Season 2 Episode 5

[missy1974]

Released on October 19, 2018 on Netflix

 

[missy1974]

KZ was advised that it was unlikely that there would be enough blood (or degraded) in the RAV4 for any test that could date the blood.

We hear an interview SA did with Emily Matesic from 2005 about the blood in his sink and it being cleaned up later.

We see KZ taking the bathroom sink out of the trailer, or actually the guy that's with her lol

Uggh, KZ was at the yard and Carla talks to KZ on the phone and tells her that Brendan is going to be released on bond while the State appealed. I had actually forgotten about this The State filed an emergency appeal. We know how this ends...

Back to the blood in the car. Talking about the flakes of blood!!! (I have wondered about these flakes!!) KZ said she (Culhane) used tweezers to pick up the flakes. Showing how blood is absorbed into carpet and drying onto the fibers. Showing how blood can be pulled out of the sink with a dropper while it was still wet. Doing different tests in KZ's RAV4.

KZ talks about how the defense didn't call in any experts and it would have been easy for them to do, also not being able to show how someone else could have done it (overcoming Denny rule).

KZ rules out Radandt.

McCrary (former FBI). 70-80% of murder victims, it was someone they know. She gets into Ryan Hillegas, how he moved in after this happened. How he is the one providing the investigator's with all the intimate details of her life. Show's some testimony from RH, which I believe is from preliminary hearings. Talks about the key... says they have made repeated efforts to talk to him, he doesn't respond. KZ talks about the parking light, and how RH provided an explaination for it, but KZ was unable to verify, with the insurance company, and how the missing person poster had no detail about the damage. She makes a snarky remark about being sorry if she offends anyone (in regards to RH), but she is offended that she has a client in jail and everyone's feelings are hurt.

Brendan's case goes to the 7th Circuit court.

 

[TheyDontSee]

I'm eyeing RH hard.

 

[Karinna]

I'm eyeing RH hard.

Yes definitely, among two others as well IMO.
Who were the deerhunters in those families?
Cut marks on the bone noted by KZ and her investigation. And didn't BoD & ST go hunting the day TH disappeared?
She did suggest anyone who butchered deer after killing one would of had the necessary tools to dismember, along those lines anyway, and i totally agree, and was thinking & posted about that ages ago, i think the info. from one of KZ's PC motions about those bones.

 

[LifeCitizen]

KZ did a live commentary on this episode. #askzellner

Did anyone catch that?

 

[missy1974]

KZ did a live commentary on this episode. #askzellner

Did anyone catch that?

Kathleen Zellner will be providing live commentary tomorrow on ⁦@MakingaMurderer Part 2, Episode 5 tomorrow, Tuesday, 10 AM PST/ 1 PM EST. Watch along #AskZellner ⁦@lifeafterten⁩ ⁦@michellemalkin⁩ ⁦@MakingAMurderer⁩

looks like it will be tomorrow! I will be at work, if anyone follows along with her, do share!

 

[proudfootz]

I paid attention to part of the live Q&A, but there were so many questions I couldn't read them all.

Someone on TTM made an especial note of this response:

 

[proudfootz]

McCrary (former FBI). 70-80% of murder victims, it was someone they know. She gets into Ryan Hillegas, how he moved in after this happened. How he is the one providing the investigator's with all the intimate details of her life. Show's some testimony from RH, which I believe is from preliminary hearings. Talks about the key... says they have made repeated efforts to talk to him, he doesn't respond. KZ talks about the parking light, and how RH provided an explanation for it, but KZ was unable to verify, with the insurance company, and how the missing person poster had no detail about the damage. She makes a snarky remark about being sorry if she offends anyone (in regards to RH), but she is offended that she has a client in jail and everyone's feelings are hurt.

RSBM BBM

One thing that struck me about the tail light was that it was not part of the 'missing endangered' flyer, witnesses recall TH's RAV4 as being 'like new' which would seem to rule out damaged light, no evidence TH made insurance claim for broken tail light as RH claimed but she did make a claim about something as minor as a windshield wiper!

I'm liking the theory that the tail light was damaged driving the RAV4 on to the Avery property.

ETA: All MOO

 

[missy1974]

I paid attention to part of the live Q&A, but there were so many questions I couldn't read them all.

Someone on TTM made an especial note of this response:

I just read all the questions/answers on twitter!

Kathleen Zellner (@ZellnerLaw) | Twitter

Some interesting answers in there for sure ;-)

 

[Saul Vesalot]

I just read all the questions/answers on twitter!

