Search Warrants for MR's house and vehicles

[Ghostwheel]

So....for the second time, what is SS lab? I googled it and came up with stuff in India. Care to share with the rest of the class?

It would explain a lot if they sent the evidence to India for processing.....

 

[AnotherSetOfEyes]

So....for the second time, what is SS lab? I googled it and came up with stuff in India. Care to share with the rest of the class?

Best I can come up with is sample submission labs. Not sure if that is what was meant though. Lots of entries if you search with that.

 

[KateNY]

Best I can come up with is sample submission labs. Not sure if that is what was meant though. Lots of entries if you search with that.

BBM


United States Secret Service: Forensic Services
http://www.secretservice.gov/forensics.shtml

www.secretservice.gov

foremost forensics experts in the world re electronic communications

been called in for other cases that Ive seen on WS, ie Hailey Dunn, Karen Swift...

no linky, so just my :twocents:

 

[mijamawi]

It would explain a lot if they sent the evidence to India for processing.....

:floorlaugh:

Meh, it's one thing to send our computer support there. It's a whole other story to send our forensics there.

 

[mijamawi]

BBM


United States Secret Service: Forensic Services
http://www.secretservice.gov/forensics.shtml

www.secretservice.gov

foremost forensics experts in the world re electronic communications

been called in for other cases that Ive seen on WS, ie Hailey Dunn, Karen Swift...

no linky, so just my :twocents:

Ohhh duh, ok. So, do they have better microscopes than the FBI?

 

[ColdHands]

Colorado Kidnapping/Abduction Laws
http://kidnapping.uslegal.com/state-kidnapping-abduction-laws/colorado-kidnappingabduction-laws/

a person commits first degree kidnapping if s/he carries any person from one place to another using force; or persuades another to move; or imprisons or secrets any person with the intent to force the victim to make any concession or give up anything of value in order to secure release.

a person commits second degree kidnapping when s/he seizes and carries any person from one place to another, without his consent and without lawful authority; or s/he takes away any child below 18 years with intent to keep or conceal the child from his or her parent or guardian or with intent to sell, trade, or barter such child for consideration.

The kidnapping charges are then broken down by degree or "class".

What I find interesting is that on the house, trailer, outbuilding etc., the SW specifies First Degree Kidnapping, Class 1 This is the most serious of the Felony charges and carries a much harsher sentence. This is because it relates to whether the victim suffered bodily injury:

A person committing first degree kidnapping is guilty of a class 1 felony if the victim suffered bodily injury. However a person convicted of first degree kidnapping shall not be awarded death penalty if the person kidnapped was liberated alive prior to the conviction of the defendant.

Did LE already have a pretty good idea that Dylan had suffered harm? And why would they utilize this specific charge if this was some sort of blanket SW with no particular suspect/defendent in mind?

BBM IBM

So my question is (not directed at you, Lordeebee, just a general question) to what extent does the charge listed on the search warrant have to relate to charges pressed against an alleged perpetrator? How do they know what to even put on the search warrant?

 

[Ghostwheel]

The first quote from Mark in Tricia's post said:

"They are and yes they did...The question I asked investigators yesterday was.........Explain to me the fundamental difference in "being kidnapped"and "being abducted"......
If there was probable cause for 1 there there was for the other. Leading me to believe more could have been done in the first few days of Dylan's disappearance...."

BBM:Can anyone tell me how the BBM would mean the GBBM?

How does the difference (or sameness) in "being kidnapped" and "being abducted" lead someone to believe that more could be done in the first few days of Dylan's disappearance? (This is me not saying anything about the FIRST day)

Probable cause for both or either would not make any difference. Am I reading the quote wrong, somehow?

 

[ColdHands]

The first quote from Mark in Tricia's post said:
BBM:Can anyone tell me how the BBM would mean the GBBM?

How does the difference (or sameness) in "being kidnapped" and "being abducted" lead someone to believe that more could be done in the first few days of Dylan's disappearance? (This is me not saying anything about the FIRST day)

Probable cause for both or either would not make any difference. Am I reading the quote wrong, somehow?

Maybe this is the link. That use of the term kidnapped (which LE was apparently thinking as shown in the search warrant) vs abducted (required criteria)somehow prevented the Amber Alert?
http://www.durangoherald.com/articl...519520/0/FRONTPAGE/Mark-Redwine-knocks-search

Redwine said in an interview Friday with The Durango Herald that no Amber Alert was issued when Dylan first went missing Nov. 19 from the Vallecito area because the case didn’t meet the criteria for an alert.

Law-enforcement officers have to confirm a child has been abducted before issuing an alert, according to the U.S. Department of Justice Amber Alert website.

