Oxy habit! He is trying to make it look like what he THINKS a cartel hit would look like, so he uses two different guns.

I honestly don't see how anyone can view all the interviews and first responder bodycams, and the 911 calls from both incidents and doesn't see that he is lying through his teeth.
 
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  • #602
There had to be someone on the inside at Bank of America,

My Magic 8 Ball says...

Yes

I agree with you. I think more than a few banking people will be getting charged with financial crimes in dealings with AM.

MOO
 
  • #603
Eddie was the 'check casher', then the money would be given back to Alex except for a possible 'check cashing fee'.
That's really dumb. Not you, of course. I mean Alex.

To use a guy like to hide the money trail is just not going to fool anyone.
 
  • #604
IMO AM’s story of getting Eddie to kill him was preposterous. He admitted he didn’t pay Eddie to do it. That fact blew the whole story up. Why would Eddie agree to kill him if he wasn’t paid? I don't think investigators bought it. JMO.
 
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  • #605
Alex Murdaugh is a hunter. Unless he is the joke of all the hunters, he could have dropped them both with one shot each. And he could have shot them from 100 yards away with one shot each. He didn't have to be within feet of them or walk over for a kill shot to Maggi's head. No need for an up close and personal ambush.

Seriously, this is amateur shooting and the second shot to Paul being at such an angle is because the shooter fell down from the kick because he/she had no experience with shotguns. Paul heard his mom getting shot and tried to make it to her and shooter, splayed on ground, blasts again.

The second shooter had Maggi, but was not a great shot either. In fact, a truly poor shot. Shooting low, not experienced in shooting moving game. Unlike Alex.

Who kills the family of those who owe them money? Cartels.

Long guns disappear how? Stolen. Traded. Given.

JMHO but this is the scenario Eddie creates. Reasonable doubt.
Who knows... maybe he hunts like he plants trees. (TIMBER!)
 
  • #606
Yip! And it doesn't help he threw HIS knife to slash the tire across into the bushes...
L!!!
Two things, he tossed the phone and didn't learn and tossed the knife.
He disposed of the murder weapons and admitted the gun used in the drive by was stored at his parents home and all now have mysteriously disappeared.
Creature of habit?
 
  • #607
Where can I read or hear Ryan Kelly’s testimony today? Finding just bits and pieces through Google.
 
  • #608
The roadside show makes it pretty clear that AM is comfortable when making a complete BS 911 call and report. I still don’t see evidence of some long term plan to commit double murder tho.
 
  • #609

Jury comes back in. Grubbs, the cell phone data guy, takes the stand for cross-examination. Except that defense attorney Phillip Barber doesn't bother to cross-examine him. So now we're moving on to the next witness.

I believe that decision speaks to the defense's estimation of the value (or lack thereof) Grubbs' testimony provided to the state's case. The state’s 59th witness is Kenneth Kinsey, an Orangeburg County sheriff’s deputy and crime scene expert.

Kinsey is also a professor at Claflin College.

It sounds like Kinsey was brought into the case at the end of 2022. He reviewed crime scene reports and photos and traveled out to Moselle to take measurements for a crime scene reconstruction.

Waters is displaying photos of the feed room where Paul Murdaugh was shot. Kinsey explains that blood and bloody footprints lead toward the door after the first shot, which hit Paul in the chest at an angle and wasn’t fatal.

Waters: Were Paul’s arms raised before the first shotgun blast? “I see no possible way,” Kinsey said. Waters trying to establish that Paul was killed unexpectedly or by someone he knew.

Kinsey: Paul wasn’t facing the feed room door when he was first shot. More likely he was perpendicular to the door. The wound was oblong, not round. Kinsey estimates the shotgun itself was somewhere inside the door because the shot shell was found inside the door.

Kinsey: Paul’s height was listed with the DMV as 5-foot-6, but the pathologist said he was 5-foot-9. He said he split the difference in his own analysis.

This green cone illustrates the trajectory of the second shotgun blast that killed Paul, Kinsey testifies. Dramatic upward angle

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Kinsey testifies he used biological matter found at the scene, including brain and blood matter found high on the walls and door, to estimate the trajectory. He said the second shot was fired from outside the feed room, to the right of the doorway.

Kinsey: Paul was moving toward the doorway after the first shot. When he was shot, his body fell forward outside of it.

Waters: Any way Paul’s injury came from the top of his head in a contact fashion? (As Harpootlian tried to establish earlier this week with Dr. Riemer) Kinsey: No way. Because then the biological material wouldnt have been sprayed onto the top of the door.

Waters asks Kinsey if there is any forensic value in collecting every single one of the 150-156 pellets that come in a birdshot shotgun round. Kinsey says no. As long as you get enough of them for a sample for the forensic examiner to weigh.

Note: Earlier in this trial, defense attorney Jim Griffin pointed out that investigators didn’t collect some 30 pellets from the feed room. Kinsey: “There is no forensic value as long as you have enough to determine what type of shot or what type of shell and the weight of it.”

Kinsey on Paul after the first shot: Based on blood evidence, “he’s moving real slow to the door.” The first shot hurt him badly and affected him.
In the courtroom, Murdaugh bends over. Appears to be crying.