Kathleen Zellner (@ZellnerLaw) | Twitter

Some interesting answers in there for sure ;-)

I think the most interesting one is where she said there were 2 more piles of human bones in the Manitowoc land. Perhaps she means pieces? But if piles is the right word, then whoahhhhh.

I really wish I had a better and more convenient method of transcribing twitter things. Her answers to the questions should really be compiled somewhere on here.

 

[missy1974]

I think the most interesting one is where she said there were 2 more piles of human bones in the Manitowoc land. Perhaps she means pieces? But if piles is the right word, then whoahhhhh.

I really wish I had a better and more convenient method of transcribing twitter things. Her answers to the questions should really be compiled somewhere on here.

I still haven't finished watching Saul, I will try to find some time tomorrow. I did see that tweet and thought it was interesting as well, I think somewhere on here it is mentioned, but I still don't know what that is all about (I think it's in the 10th episode). If you find more info, please post for me! In one of her filings in the last year, there were notes from Eisenberg in one of them, I am assuming it's related to those notes.

 

[proudfootz]

IIRC Zellner points out that Eisenberg identified these far flung bones as human - not 'posssibly human' as KK lied to the jury.

 

[missy1974]

IIRC Zellner points out that Eisenberg identified these far flung bones as human - not 'posssibly human' as KK lied to the jury.

Which bones? the pelvic bones? She testified that they were suspected possible human bones. She was very careful in her wording during her testimony.

I still haven't been able to go back and see what Zellner is talking about with "other" possible human bones at the Manitowoc County quarry.

 

[Karinna]

RSBM BBM

One thing that struck me about the tail light was that it was not part of the 'missing endangered' flyer, witnesses recall TH's RAV4 as being 'like new' which would seem to rule out damaged light, no evidence TH made insurance claim for broken tail light as RH claimed but she did make a claim about something as minor as a windshield wiper!

I'm liking the theory that the tail light was damaged driving the RAV4 on to the Avery property.

ETA: All MOO

I agree, the nonsense from RH about the tail light is a lie, IMO

 

[Karinna]

I think the most interesting one is where she said there were 2 more piles of human bones in the Manitowoc land. Perhaps she means pieces? But if piles is the right word, then whoahhhhh.

I really wish I had a better and more convenient method of transcribing twitter things. Her answers to the questions should really be compiled somewhere on here.

That part about too many bones was touched upon in one of the episodes in MAM2. I binge watched so can't remember exactly which one atm. Will have to re watch and take notes.

 

[Saul Vesalot]

That part about too many bones was touched upon in one of the episodes in MAM2. I binge watched so can't remember exactly which one atm. Will have to re watch and take notes.

Yep. Part 10, between 30 and 35 minutes in. I took notes on that episode. There were A LOT of bone fragments. I love how in court Kratz tried to diminish the abilities of his own athnropologist when her opinions contradicted his narrative. "What are possible bones? That could mean anything!" Which is sort of true, but these other bones are not generally referred to as "possible human bones."

 

[proudfootz]

Which bones? the pelvic bones? She testified that they were suspected possible human bones. She was very careful in her wording during her testimony.

I still haven't been able to go back and see what Zellner is talking about with "other" possible human bones at the Manitowoc County quarry.

I may have to watch the episode again, but as I recall we were shown documents from the investigation that characterized the bones as human (Zellner was not talking about the testimony that may have been different to what the written documents show).

 

[missy1974]

I may have to watch the episode again, but as I recall we were shown documents from the investigation that characterized the bones as human (Zellner was not talking about the testimony that may have been different to what the written documents show).

I had to do some searching.

We find Dr. Leslie Eisenberg’s Bone Evidence Worksheet (STATE_1_9279-81) as Exhibit 3 (page 28) attached to this motion: http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...Recent-Examination-of-the-Dassey-Computer.pdf

Here is a screenshot from MaM2: https://i.imgur.com/S0k4PhU.jpg

The above screenshot shows coordinates, which have been mapped here (the map is current, those poles or whatever they are, were not there back in 2005): https://i.imgur.com/Mynxpgn.jpg

I had bookmarked this worksheet a few months back when someone posted it on reddit, whoever made it, used the above Bone Evidence Worksheet, the CASO report, and whatever other reports to make the spreadsheet, which also includes which bones were returned to the family.

 

[e0nyx]

The blood flakes... there seriously is something hinky about that. But no one would have known SA was going to bleed into the sink. That halted me but then I started to think... maybe this is when the key was planted and whoever just happened upon the blood in the sink (if this is how the blood was put in TH's car) - it was a bonus.

 

[proudfootz]

Yes, the blood flakes is pretty odd. It does seem to point toward blood that was deposited somewhere else and transported to the RAV4.