VERDICT WATCH SC - Paul Murdaugh & mom Margaret Found Shot To Death - Alex Murdaugh Accused - Islandton #36

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  • #581
What I’m having a hard time with is AM shoots PM, MM is only 12-15 feet away and must have seen PM falling as she’s headed towards him….she would have seen AM head towards her, why didn’t she turn to run? How did AM get within 3 feet of her and she was shot in the front..another words I would be expecting her to be shot from behind. Maybe her brain just didn’t process what she was seeing that fast to turn. Also AM would have switched guns so there would be an extra few seconds there to process it. I believe he’s totally guilty, just having a hard time picturing how he was facing them both when he shot them.
I think Maggie might have been distracted further away and she moved toward the sound of the first shotgun blast then she might have witnessed the second (and I really like CW's version that Alex thought 1 blast would kill him and he was putting the shotgun down when Paul moved closer to the doorway and then he reacted and shot the second time at that odd angle. I think that second gun was Paul's and it was leaned up outside the feed room door.

Now I am a mother so I can try to imagine and I think if I felt my husband would never hurt us, I'd be thinking some accidental discharge happened or some awful accident and I'd not quite process that my husband just shot my child. I might even still move toward my child not considering my husband would then be wanting to shoot me too. I think it's just partly mother's instint and add in that trust for a spouse it just wouldn't be as quick a reaction to run as I think I'd have if it was a stranger I saw.. my gut would say run from the moment I saw a stranger with a gun, but not so much when I saw my husband with a gun. My husband that was just getting a chicken from our dogs mouth.. just wouldn't make sense immediately. Even a 5 or 10 second delay is all Alex needed.. probably not even that. I think he shot her leg so she couldn't run.
 
  • #582
I didn't see the guy barking orders but I get the whole " unprofessional" thing but it's really just a regional/Southern 'thing'. I say this as being a "Damn Yankee". A "Yankee" is someone visiting from the North. A "Damn Yankee" is a person from the North who moves down here on a permanent basis. I was born in NJ! I moved down here to Charleston for the 1st time in the mid 90's. Circumstances took me away from Charleston in the late 90's and I lived elsewhere for about 10 yrs. During those 10 yrs I always wanted to move back so in the mid-2000's I did just that and moved back. Circumstance again reared it's ugly head when I got cancer and I had to move closer to a treatment center in NY that specialized in my kind of rare cancer. After I kicked cancer's @ss I moved back to Charleston again because I love this place so much.

So why am I telling you this? I've lived here and moved away and moved back again a few different times. Each time I return, it takes me awhile to fall back into " the Way" things are done here". I call it De-Yankee-izing. It's very similar to decompressing. For one thing, people are much friendlier and outgoing. It shocked me the 1st time I got in an elevator down here and the person in the elevator said " Hi " to me! Same thing happened when I walked down a street passing someone and they also said " Hi" or at least acknowledged me. That kind of thing def does not happen in NYC!! People here will let you in at a stoplight and they don't mash on the gas peddle when the light turns green. Your basic aggressiveness in traffic is not as intense as it is in say NY/NJ/ Philly/Boston. Same thing when you're at a restaurant or bar. People are just more patient and friendly as a whole. You'll hear " After You" when you're standing in line for something. You'll hear a lot of " please" and "Thank You" in interactions with other people..

The overall pace of life down here is completely different. Life is more relaxed and easy going. Things are more casual. People aren't as pushy as they are in say NY or Philly and I don't mean that in a bad way it just a different culture. I always get a kick out of watching my Northern friends come to visit. I immediately spot the difference in their behavior as they are generally more forward and aggressive. Same with tourists. Out of towners are easy to spot. They just act differently. I'm not saying it's bad or right or wrong, it's just something I've learned to spot over the years.

Now imagine being further away from a bigger city like Columbia or Charleston....everything is even more magnified from Yankee-ness. It really is like The Andy Griffith Show and Mayberry!! I think this difference in culture is affecting the way that these pundits on TV report on this case. They don't live here and understand the people who are on the jury. They are looking at things through Big City glasses. There is Yes and NO and no room for the in between. They may be focused on the facts and only the facts and it just doesn't work that way here. We take everything into consideration and then after looking at things from a few different angles, we'll give an answer. Yes, there are definitely facts of this case but there are also other things that are going to influence this jury.

