School Bus making stops at McDonalds on way to school?

[Hbgchick]

That, in much better words, is what I was trying to say a few posts ago.

Thanks for finding this, Linda.

:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

 

[Hbgchick]

Well, let's see. I was out doing some shopping in the early afternoon. Then I spent some time in the yard, taking down the Halloween decorations. After that.....

Oh, that's not what you meant?

WHAT? You mean you were out having a life? Noooo...you should have been here on Websleuths! :razz:

Seriously - I was really starting to think I was in the minority and would have to re-think actually banning peanuts in schools...and I was getting veeeeery frightened.

 

[LinasK]

Okay, playing Devil's Advocate...

Why is this person taking these kids to McDonalds without their parents or the school system's knowledge? You put the child on the bus assuming that they are going directly to and from school, no stopping, do not pass Go, do not collect $200. End of story. While I agree that the mother's scenario for disaster is a little out there, it is true that in case of emergeny the school system and parents would have NO CLUE where to look for the bus because it is no longer on its route when it is in the McDonald's parking lot or stopping at the RiteAid.

As a teacher and former daycare center worker, I have had all of the safety stuff pounded into my head and for good reason - all of our rules have come out of some horrible tragedy where a child was lost, hurt or even killed. We don't go anywhere, even in our own building, without letting someone know. There are specific plans and ways of doing things so that if there was an emergency, the first responders would not be relying on my help (what if I were the one needing their help?).

And what if the parents didn't want the kid eating at McDonalds? What if the kid has a health condition and is resistant to following the dietary guidelines. If you had a diabetic child grabbing a Coke every morning on his way to school without your knowledge,, that could seriously affect his medical care.

Heck, I have to get a permission slip for everything from photographing my students to giving them certain foods. I cannot believe it's okay for a bus driver to swing by McDonalds on a weekly basis without getting the thumbs up from anyone. And to change the pickup time to do it? What about a kid who misses the bus because they're out there at the regular time?

I think the whole thing is a little nervy myself. I'd be ticked too.

I may be in the minority here, but I completely agree with you! I don't understand these posters bashing the mother- this is a SAFETY issue!!! The bus driver had no business veering from his official route without the parents being aware of it. What if he had kidnapped them???

 

[LinasK]

I guess I'll just have to be the crazy mom on this one. I just know I personally would be fired if I took a child somewhere - anywhere - without telling the parents or the administration, and that I would be furious if someone did it with my child.

Ditto!!!:clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[LinasK]

:dance: Thank you Mabel.

Well, having personal experience in diabetic diets since childhood and as a former nutritionist with a degree-you hit a point I would like to comment on.

The last I heard, Diabetic diets INCLUDE a variety of foods even the hated McDonalds and an assortment of sweets. Hum, many say. Yes, with the addition of the once used and outdated EXCHANGE GROUPS which I taught in hospital classes, (and are still used) and the addition of counting CHO- Carbohydrates, diabetics can count their insulin requirements.

This is possible as the insulin can be regulated in those that are not considered BRITTLE DIABETIC'S to allow them to eat foods that are now allotted that once were not. It is done by matching insulin to foods. Usually only the Carbohydrates are now counted and added when using these methods. I will leave it at that and not go to deeply here.

With the addition of insulin pumps being used with some, transplanted pancreas, and other medical devices diabetics can be included and enjoy what they were not allowed during the cave-men times. (if they know how!)

And as Mabel said-they are human too and can cheat. Life is not one big restriction. CHO counting is a good way to incorporate treats. I will not get technical here on some of the medical advances or the exchanges on new insulin's, devices, etc.
--But to say: the bus driver must allow for the diabetic is insane. As high schoolers, a diabetic knows their limits and is free to chose what they can and can't do. They can adjust their requirements if need be and if they know how or ask a med. professional.

It is noted: One out of two diabetic, Juvenile- (Child type) will develop complications of diabetes no matter how well their blood sugar is controlled due to the nature of the disease.

So this has no place in this argument.

Sorry, I have to disagree with you. My sister has been a Diabetes Educator and also has her Master's in Nutrition and has worked as a Dietician for many years. I also have personal experience with Gestational Diabetes. Many people do NOT know they have diabetes, do not know the symtoms, and it doesn't take much McDonald's to blow your blood sugars off the charts- for me it was only a 1/4 pounder, a medium fries, and a milk! Two times was enough to put me on Insulin for the rest of my pregnancy! Besides a regular diet of McDonald's contributes to obesity- leading cause of Type II- Adult Onset Diabetes!
Furthermore, many diabetics are non-compliant, my parents are prime examples!

 

[LinasK]

I cant believe a school would ban everyone from eating peanut butter because some kids have peanut allergies.