“I firmly believe that the most critical time was in the first day or two or three and that everything possible should have been done. I think that not enough was done in that time frame,” Mark Redwine said in the interview.

 

[scorekeeper]

The first quote from Mark in Tricia's post said:
BBM:Can anyone tell me how the BBM would mean the GBBM?

How does the difference (or sameness) in "being kidnapped" and "being abducted" lead someone to believe that more could be done in the first few days of Dylan's disappearance? (This is me not saying anything about the FIRST day)

Probable cause for both or either would not make any difference. Am I reading the quote wrong, somehow?

well, first that is Mark speak....so take it for whatever...

remember he didn't report Dylan as missing....he thought he would return or something....he took a nap and didn't really start "looking" for Dylan until about sunset....

next he will be saying they should have searched his house via search warrants in the first 24 hours

:banghead::banghead:

 

[Ghostwheel]

So my question is (not directed at you, Lordeebee, just a general question) to what extent does the charge listed on the search warrant have to relate to charges pressed against an alleged perpetrator? How do they know what to even put on the search warrant?

If you read the search warrants, they say "Evidence sought would be used in a subsequent criminal investigation for the charge of" whatever the charge they think it would be used for.

In this particular case, and I am guessing, they chose to use search warrants for kidnapping 1 for the house IN CASE the evidence led to Dylan's father, since that was the last place Dylan was known to be. If the last place he had been was someone's barn or his home in Colorado Springs or a church down the road, I believe they'd have done the same for that place.

I would also guess that since Mark was not concerned that Dylan was not home when he came back home, and since he waited until late that afternoon to mention it to LE, and even then did not report him missing but requested a wellness check (I still am not sure what that is), the next few days, at the minimum, were spent looking to see if he was at any friends houses or was walking around with another boy or called anyone. (home, friends, other family, etc), and that is why they waited for the search warrants.

If the father isn't panic stricken (I say that because Mark painted the picture of going to the Marshal's office and just asking if they'd seen Dylan) that he hasn't seen his son since 7:30 that morning, why would LE be? They might assume that, for Mark and Dylan, it wouldn't be unusual for Dylan to be gone for 8-9 hours before Mark would start looking for him.

JMO

 

[Ghostwheel]

Maybe this is the link. That use of the term kidnapped (which LE was apparently thinking as shown in the search warrant) vs abducted (required criteria)somehow prevented the Amber Alert?
http://www.durangoherald.com/articl...519520/0/FRONTPAGE/Mark-Redwine-knocks-search

Thank you for the link. My following post is not directed at you, it's just included with my thank you.

My problem is that MARK didn't think Dylan had been abducted or kidnapped or whatever that first day, and insisted the mail lady had seen Dylan walking around, so if the parent doesn't think abduction (or kidnapping), why would LE? Mark is telling them that Dylan took all his belongings and what kidnapper does that? Mark is telling them that Dylan's fishing pole is missing, what kidnapper would take that? From the beginning, Dylan was painted by Mark as a boy who may have wandered off to fish, or may have hitchhiked to see his friends.

Dylan's disappearance didn't meet the criteria for an Amber Alert, no matter the definition of abducted or kidnapped. One of the criteria is Sufficient Descriptive Information (must have enough information to believe that immediate broadcast to the public will enhance the efforts of law enforcement to locate the child and apprehend the suspect), and there wasn't any of that available. What were they going to say? There was no suspect, no vehicle, they didn't know what Dylan was wearing, where he could have disappeared from (the house, the road, the woods?) or when.

"Attention all states, look for a 13 year old blonde boy possibly wearing a black shirt and shorts or not, who has been missing since anywhere from 7:30am to 4:30pm from either his home, or the road or the woods or somewhere else in Vallecito or Bayfield, CO, and may be traveling in an unknown vehicle, or not, on any given highway or side road, or just walking with or without a fishing pole anyplace. And he might be wearing a hat or backpack or both." Also remember, there are no pictures on the roadway Amber Alert signs, and we aren't allowed to look at our cell phones when driving, so no abductor information means a sparse highway alert sign.

I seriously doubt a semantics issue is what kept an Amber Alert from being issued.

 

[Lordeebee]

Thank you for the link. My following post is not directed at you, it's just included with my thank you.

My problem is that MARK didn't think Dylan had been abducted or kidnapped or whatever that first day, and insisted the mail lady had seen Dylan walking around, so if the parent doesn't think abduction (or kidnapping), why would LE? Mark is telling them that Dylan took all his belongings and what kidnapper does that? Mark is telling them that Dylan's fishing pole is missing, what kidnapper would take that? From the beginning, Dylan was painted by Mark as a boy who may have wandered off to fish, or may have hitchhiked to see his friends.