Kinsey uses Waters as a prop to explain the angle at which Paul was shot the second time.

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Kinsey's testimony about how Paul and Maggie were shot, as well the order of the wounds and which were fatal vs. nonfatal, very closely tracks with what MUSC forensic pathologist Dr. Ellen Riemer testified earlier this week.

The shots at Maggie were fired from a military-style rifle “in very quick succession” from about 4-5 feet away, Kinsey says. He says he can tell from the similar angle from which the shots were fired.

Via the @wltx feed, prosecutor Creighton Waters gets onto his hands and knees (bottom-right of the screen) to show how Maggie might have been positioned when the first fatal shot was fired at her. Kinsey uses a stick to demonstrate the shooter’s position.

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Waters now asks about the impression found on the back of Maggie’s calf. He shows Kinsey a photo of it. Kinsey testifies he did an analysis of that impression. Murdaugh’s attorneys have been asking about this for weeks now.

Kinsey is explaining how he does footwear and tire tread analysis. He comes off as extremely smart and experienced. He is also a good communicator. We haven't gotten to the reveal yet.

Waters: Is it your expert opinion that that mark on the back of Maggie’s leg is a tire tread impression and nothing else? Kinsey: “That is a tire tread impression. That is my opinion.” So, someone ran over Maggie with the ATV?

Kinsey says the impression on Maggie's calf is consistent with the ATV tire tread. Waters wonders if it is consistent with Maggie backing up into the ATV. How did it get there? "I saw no evidence that she was run over," Kinsey says.

Waters asks if the angle of the shots that killed Maggie is consistent with the shooter coming from the feed room. Kinsey: “It certainly could be.”

Waters asks about how Paul’s phone came to be lying on his back-right pocket. Kinsey: “There is no way Paul could have retrieved that phone from his pocket and placed it on the back of his pants.” Someone else did that after his death.

Waters: Was there forensic value in investigators searching and swabbing the Moselle house that night? Kinsey: Not really because the family left DNA everywhere.

Waters' final question: “Did you see any evidence or anything that would reflect a struggle between Paul and the shooter?” Kinsey: “I did not.” No defensive wounds on Paul or Maggie.

Defense attorney Dick Harpootlian rises for cross-examination.

Edited to include one additional tweet.

Absolutely unconscionable. AM used his experience with weapons to choose his position wisely and most effectively.

Unexpectedly, Paul takes a long shot shattering his right shoulder but he would have lived with treatment, sutures and tlc. But, the killer poised himself, outside the feed door, crouched down so when Paul reacted to the gunshot, Paul's body began falling forward as Paul turned his head left to look his killer in the eye before the killer ejected Paul's brains with the kill shot.

The Killer turns their attention to Maggie with a high velocity AR or was Paul the first victim? Two of her wounds show stippling.

This is where I'm unclear. Did the killer shoot twice, with one in the thigh, in order to take her down in pain, then circle around her while shooting her head? He shot her wrist, too. Surely that was a defensive wound, no?

I need the flow of the crime explained like I'm 12yo, please.


TIA
 
  • #610
The introduction of his failed 'suicide' mission just makes it look like AM wanted people to believe that the 'hit man/men' of MM and PM were out to finish the job they had started with MM and PM. I don't believe Cousin Eddie was 'hired' to actually kill but only maim AM. That way AM gets to live but people would really believe that MM and PM weren't the only family members meant to be killed and that it was a vengeance killing and attempt and 'poor AM' survived by the grace of God. AM would be cleared, cases would be dropped for 'poor AM' (he's suffered enough after losing his family). I don't think AM ever thought he would be considered a suspect after his wife and son were killed. AM had to quickly come up with a reason for his failed Cousin Eddie mission once LE caught on to him so AM again tried to look like a poor victim by saying he was taking his own life in order to give money to his only surviving son. IMO. He's so desperately transparent and pathetic. I feel nothing but contempt for AM. Every story glorifies AM and is self serving. MOO.

I think he intended to take Eddie out by reason of ‘self defense’. He could then point to Eddie as the killer and the charges against AM would be dropped.

Who knows what he told Eddie to get him out there with the gun but I don’t think Eddie thought AM was going to take him down, or otherwise he wouldn’t have met him out there. After he arrived he may have figured it out though.

AM didn’t care if Eddie was dead or ended up in jail.
 
  • #611
What is the defence lawyer doing! He wants to change where zero degrees is and then claim the angle is 45 degrees rather than 135 degrees?
DH is known for trying to confuse the jury.
 
  • #612
Who knows... maybe he hunts like he plants trees. (TIMBER!)
Agreed bad tree hunter as well. Cartel don't bother fumbling with phones! let alone hauling one out of the place only to toss it a half a mile down the road. Agree though he may hunt like he plants trees. I been hunting over 30yrs and seen my share of truly bad hunters despite them having the best weapons, some have the natural skill and some just scare you when they pick up a weapon.
 
  • #613
So the cartel shows up at Moselle without their own guns?

Yes, they are just going to use an invisible drone to see how many weapons they can eye up and then map out which ones they are going to use. Easy peasy, the way all killers get their weapons. Saves them money.
 