My daughter's preschool has a ban on all nut products, even products made on the same assembly line as nuts, because a peanut allergy can be deathly! They even have to wash their hands before school if they have eaten nuts. Apparently it can be airborne, I used to work with a Physical Therapist who could smell when I brought back my Pad Thai (with peanut) left-overs from lunch, she got so angry because of her peanut allergy!

 

[Linda7NJ]

Sorry, I have to disagree with you. My sister has been a Diabetes Educator and also has her Master's in Nutrition and has worked as a Dietician for many years. I also have personal experience with Gestational Diabetes. Many people do NOT know they have diabetes, do not know the symtoms, and it doesn't take much McDonald's to blow your blood sugars off the charts- for me it was only a 1/4 pounders, a medium fries, and a milk! Two times was enough to put me on Insulin for the rest of my pregnancy! Besides a regular diet of McDonald's contributes to obesity- leading cause of Type II- Adult Onset Diabetes!

That's it! Now we need to ban McDona lds!

 

[LinasK]

Another thought - banning peanut products and the foods they hide in leaves the responsibility for the allergic child's life in the hands of other parents who are probably not as aware or diligent in watching for those ingredients. I wouldn't put my child's life in the hands of other less informed parents. No way.

Our Co-op preschool heavily educates the parents prior to the start of school on the no peanut issue. Other than it being an inconvience, it's not a problem, and the child who has gluten allergies and other food allergies brings his own snacks, isn't forced to eat in another room by himself, and is every bit as much a part of the group as the other children.

 

[angelmom]

I may be in the minority here, but I completely agree with you! I don't understand these posters bashing the mother- this is a SAFETY issue!!! The bus driver had no business veering from his official route without the parents being aware of it. What if he had kidnapped them???

Oh, thank Heaven! Where have you been?

(We need a foot tapping smiley that's looking at her watch! :dance: )

 

[angelmom]

But are peanut bans the best way to protect peanut-allergic kids? No, says the Food Allergy Network (FAN), an advocacy group that serves as a resource for people with food allergies. According to FAN, food bans lull allergy sufferers into a false sense of security with the perception that "someone else is taking care of the problem." A ban on peanut butter in the lunchroom discounts the risk of contact through foods brought in for classroom parties or sold at bake sales. Relying on other people to screen all food products for offending ingredients is an unrealistic expectation and increases the odds of an accidental exposure.

FAN advocates believe that the key to successful management of a peanut allergy is education. Parents should teach kids early to look carefully before they eat anything offered outside of the home. School administrators and teachers should be briefed on what foods cause the allergic reaction, what should be done in case of accidental exposure to the allergen, and where any required medical supplies needed to treat an allergy attack are stored. Schools could further help all allergy-prone kids by instituting a "no food trading" policy, and by setting aside a "peanut-free" area of the lunchroom.

http://www.stjohn.org/healthinfolib/hgArticle.aspx?DocID=/healthy/eating/1999/peanuts/index

Education and communication are the keys to managing peanut allergy not fear and hysteria.

This does nothing to prevent the problem of peanut butter or oils on people's hands being transferred to objects such as door knobs, tables, chairs, materials, or other people. A child who is allergic can touch these objects and go into shock and die within minutes. I'm sorry, but I don't know of any other allergy (other than a bee sting, which gives slightly more warning and shouldn't be found daily in a school setting) that can cause death so quickly and unexpectedly.

In our school, the first thing children and staff are taught to do is wash their hands immediately upon entering the classroom. This is a requirement for our NAEYC accredidation, and is a basic public health concept. They also wash hands before and after eating, after toileting or grooming, and after using art materials. I have very few sick kids.

We ARE educating them. They bring individual snacks, are not allowed to share food, and we clean the tables and chairs after snack. We are not teaching the child that the world revolves around him, but that we care enough about him that we are willing to alter our environment to include him. Relationships matter more than what "we've always done." The mother feels awful that she is "putting us out," but the other parents have rushed to reassure her that they can handle it. It has actually enhanced our school community, because parents are thinking about other people more and more.

The ban on nuts, dairy, wheat and eggs is a backup to all the other things above, because it would only take one child with peanut butter on his hands getting on the side of a chair and me missing that spot with my Lysol wipe and the allergic child touching it before I'd be using the epi-pen. Let me tell you, I've never had to use it and I don't want to start now!!!

Children will survive without peanut butter for this fraction of the day. (They will also survive without McDonalds on the way to school, probably for a lot longer!)

 

[lostfaith]

I dont have a problem with them banning the peanut butter in school. I think my children can do without it until they come home, I do wonder just how much slips past into the school though. With moms like me who forget to buy bologna and have to make the quick last minute PBJ. Or for the moms who dont scrutinize the ingrediants and the peanut oil slips by them. Then what? Would these kids who ate the PBJ or the parent who sent it be charged with murder if the child with the allergy dies?