Trust and integrity mean A LOT to people in a small town like Walterboro where everyone seems to know each other. All the focus on these financial crimes is going to play HUGE in the eyes of this jury. The thinking being that AM lied, cheated and stole from his friends and neighbors. He stole from disabled people, hurt cops, cancer patients, dying people, neighbor's clients etc.. He might not have stolen anything from them directly but maybe he stole from their friends, their friend's friends or neighbors, family members, cousins, cousin's neighbors or families etc, etc. See where I'm going with this?

Now throw in the drugs and the money involved with that, the boat accident and Alex and family's denials and shady behavior, the bullying, the fake cop act with his stinking badges and blue lights, his fake suicide act... There are dozens and dozens of people that were hurt directly and indirectly by his actions. He's possibly thrown 100's of people under the bus over a multitude selfish acts. TRUST AND INTEGRITY. AM has none. The 1000's of lies he's told over the decades are going to bring him down because he's capable of doing it. How could he NOT do this???? He's done everything else!

I'm reminded of the fable about the Frog and the Crocodile. For those that don't know it, here it is: The Frog and the Crocodile

This jury of local folks is going to look at this and say " We Won't Get Fooled Again!"

All the sniveling, snot, fake tears and pathetic nicknames in the world aren't going to save him. He has banked absolutely NOTHING in the positive column! There is NO goodwill. NO charity. NO kind acts. NO selflessness. NO community There is only Alex. It's always been Alex. The World revolves around Alex. I. Me. Mine!

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the jury doesn't take much time deciding. I think they will return a verdict of guilty. I'm changing my mind and I think we will have a decision by Fri Nite!

Thanks for reading all of this if you got this far!!
Well worth the read. I think you changed my mind about how much weight the jury will give to the financial crimes and lies. IMO CW put too much focus on motive, and not enough on means and opportunity. I hope you're right. So do you think, as some have said, that jurors might still fear the Murdaugh family, and could that influence their verdict?
 
  • #583
  • #584
Murdaugh knows the rules in his Detention Facility and knows full well that a pen is contraband and is a major security issue.
The Officers that removed the contraband from his jacket have a duty it to their Supervisor along with writing out a disciplinary report so he can attend a disciplinary hearing or wave that hearing.

Yes, he placed that in his pocket intentionally and he cannot plead ignorance because he is handed an inmate rule book right off.

He knew it is against policy, yet he placed contraband in his pocket right there in the courtroom. RIGHT THERE IN THE COURTROOM!!!

Hopefully the Officers reported that, like I said, the Officers have a duty to report.


I hope that the prosecutor brings that up in the rebuttal.

I could go on more about this but do not want to bore anyone.
I’m not bored at all
 
  • #585
Rogan was instrumental in the trial..guessing you missed it?

I had only seen/heard of the short clips of testimony where he was talking about the night of the murder. I had not encountered the long form clips where he talked about his interaction with the police or talking to Maggie's mom. I have audio processing & hearing issues as a souvenir from long Covid, so I wasn't able to go back through the long videos to see if I could find it--I had been hoping someone here could give me a quick confirmation after I spent 30 minutes googling, trying to find those specific details.

I just went and found some transcripts of all of Rogan's testimony, not just the highlights (Youtube auto transcripts are junk, so it took me a while to find something decent). I have now found confirmation of how he encountered the game warden who said law enforcement would want to talk to him (after he picked up Cash the next day) and then several minutes later (after they go through all the photos and timestamps from his phone) where he discusses talking with Maggie's mom.

Didn't mean to put you out.
 
  • #586
  • #587
Just watched the state's entire closing. The state attorney did a fantastic job of condensing 7 weeks of testimony into 3 hours.

It was Cliff's notes. Good job, Mr. Prosecutor.

I played and replayed the precise timeline which I had missed originally. The attorney cleared it all up nicely.

Mighty tight timeline.
 
