GUILTY SC - Shooting reported at Townville Elementary, Jacob Hall, 6, killed, Sept 2016

[bluesneakers]

Adam Lanza was mentioned in another thread today and while looking up something on him I just happened to come across this:

Sandy Hook shooting's glare illumines cracks in mental health care

“We need to be proactive, rather than reactive: How do we reach out to families in trouble, and how do they reach out to the mental-health system?” says Michael Fitzpatrick, executive director of the National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI), who believes having mental health care more integrated with the regular health-care system might remove some of the stigma of seeking treatment.

"From emergency-room doctors to police to clergy to schools and universities, we all need to be part of that public discussion of how do we get the support and treatment people need to people early enough so we’re not dealing with things at the very end when tragic things happen.”

http://m.csmonitor.com/USA/2012/121...-illumines-cracks-in-mental-health-care-video

 

[K_Z]

It's a real tragedy he didn't go to that boot camp alternative school. It looks like it has a lot of success, and a good program and staff to student ratio. Lots of access to services thru that path. I think it could have helped him more than "home school" isolation. It could have been a very good option for him. Could have saved his father's life.

The teen's life is basically over now, too. He's facing some enormous charges, and at age 14, could potentially be tried as an adult. No matter if he's tried as an adult, or juvenile, he's looking at being locked up for many years.

 

[K_Z]

Adam Lanza was mentioned in another thread today and while looking up something on him I just happened to come across this:

Sandy Hook shooting's glare illumines cracks in mental health care



http://m.csmonitor.com/USA/2012/121...-illumines-cracks-in-mental-health-care-video

The problem with Adam Lanza, IMO, was Nancy Lanza. She enabled his mental illness every step of the way, and avoided and rebuffed any and all efforts to help him. She was wealthy and educated. She could have had the best care for him money can buy.

 

[bluesneakers]

I had lots of answers when I saw population 3,241 or something. UGH

Generally, rural folks are not all that fond of that therapy jazz!! "My kid aint no nutjob" " he just needs a good ole ass whipping and he be all steppin back shape"

" Now yeez all get offfa my property before i goes and getzzzz my rifle, dont y'all call my kid a mental whacko again, or I gonna hatchet yo to pieces for my alligators for a big tasty brunch"

Momma: "Thats right u tell them big Booby Jo Henry SMith the 8th"

humm humm specuating again!

Jumping off your post I just had another thought - perhaps lack of access to mental health care has something to do with the prevalence of the drug and addiction problems facing our rural communities.

Speculation and it doesn't appear his problems were related to oxy, meth or fentanyl, and of course mass shooters come from cities too, but was there a way to prevent this specific shooting?

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

PICTURED: Father killed by his 14-year-old son who then opened fire on an elementary school playground, injuring a teacher and two students

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...layground-injuring-teacher-two-students.html#




Jeffrey Osborne

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I am not sure where the stereotypical lumping of all rural area citizens into one box is coming from. The same old same old of they are all not educated and all are poor and isolated. Where in the world did that uninformed opinion come from?

Many who have lived in large cities for decades are pouring into rural areas. Upscale homes are continuously being built in beautiful rural areas because they want more than tiny 1/4 acre of land like so many sit on in larger towns. They move because of its wonderful beauty filled with greenery all around, peaceful with their homes sitting on large lots from 5 acres to 100 acre plots. Rural areas do not lead to isolation. A child can be in a home where they can spit on their next door neighbor's home and still be isolated especially if they don't want to do anything but be on a computer playing video games being couch potatoes. In fact living on rural wide open land gives children more of an opportunity to run, play, and appreciate the beautiful wonders of Mother Nature.

I live in a rural county and wouldn't have it any other way. It has been one of the fastest growing counties in my state. Most of the citizens are college educated, and high school graduates have high paying jobs with many working in government positions or are small business owners, our county has a median income of $78,000 a year which is far exceeds the national average. Low unemployment. While our county is considered rural it doesn't isolate anyone. There are beautiful subdivisions all over where children interact. Its like some must think rural people don't have cars. We can be to any store, Mall, hospital or whatever in 10-15 minutes. Oh and we get there on beautiful maintained roads and the grass shoulders are always cut and neat free of trash and litter. Our roads and our bridges are some of the safest in the state. Much safer than the ones in the county over from us which is much more crowded population wise and also at one time they were #1 city in homicides nationwide and even a couple of years ago it climbed backup to 46 in the nation.