Dylan's disappearance didn't meet the criteria for an Amber Alert, no matter the definition of abducted or kidnapped. One of the criteria is Sufficient Descriptive Information (must have enough information to believe that immediate broadcast to the public will enhance the efforts of law enforcement to locate the child and apprehend the suspect), and there wasn't any of that available. What were they going to say? There was no suspect, no vehicle, they didn't know what Dylan was wearing, where he could have disappeared from (the house, the road, the woods?) or when.

"Attention all states, look for a 13 year old blonde boy possibly wearing a black shirt and shorts or not, who has been missing since anywhere from 7:30am to 4:30pm from either his home, or the road or the woods or somewhere else in Vallecito or Bayfield, CO, and may be traveling in an unknown vehicle, or not, on any given highway or side road, or just walking with or without a fishing pole anyplace. And he might be wearing a hat or backpack or both." Also remember, there are no pictures on the roadway Amber Alert signs, and we aren't allowed to look at our cell phones when driving, so no abductor information means a sparse highway alert sign.

I seriously doubt a semantics issue is what kept an Amber Alert from being issued.

EXACTLY! I would bet LE is having the same thoughts (serious shaking of heads).

 

[Lordeebee]

AND releasing these (incomplete) search warrants was somehow supposed to prove that this made sense?

 

[Bayou Mistress]

AND releasing these (incomplete) search warrants was somehow supposed to prove that this made sense?

If I take MR's words at face value, he seems to think that the search warrant shows that there was a reasonable belief that Dylan was kidnapped and that the response from LE could have been different. He seems to also want people to ask better questions. Again, taking him at face value, he seems frustrated, which is a normal state for the parent of a missing child. It has been people commenting who attributed transparency to his actions. That is not something that MR himself said.

 

[aust amateur slueth]

If I take MR's words at face value, he seems to think that the search warrant shows that there was a reasonable belief that Dylan was kidnapped and that the response from LE could have been different. He seems to also want people to ask better questions. Again, taking him at face value, he seems frustrated, which is a normal state for the parent of a missing child. It has been people commenting who attributed transparency to his actions. That is not something that MR himself said.

IMO it spelt it out that LE had a reasonable belief of MR being the person responsible, ie either he was the kidnapper or MR arranged for someone else to kidnap Dylan.

 

[Bayou Mistress]

IMO it spelt it out that LE had a reasonable belief of MR being the person responsible, ie either he was the kidnapper or MR arranged for someone else to kidnap Dylan.

I can't even begin to see how you see it that way. This is LE's document indicating that they were looking for evidence of what happened to Dylan.

 

[Tennlyn]

IMO it spelt it out that LE had a reasonable belief of MR being the person responsible, ie either he was the kidnapper or MR arranged for someone else to kidnap Dylan.

I think this will turn out much like the Jennifer Ramsaran situation. After they arrested her husband, LE indicated that he'd been their suspect since he'd reported her missing in December. It just took them months to build the case. (He was never called a suspect by LE and they said he was cooperating.) LE usually 'knows' what happened fairly early in a case, the rest of the time is spent getting all the evidence lined up to 'prove' it to the jury. :moo:

Timeframe there was: Jen reported missing in mid-December, full search of the family home about a week later, body found at the end of February, and the arrest of the husband was made last week after the Sheriff's office received all the final forensic reports. :moo:

ETA: MSM report indicates he killed her in the family home. There was probably forensic evidence found, but not enough for an immediate arrest. MOO

 

[*Lash*]

In my opinion, it is interesting the items seized in the SW are not numbered.

 

[Money Girl]

IMO it spelt it out that LE had a reasonable belief of MR being the person responsible, ie either he was the kidnapper or MR arranged for someone else to kidnap Dylan.

Would the same reason not be listed on the SW for Elaine's house and any other+
search warrants served? Do you know who else was served with SWs?

 

[*Lash*]

Would the same reason not be listed on the SW for Elaine's house and any other+
search warrants served? Do you know who else was served with SWs?

In my opinion, looking at the wording used in both parents SW's would be a reasonable comparison. However, we do not know if LE asked EH and MR not to make these warrants public. LE did not make an official request to have them sealed, but it doesn't mean LE didn't ask them to keep these private. However for whatever the reason, LE did not want to release the warrants to the media as stated in MSM articles. I understand if EH chooses not to make her copies public.

Something else we do not know is what LE took from MR's house when he allowed them to search w/o a warrant. This was mentioned earlier in the thread and suggested that MR would have received a receipt for items seized. Therefore, I'm not certain the items listed in the SW are the only items seized from MR's property.