  • #588
  • #589
I think Maggie might have been distracted further away and she moved toward the sound of the first shotgun blast then she might have witnessed the second (and I really like CW's version that Alex thought 1 blast would kill him and he was putting the shotgun down when Paul moved closer to the doorway and then he reacted and shot the second time at that odd angle. I think that second gun was Paul's and it was leaned up outside the feed room door.

Now I am a mother so I can try to imagine and I think if I felt my husband would never hurt us, I'd be thinking some accidental discharge happened or some awful accident and I'd not quite process that my husband just shot my child. I might even still move toward my child not considering my husband would then be wanting to shoot me too. I think it's just partly mother's instint and add in that trust for a spouse it just wouldn't be as quick a reaction to run as I think I'd have if it was a stranger I saw.. my gut would say run from the moment I saw a stranger with a gun, but not so much when I saw my husband with a gun. My husband that was just getting a chicken from our dogs mouth.. just wouldn't make sense immediately. Even a 5 or 10 second delay is all Alex needed.. probably not even that. I think he shot her leg so she couldn't run.
Just hard to wrap my brain around him looking them right in the face, although I believe he did. Hoping they get justice!
 
  • #590
Prosecutor Waters in Closing reminds the Jurors about those "5'2" vigilantes" again. Those vigilantes, the ones he said earlier had some kind of ESP, because they knew exactly the time Paul and Maggie would be there alone at the kennels, that they would find the handy family weapons there, even the Blackout gun, and they would arrive in that small time frame.

Someone rolled up the hose! Who would want to do that? I think also the thought that the vigilantes just happened to not arrive when we now know Alex was there at the kennels is another big fact to ponder on, Jurors. I'm praying you can please, please, put it all together, Jurors.
This is the whole enchilada. What is more likely>>> The *VIGILANTE* theory or AM as the killer? There is no middle ground here. If you have reasonable doubt, then you must think the vigilante scenario is plausible....that these killers knew PM and MM were present at that moment in time...that they arrived with NO WEAPONS...that the dogs didn't alert PM MM or AM as to their presence...and of course....they did the killings after AM LEFT the area. Why not go after him?
The only CONFIRMED person present at the time of the killings was >>>AM<<< and he LIED about it. I rest my case.
 
  • #591
I had only seen/heard of the short clips of testimony where he was talking about the night of the murder. I had not encountered the long form clips where he talked about his interaction with the police or talking to Maggie's mom. I have audio processing & hearing issues as a souvenir from long Covid, so I wasn't able to go back through the long videos to see if I could find it--I had been hoping someone here could give me a quick confirmation after I spent 30 minutes googling, trying to find those specific details.

I just went and found some transcripts of all of Rogan's testimony, not just the highlights (Youtube auto transcripts are junk, so it took me a while to find something decent). I have now found confirmation of how he encountered the game warden who said law enforcement would want to talk to him (after he picked up Cash the next day) and then several minutes later (after they go through all the photos and timestamps from his phone) where he discusses talking with Maggie's mom.

Didn't mean to put you out.
Thank you for going back and finding that. I was just going to try to find info on it because your description of Rogan talking to a family member about hearing Alex rang a faint bell for me. Very interesting. That must have been very stressful for him to have heard Alex in the background during his call with Paul but not to have any "proof" of it until many months later when LE was finally able to unlock Paul's phone and found the dog kennel video. JMO.
 
  • #592
  • #593
That must have been very stressful for him to have heard Alex in the background during his call with Paul but not to have any "proof" of it until many months later when LE was finally able to unlock Paul's phone and found the dog kennel video
I may have missed it, but what means were eventually used to unlock PM's phone? Why did it take so long?

It appears that was a magical moment for LE: The video was the salient item that converted AM from a vaguely suspect victim to a primary POI, IMHO.
 