We have one of the best public schools in the state. We have very little violent crime. It also is one of the largest counties and no longer are the businesses going into the crowded next county over from us but they are constantly building in one end of the county we live in that adjoins the congested county who isn't doing nearly as well. Businesses are leaving that congested town due to the skyrocketing of violent crimes and that is one of the reasons there is very high unemployment in that city/county even though it adjoins ours.

My in-laws have a large rural farm in another county 30 miles away and some of the best and happiest memories our children/their friends have while growing up is going to stay with them on the farm through the summer. All of their grandchildren came and friends of theirs too. Lots and lots of children having the time of their life roaming the wide open acreage, building treehouses in huge oaks, having picnics by their lake, riding horses, helping their grandfather bale his hay, catching and cooking fish right by their pond, playing baseball. There was so much to do where they would be able to use their creative minds, exercise their bodies, and enjoy the splendors of the many things God made for us all to enjoy.

It is extremely hurtful and mean spirited for anyone to stereotype anyone for where they live and making a 'blanket coverall statement' and especially if they have never even lived in such beautiful rural areas. Just because others prefer to be where houses are stacked side by side in congested cities never makes rural living bad. I am so thankful we were able to raise all five of our children in the rural area we live in. Now, they too have built their own homes in beautiful rural areas...

 

[human]

it does not matter where one lives, mental health services are hard to access as there are so many people who need them. In MN which has one of the best school systems in the US, if one has a troubled child and the family has means, the cost of residential treatment is paid by the family. Thousands of dollars a month. I believe this to be true in Wisconsin as well which has one of the top school systems in the US.

I do not know what the rules are with an expelled student. Another district would have to be willing to take him. Unless they have a special school, no district wants a child who has brought a weapon to school.

If he was identified as emotionally and behaviorally disturbed, ( if those are terms used nowadays), he would qualify for special education which guarantees free appropriate education until age 21.

The US has to become serious with addessing issues instead of wringing hands and moaning and praying over each new atrocity. This does not happen in other nations. In Europe, they have psychotropic drugs, videos, and social media. What is wrong with the US? It needs to be addressed

 

[katydid23]

auapended school last year,


rFrom above so we have a 14 yr , mom work dont know dad alone isolated no soicalization , out in the middle of nowhere, plenty of time to think and be online .

Obviouly there was stuff going on for the guy to get into hatchet , so now he is alone.

They did that to my kids, suspend, (only had a few expell that was worse) so now they are all alone (parent work)) what did they do -- got in more trouble

Obviously this is a general population that isnt all that into school in the first place, there kids, soo great I do something bad and I dont have to go for 10 days - awesome. Never made any sense to me !

Its actually postive reinformcent

I wanna be careful here - talking generaliites, not assuming anything - lets just go by basic demos. RUral, in all liklihood not a highly edcuated setting, Dad might be blue colar, maybe not all that educated himself, and is now tasked to "teach"

Who did he kill , dad? Who was teaching him? Possiblity Dad was a very short tmepred teacher. Obvously earlier hatched speaks volumes - so now we got a conflicted teenager, who has huge issues with his dad, being stuck at home with someone where there is much conflict , and possibly spending a lot of time with a frustrated parent/teacher.

AInt getting a good vibe. DOnt like the word snapped - it rarely is like that - but lets say the pressure cooker went off yesterday.

I still find it very infomrative that in his time of need he called gparent - kinda indicates to me that homelife all around was pretty intnese and conflicted. It also , seems like gma may have had to have been primary caregiver for him for some peroid of time

DV? All kids life he had to protect mom from dad??? Tough stuff, if that is it how it was, for llittle people to have to step into an adult role and protect the very people that are supposed to be keeping the little people safe. Really is confusing for little people.


Hate to say it ; there are all kinds of abuse....................

ANother general profile again, impulse control issues, anger, depression, lomliness, guessing conflicted marrage, ,o, dad financial stressers,kid has no hope for future, receipe again.

If it is accurate that he yelled out "I hate my life"I think that is kinda the perfect summary statement huh.................................

total specualtion

Last I heard, the father was a VICTIM here. I think it is a bit unfair to cast him in such a bad light on pure speculation, based upon bias and prejudice. We know nothing about his level of education nor his temperament. I think you are being biased and a bit rude.
And then you speculate that the dad assaulted the mom on a regular basis? what the heck? Isn't that a stereotype you are throwing at them, based upon pure biased speculations? wow

 

[human]

This is some info on expulsion. I have to google and see if there is something for SC. It says that some students never return to school after expulsion. Is 16 a mandatory age for school attendance? Is bringing a weapon to school an automatic expulsiion or has there been ongoing problems?

http://oureverydaylife.com/happens-students-expelled-regular-public-school-18899.html

 

[human]

Rules for South Carolina expulsion.