Like I said, I dont have a problem with banning the PB, my children will survive until they get home. I do believe it could be handled in a different way and not a total ban, but hey, whatever, it is just Peanut Butter, nothing to get so upset over.

My thing is...If PB is sooooooo deadly to these children, how in the world do there parents take them anywhere???? I would be worried about every little thing....like the grocery cart..Maybe the kid sitting in the cart before was eating mini Ritz PB crackers out of a little baggie. What about Church....Maybe the guy sitting behind you had PB toast for Breakfast and did not brush or wash his hands or face, and now he is sitting behind you coughing and sneezing, and soon you will be shaking his hand! Forget ever letting this child play in the balls at Mickey D's, or riding a ride at a carnival. It just goes on and on, all the dangerous places for this child with this allergy. The whole world can not be sanitized. In such a serious situation as this, no way would I count on others to protect my child. I would educate my child as best as I could. If that child was too young, then I would homeschool him until he was old enough to take resposibility for his own health situation. Sound like this peanut allergy is nothing to fool around with, and certainly not something I would count on others to monitor.


Just have to add, right now I am at work munching on a can of mix nuts, typing away, touching all the pens, folders, stapler, scissors, letter opener, toilet handle....you name it! Hope no one here has a peanut allergy. Just goes to show it can be anywhere and everywhere. The allergy sufferer must have to take responsibility and learn how to protect him/herself, from young on.

 

[angelmom]

My thing is...If PB is sooooooo deadly to these children, how in the world do there parents take them anywhere???? I would be worried about every little thing....like the grocery cart..Maybe the kid sitting in the cart before was eating mini Ritz PB crackers out of a little baggie. What about Church....Maybe the guy sitting behind you had PB toast for Breakfast and did not brush or wash his hands or face, and now he is sitting behind you coughing and sneezing, and soon you will be shaking his hand! Forget ever letting this child play in the balls at Mickey D's, or riding a ride at a carnival. It just goes on and on, all the dangerous places for this child with this allergy. The whole world can not be sanitized. In such a serious situation as this, no way would I count on others to protect my child. I would educate my child as best as I could. If that child was too young, then I would homeschool him until he was old enough to take resposibility for his own health situation. Sound like this peanut allergy is nothing to fool around with, and certainly not something I would count on others to monitor.


Just have to add, right now I am at work munching on a can of mix nuts, typing away, touching all the pens, folders, stapler, scissors, letter opener, toilet handle....you name it! Hope no one here has a peanut allergy. Just goes to show it can be anywhere and everywhere. The allergy sufferer must have to take responsibility and learn how to protect him/herself, from young on.

You are right...it is terrifying for these parents. The mom I know whose son is allergic said they have had to use the epi-pen in their own house b/c something they thought was safe turned out not to be. In one case it was something like the original Teddy Grahams that were safe, but the chocolate ones had peanut oil! (not really Teddy Grahams, I just made that up as an example.) There are layers of protection...education, keeping the allergen away whenever humanly possible, keeping the child isolated when the safety risk is high enough to outweigh the emotional toll, and the epi-pen as your last line of defense.

And while you are right that the allergy sufferer needs to educate him/herself about how to stay safe, what do you think the best suggestion would be for someone who works in your office? Even an educated adult could not protect himself from the invisible peanut dust/oil that is now everywhere. The choices would be to 1) ban peanut products from the office. 2) have the allergic person have all of their own stuff that no one else is allowed to touch without washing their hands or 3) ban the allergic person from working.

Do you want to pay unemployment for someone who can't work b/c of a completely manageable allergy? Do you want to have a long list of rules about handwashing and areas that you aren't allowed to touch? Wouldn't it just be easier to say, "We have a person in our community who is allergic to peanuts. Please help us keep the environment safe by keeping this area peanut free. Thanks."

 

[lostfaith]

You are right...it is terrifying for these parents. The mom I know whose son is allergic said they have had to use the epi-pen in their own house b/c something they thought was safe turned out not to be. In one case it was something like the original Teddy Grahams that were safe, but the chocolate ones had peanut oil! (not really Teddy Grahams, I just made that up as an example.) There are layers of protection...education, keeping the allergen away whenever humanly possible, keeping the child isolated when the safety risk is high enough to outweigh the emotional toll, and the epi-pen as your last line of defense.

And while you are right that the allergy sufferer needs to educate him/herself about how to stay safe, what do you think the best suggestion would be for someone who works in your office? Even an educated adult could not protect himself from the invisible peanut dust/oil that is now everywhere. The choices would be to 1) ban peanut products from the office. 2) have the allergic person have all of their own stuff that no one else is allowed to touch without washing their hands or 3) ban the allergic person from working.