  • #614
Agreed bad tree hunter as well. Cartel don't bother fumbling with phones! let alone hauling one out of the place only to toss it a half a mile down the road. Agree though he may hunt like he plants trees. I been hunting over 30yrs and seen my share of truly bad hunters despite them having the best weapons, some have the natural skill and some just scare you when they pick up a weapon.

Amen to that!
 
  • #615
He testified for Harpootlian...... hahahahaha.....
My hubby with plenty of criminal trial work in his past says that Harpootlian brought that up to show comradery with the witness -- "they are old friends." Hubby listened to much of cross on KK and sized it up as showing the jury they could trust Harpootlian -- he and KK were just two guys collaborating, trying to get at the truth with all the angles and speculation. Only hubby's opinion. I will add I think he also works at confusing the jury (with mirror image). OMO.

Added: Hubby's assessment is that Harpootlian knows exactly what he is doing. He may appear to be a doddering but he is totally calculating every word and gesture.
 
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  • #616
DH is known for trying to confuse the jury.

He literally is. I’ve seen 3 attorneys opine on this so far. “He does it to derail the thoughts of the jurors, he cause them to have brain fatigue and also aims to break down the witnesses own professional skills-set confidence”.

‘Did God really say not to eat from EVERY……tree in the garden?’
 
  • #617
I think AM is trying to muddy up the names of people who have substantial dirt on him in the interview with DH/police. That way he can do damage to their credibility in advance. One of them is on the list of witnesses for the murder trial, and I think she knows something important. It is total speculation on my part. Maybe the "He is up to something" quote.

I have been struggling to find the right metaphor for how AM conducts his close relationships with family, friends, co-workers, CES. I feel like every relationship in his life has an expiration date. He is able to lavish these people with his attention and superficial charm, knowing that it won't last forever.

On the expiration date, he extracts maximum usage out of the person and then discards them. People who still trust AM just have not reached their expiration date, yet, and for some reason, they are not seeing the pile of wreckage of AM's other victims. They are still in his bubble.

He is also able to hush up any public talk about his crimes through power, intimidation, manipulation, and the art of BS.

He'll bring you close so he can repurpose you and mine you for his needs, and then he'll leave you like a pile of useless rubble. What bewilders me is how his intimate circle does not see the pattern until it is too late. It is like they don't see the weird extractor claws pop out until it is their time.

He should be on the cover of psychopath magazine.
Brilliant assessment.
 
  • #618
DH is known for trying to confuse the jury.
Unless jurors in SC are extraordinarily simple-minded, which I doubt, it was borderline offensive to hear DH act silly and confused about angles of 135 and 45. What made it worse was that he was knowingly arguing nonsense with the witness while acting silly.

He was wasting everyone's time with his performance this morning, worse than usual. His usual tone is rude and condescending, but this was Dick Harpootlian acting like he didn't speak English.
 
  • #619
Who knows... maybe he hunts like he plants trees. (TIMBER!)

I just spent some time trying to find any mention or photos of Alex himself being a good hunter. I found one photo of him in hunting gear but no dead prey, but found plenty of photos of Paul displaying the results of his hunts (and other Murdaugh men as well). So, people might just be assuming that because he owns gun and a hunting "lodge" and comes from a family of hunters, that he's any good at it. He might suck royally but still enjoy it, and it seems like in that family it was pretty much a requirement, skilled or not.
 
  • #620
And so your theory is that a Cartel sends two inexperienced Sicario's, who by definition are hired killers that don't know how to shoot guns, and they went to Moselle, stole the guns that they were going to use from inside the house, then go sneaking around the property hoping that BOTH Maggie and Paul would just magically appear at the darkened dog kennels, and then they completely slopped up the hit and had to use multiple rounds of Alex's ammo. Then they just disappeared into the night?

What about the dogs?? They would have been going crazy at two guys sneaking around the kennels. Let's also remember that the spent bullet casings at the kennels matched bullet casings found up at the Moselle house AND shooting range meaning they all came from the same gun.

And since we know that Alex was with the two at the kennels right before the murders, they had to conveniently wait for him to leave before they went ahead and killed them. I'm not buying that at all. It makes absolutely no sense. Why not kill Buster too in order to really send a message. What about the rest of the extended family?

And IF that is what happened why wouldn't Alex, who is a well connected lawyer not just go to the feds for protective custody for both him and Buster and any other remaining family members? Once they are in protective custody, no cartel is getting to them here in the United States. It's not like Mexico where everyone can be bought off.

It makes more sense to me that Alex is a nervous wreck because he is in fact trying to kill his wife and son, and having only killed game before struggles mightily and botches up the kills. He is also apparently stoned to the gills from a roughly $10,000 a day Oxy habit! He is trying to make it look like what he THINKS a cartel hit would look like, so he uses two different guns.

I honestly don't see how anyone can view all the interviews and first responder bodycams, and the 911 calls from both incidents and doesn't see that he is lying through his teeth.
Actually, forget the cartels. The dogs did it. Tired of lousy food and being kenneled. As they say, “Every dog has his day.”
 
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