  • #594
yes, good post...but sighing, AM lied about EVERYTHING. what still nags at me is his story he doesnt know how maggie and paul got down to the kennels...or who left when. he said something about them going together probably in Paul's truck. but didnt know. (???)

well, the truck was Paul's uncles during the infamous merry go round car account, and it was not driven down to the kennels. it was at the house. I know LE was misled about Paul's truck not being on the property, because AM said "they would have driven down in his truck" and LE noticed the truck wasnt there and put a BOLO out on it. did they miss checking the uncle's truck?

too many lies.
I'm not sure if you have seen this phone timeline of AM, PM and MM. I have been looking at the steps taken by all three of them.
Imo from this, I think AM may have driven MM to the kennels? PM, I think may have walked, he walked about a lot so it appears.
It certainly appears AM was driving in a hurry to and from seeing his mum. JMOO

 
  • #595
Why did he lie then? When it would help find out who brutally murdered his wife and PauPau?

For all he knew the killers might have been caught that very night!

Of course he'd want to give certainty of the last time he saw the victims alive!
 
  • #596
All it takes is one juror thinking, "He could not have INTENDED to kill them" (meaning he had no consciousness or will about killing them, it just kind of happened." "He was upset and so he killed them without meaning to."

Now, I think that's rather a silly way to think, as I think most of human behavior is intentional in some manner, and these murders absolutely were not only intended (if only one shot fired, maybe that could be accidental) but this was also planned. And for reasons. It was reasonably planned and intended.

RSBM

!!

This theory isn't even in evidence? I am not sure how a juror can come to that conclusion
 
  • #597
I just went and found some transcripts of all of Rogan's testimony, not just the highlights (Youtube auto transcripts are junk, so it took me a while to find something decent). I have now found confirmation of how he encountered the game warden who said law enforcement would want to talk to him (after he picked up Cash the next day)
Thank you for going back and finding that. I was just going to try to find info on it because your description of Rogan talking to a family member about hearing Alex rang a faint bell for me. Very interesting. That must have been very stressful for him to have heard Alex in the background during his call with Paul but not to have any "proof" of it until many months later when LE was finally able to unlock Paul's phone and found the dog kennel video. JMO.
I posted this during Prosecutor's Waters Closing Argument today and felt it must've made a big impact with the Jurors, as it did with me. It bears repeating:

After finding his son and wife shot and a terrible bloody scene. Alex called Rogan multiple times, he was so concerned with calling Rogan, the kid he says lived nearby, a friend of Paul's, Alex tried to call Rogan more than his family. Tried to turn Paul's body over, and his phone popped out, and Alex then kept trying to call Rogan while his wife and son laid dead, tried to call some boy that lived in the neighborhood at such a time. Why?

Of course, now Jurors know that Paul was in contact with Rogan, and in fact, there was a video on Paul's phone meant for Rogan about his dog. Maybe Alex was worried about what Paul had been communicating to Rogan, and sure enough there was that video that had Alex's voice on it proving he was there at the time of the murders. The video that would much later be unlocked and reveal what a liar Alex is even at the scene of his wife and son's murder.
 
  • #598
I'm surprised AM didn't better prep his testimony with rich detail.

"getting ready to leave' was an obvious example where he got ripped on X. What does this mean even? It's like he was just reading from the chapter headings of his screenplay instead of being in character.

I guess thy wargamed this out in trial prep and felt it was better for him to stay low on detail?

To me it just didn't feel real that whole part of it with the 'lying down', 'getting ready', things he might have done, 'not intentionally' deleting calls, deciding when to lie. whether he was lying yet, things he believed might be true .... ouch

he just had no credible narrative.
 
  • #599
I didn't see the guy barking orders but I get the whole " unprofessional" thing but it's really just a regional/Southern 'thing'. I say this as being a "Damn Yankee". A "Yankee" is someone visiting from the North. A "Damn Yankee" is a person from the North who moves down here on a permanent basis. I was born in NJ! I moved down here to Charleston for the 1st time in the mid 90's. Circumstances took me away from Charleston in the late 90's and I lived elsewhere for about 10 yrs. During those 10 yrs I always wanted to move back so in the mid-2000's I did just that and moved back. Circumstance again reared it's ugly head when I got cancer and I had to move closer to a treatment center in NY that specialized in my kind of rare cancer. After I kicked cancer's @ss I moved back to Charleston again because I love this place so much.