Do you want to pay unemployment for someone who can't work b/c of a completely manageable allergy? Do you want to have a long list of rules about handwashing and areas that you aren't allowed to touch? Wouldn't it just be easier to say, "We have a person in our community who is allergic to peanuts. Please help us keep the environment safe by keeping this area peanut free. Thanks."

Geez, you make me feel like I am a potential killer because I ate some peanuts at work. Obviously no one I work with has this allergy, or I would not be eating them here, I would find another snack. Where I work, if we knew someone did, we would avoid having PB or peanuts around. But...I work in a Hotel.....What do you suggest we do about the Peanut Butter that we offer our guest with breakfast? Or, maybe we dont have a employee with a peanut allergy, but what about one of the many guest that come down to use our computer? Are you suggesting that the gov. should just ban peanuts period? Insist that any peanut production be halted forever? I am sure that would go over good. I can see this could get carried away very quickly.

 

[angelmom]

Geez, you make me feel like I am a potential killer because I ate some peanuts at work. Obviously no one I work with has this allergy, or I would not be eating them here, I would find another snack. Where I work, if we knew someone did, we would avoid having PB or peanuts around. But...I work in a Hotel.....What do you suggest we do about the Peanut Butter that we offer our guest with breakfast? Or, maybe we dont have a employee with a peanut allergy, but what about one of the many guest that come down to use our computer? Are you suggesting that the gov. should just ban peanuts period? Insist that any peanut production be halted forever? I am sure that would go over good. I can see this could get carried away very quickly.

Sorry! I didn't mean to make you feel that way. I was just using it as an example IF you worked in a place with someone who DID have a peanut allergy. NOT that you shouldn't be able to eat nuts. SO SORRY!!!

What I meant was, if someone at your work did have a nut allergy, what would be the best way to handle it. Obviously just being educated and careful aren't enough, as you made clear in your post.

I would assume that someone with this allergy doesn't stay in hotels for exactly that reason, and I wouldn't be surprised if someone came up with the idea for having a hotel line that was allergen free since this is becoming an issue. Just think, non-smoking rooms and airline flights are the norm now, but they used to be shocking. I can remember the reaction I got when I informed family and friends that we wouldn't be at Christmas dinner unless the smokers went outside (I was going to be either 9 months pg or have a few day old newborn baby). Now no one I know would even dream of smoking around an infant!

Times change, and I think as society becomes more educated about certain substances we will learn how to be safe without completely getting rid of a nutritious and inexpensive food source (not to mention yummy when mixed with chocolate!)

Sorry again! I did NOT mean to make you feel like I was attacking you, just using your post as a perfect example of what education cannot fix. Please forgive me.

 

[Betsy]

My stepson was diagnosed with severe a severe peanut allergy when he was a toddler. He is now 13 and has lived with the knowledge that he must question EVERY piece of food that he eats, where it came from, where it was manufactured, etc. He reads labels on everything. When he was too young to read, we would read the labels (and still do in case he missed something) and when his older siblings could read, they would look out for him also. His teachers have always been aware of his allergy; an Epipen is kept at the school for him in case he ever has a reaction. He NEVER has.

While I don't doubt he has a severe peanut allergy (and would never test it, of course), he has gone to school for 14 years now with kids who eat peanut butter in front of him (as well as chocolate M&Ms and Jelly Bellies and those good things he'll never be able to eat) but my point is, he's never been isolated from these kids. He knows to wash his hands before and after he eats. He knows never to eat a cookie that a friend's mother has made unless he knows FOR SURE that there are no nuts involved. In other words, he has always known the dangers and looks out for himself--he'll have to his whole life. Like I said, the teachers are aware, the school is ready to assist. His coaches have an Epipen at baseball games in case a parent unknowingly brings a snack with hidden nuts.

THAT SAID...He does not live with me. I have 4 year old twins who, if they could NOT eat peanut butter, I think they would starve. Peanut butter is eaten every day in my house. And sadly, I admit, I don't always scrub them down before my stepson comes over. With all the peanut butter eaten in this house, I've never seen him break out in a rash even. I'm not doubting the severity of his allergy, but I do question whether kids have to be in totally different rooms (or schools!) in order to survive. That seems ridiculous to me! Guess what--there are peanut butter eaters everywhere in this world. And unless he actually puts one in his mouth (or a small portion of one) he is not going to die! And IF somehow he does ingest a nut, there is always an Epipen nearby. THAT'S the solution, IMO. Have the child 1) read labels, 2) question ingredients when possible, 3) wash often, and 4) have medicine readily available.

Not isolation.