Seems like there are alternatives such as a virtual school or charter school. I imagine no school wants a kid who has attacked someone woth a hatchet. At that age being isolated from a social life and peers must have been hateful.

https://appleseedlegaljusticecenter.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/expulsion-20121.pdf

 

[bluesneakers]

I am not sure where the stereotypical lumping of all rural area citizens into one box is coming from. The same old same old of they are all not educated and all are poor and isolated. Where in the world did that uninformed opinion come from?

Not uninformed at all - quite the opposite.

Addiction:

Substance Abuse in Rural Areas

Factors contributing to substance abuse in rural America include:

* Low educational attainment
* Poverty
* Unemployment
* High-risk behaviors
* Isolation

Heroin Use Soars in Rural Areas

Rural areas are seeing a surge in heroin use, The Wall Street Journal reports. The rise comes as Mexican heroin production has increased in recent years. Officials seized 1,989 kilograms of heroin at the Southwest border, from Texas to California, in 2012, up from 487 kilograms in 2008, the article notes.
...
Rural areas experiencing an increase in heroin use often are unprepared to respond. They do not have adequate treatment facilities, or hospital emergency rooms that can treat overdoses. Local police forces do not have the staff to handle an increased level of narcotic investigations and drug-related crimes.

The ‘Vicious Cycle’ Of Rural Drug Addiction

“Access is the biggest problem for rural communities. It’s what that keeps them stuck in the cycle of abuse,” Jones said. “We have not even scratched the surface of reaching those people — we just don’t have the means.”
This imbalance between rural and urban abuse is replicated in every state reeling from the growing opioid crisis.

^I know we don't know anything about his drug use but this is why I made the comment - it also explains how access to care, education, isolation, and poverty affect the current drug epidemic in rural communities.

Mental health care

* Mental Health: Overlooked and Disregarded in Rural America

* Barriers to Mental Health Access for Rural Residents

* Improving Access to Mental Health Services for Youth in the United States

* Mental Health Services are A Critical Rural Need

There is an enduring myth, fostered by city-dwellers, that rural America is a rustic Eden where life is pleasant, calm and, well, organic. Yet, farmers, ranchers and other country folk are just as likely — in some ways, more likely — to find themselves grappling with mental health issues, such as depression, addiction and other serious ailments. They have a much more difficult time getting treatment, however. And little is being done to bring more services to the Heartland.
...

There are fewer mental health professionals per 100,000 rural residents than are available to urban and suburban people. Those counselors are thinly spread across the landscape, so individuals needing assistance often have to drive long distances to find the help they need.

Indeed, more than half of the 3,075 rural counties in the nation (55 percent) have no psychologists, psychiatrists or social workers, according to a report from the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.1

Education:

* What Makes Education Reform Difficult: Poverty in Rural America

- One third of rural American schools have low-income students, low achievement on standardized tests, and low rates for college attendance (Rees, 2014).
- Rural communities are generally small with a low local tax base, resulting in inadequate funding for schools.
- Rural schools serve over 40% of U.S. students, yet receive only 22% of federal funding.
“. . . Students in rural communities are likelier than their peers to live in poverty and only 27% go on to college” (Rees, 2014).
- Rural areas suffer a critical shortage of teachers, often employing teachers who are not licensed in the subjects they teach (Wang, 2014).
- Based on USDoED statistics, reading and math scores in rural districts are as low or lower than those in urban districts (Biddle, 2011).
- Graduation rates for poor and minority students who attended and/or graduated from rural high schools during the 2005-2006 school year were the same as the urban districts.Based on available research and anecdotal evidence, schools attended by low-income students have major deficiencies compared with those used by their richer peers. Although there has not been a nation-wide survey for nearly 20 years, available state data suggest there is a nexus between the condition of schools, the number of low-income students attending schools, and their achievement.

Curbing Illiteracy in the Rural South—Why a New Program Just Might Work

According to the Delta Regional Authority (DRA), approximately 40 percent of adults do not read well enough to fill out an application or read a food label in the Mississippi River Delta. Such low literacy rates brew a cesspool of problems, from low graduation rates to unemployment and health issues. In fact, many people in this region can’t even read medical instructions.
...
“Children in rural areas face obstacles that are not seen in other areas,” Cheatham said. “They may want to go to the library, but in many rural areas, there are no libraries. So many classrooms don’t have class libraries. Funding has been slashed for school libraries and media centers. How are these children supposed to get access to books?”