So why am I telling you this? I've lived here and moved away and moved back again a few different times. Each time I return, it takes me awhile to fall back into " the Way" things are done here". I call it De-Yankee-izing. It's very similar to decompressing. For one thing, people are much friendlier and outgoing. It shocked me the 1st time I got in an elevator down here and the person in the elevator said " Hi " to me! Same thing happened when I walked down a street passing someone and they also said " Hi" or at least acknowledged me. That kind of thing def does not happen in NYC!! People here will let you in at a stoplight and they don't mash on the gas peddle when the light turns green. Your basic aggressiveness in traffic is not as intense as it is in say NY/NJ/ Philly/Boston. Same thing when you're at a restaurant or bar. People are just more patient and friendly as a whole. You'll hear " After You" when you're standing in line for something. You'll hear a lot of " please" and "Thank You" in interactions with other people..

The overall pace of life down here is completely different. Life is more relaxed and easy going. Things are more casual. People aren't as pushy as they are in say NY or Philly and I don't mean that in a bad way it just a different culture. I always get a kick out of watching my Northern friends come to visit. I immediately spot the difference in their behavior as they are generally more forward and aggressive. Same with tourists. Out of towners are easy to spot. They just act differently. I'm not saying it's bad or right or wrong, it's just something I've learned to spot over the years.

Now imagine being further away from a bigger city like Columbia or Charleston....everything is even more magnified from Yankee-ness. It really is like The Andy Griffith Show and Mayberry!! I think this difference in culture is affecting the way that these pundits on TV report on this case. They don't live here and understand the people who are on the jury. They are looking at things through Big City glasses. There is Yes and NO and no room for the in between. They may be focused on the facts and only the facts and it just doesn't work that way here. We take everything into consideration and then after looking at things from a few different angles, we'll give an answer. Yes, there are definitely facts of this case but there are also other things that are going to influence this jury.

Trust and integrity mean A LOT to people in a small town like Walterboro where everyone seems to know each other. All the focus on these financial crimes is going to play HUGE in the eyes of this jury. The thinking being that AM lied, cheated and stole from his friends and neighbors. He stole from disabled people, hurt cops, cancer patients, dying people, neighbor's clients etc.. He might not have stolen anything from them directly but maybe he stole from their friends, their friend's friends or neighbors, family members, cousins, cousin's neighbors or families etc, etc. See where I'm going with this?

Now throw in the drugs and the money involved with that, the boat accident and Alex and family's denials and shady behavior, the bullying, the fake cop act with his stinking badges and blue lights, his fake suicide act... There are dozens and dozens of people that were hurt directly and indirectly by his actions. He's possibly thrown 100's of people under the bus over a multitude selfish acts. TRUST AND INTEGRITY. AM has none. The 1000's of lies he's told over the decades are going to bring him down because he's capable of doing it. How could he NOT do this???? He's done everything else!

I'm reminded of the fable about the Frog and the Crocodile. For those that don't know it, here it is: The Frog and the Crocodile

This jury of local folks is going to look at this and say " We Won't Get Fooled Again!"

All the sniveling, snot, fake tears and pathetic nicknames in the world aren't going to save him. He has banked absolutely NOTHING in the positive column! There is NO goodwill. NO charity. NO kind acts. NO selflessness. NO community There is only Alex. It's always been Alex. The World revolves around Alex. I. Me. Mine!

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the jury doesn't take much time deciding. I think they will return a verdict of guilty. I'm changing my mind and I think we will have a decision by Fri Nite!

Thanks for reading all of this if you got this far!!

Oh how I agree with you.

I am from Md and am residing in Md now.
I lived in Ranger Ga which is pretty rural and then Mt Pleasant NC. I would love to be at either of those places then here. I love the southern ppl and the layed back attitude. I to think the ppl there will see through him.
 
  • #600
I may have missed it, but what means were eventually used to unlock PM's phone? Why did it take so long?

It appears that was a magical moment for LE: The video was the salient item that converted AM from a vaguely suspect victim to a primary POI, IMHO.

The key piece of evidence connecting Alex Murdaugh to the killings is a video Paul Murdaugh shot from the kennels about five minutes before he last used his cellphone. It took more than a year for federal agents to hack into the young man’s locked iPhone and find it.

 
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