Poverty:

Poverty in Rural America

Regionally, rural and small town poverty rates are highest in the South where 19.3 percent of southerners live in poverty. In fact, more than half of all rural and small town persons in poverty reside in the south. Rural and small town poverty rates are lowest in the Northeast and Midwest at 12.9 and 13.6 percent respectively. Approximately 15.4 percent of rural and small town residents in the West have incomes below the poverty level.

Rural Poverty & Well-being


Rural Hunger Facts

Rural Poverty Facts

7.4 million Americans (16.7%) living in rural areas live below the federal poverty line.[v]
Compared to all regions, the South continues to have the highest poverty rate among people in families living in rural areas (15.3%) [vi].
47 percent of people in families with a single female head of household living in rural areas were poor in 2015, as compared to 35 percent in the suburbs.[vii]

And of course:

In gun debate, it's urban vs. rural

A compilation of December Gallup polls showed that rural Americans — roughly one-sixth of the population — are more than twice as likely to have a gun in the home than those living in large cities. Perhaps unsurprisingly, they are six times more likely to hunt. Rural residents are also most likely to say the best way to reduce gun violence is to better enforce current gun laws rather than pass new ones, an argument echoed by the National Rifle Association and other gun rights groups.

I think there's a good chance location and education were a factor in this shooting. Actually any one or any combination of the above might have contributed to his actions. Again - I know school and other mass shootings happen in populated areas but his specific situation has some variables that should be examined. Maybe it's one way to prevent the next one. Not every shooter, imo, has the same history that leads to the event. They all have things in common but individual experiences play a part too.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

it does not matter where one lives, mental health services are hard to access as there are so many people who need them. In MN which has one of the best school systems in the US, if one has a troubled child and the family has means, the cost of residential treatment is paid by the family. Thousands of dollars a month. I believe this to be true in Wisconsin as well which has one of the top school systems in the US.

I do not know what the rules are with an expelled student. Another district would have to be willing to take him. Unless they have a special school, no district wants a child who has brought a weapon to school.

If he was identified as emotionally and behaviorally disturbed, ( if those are terms used nowadays), he would qualify for special education which guarantees free appropriate education until age 21.

The US has to become serious with addessing issues instead of wringing hands and moaning and praying over each new attrodity. This does not happen in other nations. In Europe, they have psychotropic drugs, videos, and social media. What is wrong with the US? It needs to be addressed

Anderson is the county seat.city for Anderson County, SC where this happened.

It doesn't seem the county citizens are isolated at all away from getting mental health treatment, if needed.

This is a list of hospitals and centers located in different locations in Anderson/Anderson county to do with mental health treatment.

Anderson-Oconee-Pickens Mental
200 McGee Rd, Anderson, SC 29625
(864) 260-2220
www.aopmentalhealth.org

Anderson-Oconee-Pickens Mental
www.aopmentalhealth.org
515a Camson Rd, Anderson, SC 29625

(864) 716-2316
Anmed Health Medical Center Psychiatry/Psychology

400 N Fant St Ste D, Anderson, SC 29621

(864) 226-1166

Mental Health America
217 John St, Anderson, SC 29624
(864) 226-0297

Anmed Health Emergency Dept
www.anmedhealth.org
800 N Fant St, Anderson, SC 29621
(864) 261-1333

In our own area there is a large hospital with a mental health facility that would take our county citizens less than 5-10 minutes to get to there, and there are a slew of mental health doctors who have their own private clinics with other doctors/therapists also with them. Large hospitals are also opening their own multiple mental health clinics in various areas within the county the large main hospital is in. Now beyond being treated at the hospital itself since it is used mainly for in house mental health treatment they send them to clinics as outpatients now.. Then of course you have the clinics that are funded by the government which always seems to get the poorest ratings when it comes to mental health care.

While none of my immediate family has ever had a need for assistance of a mental health professional....I am very thankful that those who do need it in my area they have many avenues to seek help. It certainly helped my first cousin with her deep clinical depression when she lost her only daughter due to being killed by a drunk driver. She did seek help and slowly she was able to feel she could go on but she had to go back because less than five years later her 15 year old granddaughter (the daughter of the only daughter that had already been killed) was also killed by another drunk driver in a head on crash. She really spiraled downward then but little by little the therapist brought her to a place where she could go on again. Then tragedy struck her again when her youngest little great granddaughter who was 2 drowned while she was down at her other grandparents' home visiting. At first she said she didn't want to go back for therapy treatment and just wanted to die because she just couldn't take the losses anymore. But the therapist kept talking with her and she finally changed her mind. As shell shocked and damaged as she is .......she is finally doing much better now. I give all the credit to her therapist for why she is alive today. That, and the tremendous support system she has from her family.

So this family wasn't isolated in any manner and without any means to seek mental health treatment if needed.

I don't think we know at this time whether he was or wasn't seen by a mental health professional but I would certainly think so since attacking a child with a hatchet may show he had extreme violent tendencies even back then and may have some kind of conduct defiance disorder.

 

[katydid23]

"Not uninformed at all - quite the opposite."

So it is OK to speculate that the deceased Father regularly beat his wife and was a hot tempered uneducated man?

The wife is a dental hygienist. Seems she had an education.

 

[katydid23]

Not uninformed at all - quite the opposite.

Addiction:

Substance Abuse in Rural Areas


Heroin Use Soars in Rural Areas


The ‘Vicious Cycle’ Of Rural Drug Addiction


^I know we don't know anything about his drug use but this is why I made the comment - it also explains how access to care, education, isolation, and poverty affect the current drug epidemic in rural communities.

Mental health care

* Mental Health: Overlooked and Disregarded in Rural America

* Barriers to Mental Health Access for Rural Residents

* Improving Access to Mental Health Services for Youth in the United States

* Mental Health Services are A Critical Rural Need


Education:

* What Makes Education Reform Difficult: Poverty in Rural America


Curbing Illiteracy in the Rural South—Why a New Program Just Might Work


Poverty:

Poverty in Rural America


Rural Poverty & Well-being


Rural Hunger Facts


And of course:

In gun debate, it's urban vs. rural


I think there's a good chance location and education were a factor in this shooting. Actually any one or any combination of the above might have contributed to his actions. Again - I know school and other mass shootings happen in populated areas but his specific situation has some variables that should be examined. Maybe it's one way to prevent the next one. Not every shooter, imo, has the same history that leads to the event. They all have things in common but individual experiences play a part too.

I see nothing in the above links, that would support the speculation that the deceased victim was an uneducated, violent man that beat his wife regularly and was mean to his son.

 

[Dogface]

"Not uninformed at all - quite the opposite."

So it is OK to speculate that the deceased Father regularly beat his wife and was a hot tempered uneducated man?

The wife is a dental hygienist. Seems she had an education.

Apparently the stereotypes and vernacular assumptions are okay to some when talking about rural America.


I would also like to point out the leaps and bounds that have been made for helping parents who homeschool via online programs.

 

[bluesneakers]

"Not uninformed at all - quite the opposite."

So it is OK to speculate that the deceased Father regularly beat his wife and was a hot tempered uneducated man?

The wife is a dental hygienist. Seems she had an education.

Ummm... when did I say that???

 

[1&2&3]

The problem with Adam Lanza, IMO, was Nancy Lanza. She enabled his mental illness every step of the way, and avoided and rebuffed any and all efforts to help him. She was wealthy and educated. She could have had the best care for him money can buy.

This is a problem of the parent not willing to accept or acknowledge that something is wrong with their child. IIRC, she did talk about he was getting hard for her to handle, or something similar, to a friend not long before his attack.

On the other hand, many parents do not know what to do or where to turn when they have a child who is out of control. They are afraid of being blamed for causing the problem in which case either the children will be taken away or the parents will go to jail.

It is a sad situation. We are seeing an increasing problem as these children grow up and they take their rage / violence out on the unsuspecting public.

 

[bluesneakers]

I see nothing in the above links, that would support the speculation that the deceased victim was an uneducated, violent man that beat his wife regularly and was mean to his son.

I think you're misunderstanding my point. I made it clear I was speaking about the shooter:

Actually any one or any combination of the above might have contributed to his actions. Again - I know school and other mass shootings happen in populated areas but his specific situation has some variables that should be examined.

Not every shooter, imo, has the same history that leads to the event.

 

[bluesneakers]

Apparently the stereotypes and vernacular assumptions are okay to some when talking about rural America.


I would also like to point out the leaps and bounds that have been made for helping parents who homeschool via online programs.

I didn't make any assumptions - merely shared some facts (with links and sources) to back up what I said about access to mental health care and education. In discussions about mass shooters we often discuss the particulars of their situations. I don't understand why that's a problem here.

 

[katydid23]

Ummm... when did I say that???

You didn't say that. But someone else did, and I thought you were posting those links in support of his statements.