Second autopsy and other objects with touch DNA

[voynich]

my other thought is that Mr Intruder ran a tri-athlon,first swimming through a beaver dam,riding 20 miles on a bike and then finishing up with running to the R's house.But oops!! that darn pesky beaver fur was still on him..

hehe.

Now that you put it this way, unless the IDI had a beaver fur coat, beaver gloves, fur cap or some similar item, it probably came from the R's and the R's disposed of that item.

Or a pet beavor

 

[voynich]

Exactly! A nine year old and his "friend" wouldn't have enough knowledge to cover his tracks.

B + F wack JB, friend leaves. Parents come down stairs sees B w/ JB and they then decide to stage.

 

[JMO8778]

yes,beavers live in water,and while they do come on shore briefly to get materials to build their dams with,it's much more likely the fur came from a man-made article that had beaver fur on it.

 

[JMO8778]

I've also considered a BDI scenario,but I just can't get past Patsy's guilty behavior enough to think he may have strangled JB or inflicted the head injury (or both).

 

[SeekingJana]

How many murder cases are there with all of the above, minus touch DNA? For that matter, how many parents did all of the above to their daughter, minus R's?

Wellll, that was my point, exactly.
This has never been a DNA case, will never be a DNA case, and probably cannot be "legally solved" for a variety of reasons, mostly crimescene contanimation by family ( perp) DNA, and the fact that many people's prime suspect is now deceased.

I've made peace with the fact that legal justice probably cannot be delivered. It took years, but I accept that Boulder PD did not have the training or resources to deal with devious, lying parents or one parent and the resources their money bought them.

The final lightbulb moment for me came with the murder of Sandra Cantu in CA. A female with a small daughter of her own is in jail awaiting trial for rape with a foreign object and murder.
I wish no children ever had to die, but Sandra's case has shed quite a lot of light upon female sexual abusers, some of whom do get caught when they murder because they didn't have the money to " lawyer up" immediately or go on CNN crying about the child's murder and stridently informing the public that " There's a killer out there. Hold your babies close".
Maybe one day I will learn how not to hate JonBenet's mother.:furious:

 

[JMO8778]

I do wonder if they will declare Patsy as the killer,though.But then there is JR's part in it..

 

[Ames]

B + F wack JB, friend leaves. Parents come down stairs sees B w/ JB and they then decide to stage.

But how would you explain Burke asking..."What did you find?", on the 911 call, after hearing Patsy say that she had found "something"..the ransom note?

 

[voynich]

But how would you explain Burke asking..."What did you find?", on the 911 call, after hearing Patsy say that she had found "something"..the ransom note?

Assuming that is the case, maybe he thought they found JB

 

[Ames]

Assuming that is the case, maybe he thought they found JB

But in your scenario, Burke and friend hit JB, the friend leaves, and the parents come down to find Burke with JB, and then the staging begins. So, in your scenario...Burke would KNOW that JB was dead, so how could he have thought that they had "found" her? It's late, so maybe I am just not getting what you are trying to say.

 

[voynich]

But in your scenario, Burke and friend hit JB, the friend leaves, and the parents come down to find Burke with JB, and then the staging begins. So, in your scenario...Burke would KNOW that JB was dead, so how could he have thought that they had "found" her? It's late, so maybe I am just not getting what you are trying to say.

Hi, I should say in this scenario What did you find?" I was thinking that B + F staged the crime scene. Doesn't explain fiber but would explain DNA.

 

[DeeDee249]

Hi, I should say in this scenario he was wondering whether his parents found something "additional" than what he expected.

I see what you mean, but if that had happened, wouldn't BR be a little more "jumpy", scared, etc.? He may not have known he'd KILLED his sister, but he'd have had to know he hurt her. He took "distancing" to almost a supernatural level if his behavior after the fact was an indication.
As much as I can imagine parents staging that accident to look like a murder/kidnapping by an intruder, I can't see them just blowing off the death of their daughter (as far as keeping that event from BR that night) to spare him the knowledge that he'd killed her. They'd be furious, simply out of their minds with rage and grief. At him. I don't know if they'd have been able to pull it off.

 

[voynich]

I see what you mean, but if that had happened, wouldn't BR be a little more "jumpy", scared, etc.? He may not have known he'd KILLED his sister, but he'd have had to know he hurt her. He took "distancing" to almost a supernatural level if his behavior after the fact was an indication.
As much as I can imagine parents staging that accident to look like a murder/kidnapping by an intruder, I can't see them just blowing off the death of their daughter (as far as keeping that event from BR that night) to spare him the knowledge that he'd killed her. They'd be furious, simply out of their minds with rage and grief. At him. I don't know if they'd have been able to pull it off.

I do agree. I guess then w/RDI whether you find PR only or PR + JR. IF I were JR and PRDI, I'd turn her in.

 

[DeeDee249]

I do agree. I guess then w/RDI whether you find PR only or PR + JR. IF I were JR and PRDI, I'd turn her in.

Maybe not if you knew you'd been abusing her. Then you might very well help cover it up.
Remember there is also JAR to consider, with or without BR.

 

[Ravyn]

I have to agree you can't take JAR out of this cause if he killed JB wouldn't JR protect him as well..And also he wanted forgiveness for the killer and IMO I still don't think he would feel this way for PR...

 

[BBB167893]

I do agree. I guess then w/RDI whether you find PR only or PR + JR. IF I were JR and PRDI, I'd turn her in.

Again, it's easy to say you'd turn her in. But think about it: you've just lost JB, and if PR goes to prison, she'll most likely die there. So in a sense, you've killed her too. And your son will hate you.

 

[DeeDee249]

I think both parents acted very much with the though of the impact this whole thing would have on BR if one or both of them were arrested for the death of his sister. So when I think about the mind-set needed to stage this crime on your own child, I also think about how much they wanted to spare themselves for the surviving child. Adrenaline is a wondrous thing.It makes us capable of things we'd never be able to do without it.

 

[BBB167893]

A few things for my buddy voynich:

1) If you'd like to pursue the PR+JR fibers issue, I'm game.

2) There was someone here who believed that BR and a friend were responsible. If memory serves, Lou Smit mentioned one of Burke's friends as a POI: Doug Stine.

3) There are other possible reasons for JR not turning PR in, even if he did know.

4) Sorry about my response to your suggestion about the Santa experiment. Last week was truly the Week from Hell. Now that I think about it a little more, I can see it might have merit. Even assuming that it didn't happen to JB, it strikes me that it could happen to other little children. Anything that lessens that risk, I say go for it.

 

[voynich]

A few things for my buddy voynich:

1) If you'd like to pursue the PR+JR fibers issue, I'm game.

2) There was someone here who believed that BR and a friend were responsible. If memory serves, Lou Smit mentioned one of Burke's friends as a POI: Doug Stine.

3) There are other possible reasons for JR not turning PR in, even if he did know.

4) Sorry about my response to your suggestion about the Santa experiment. Last week was truly the Week from Hell. Now that I think about it a little more, I can see it might have merit. Even assuming that it didn't happen to JB, it strikes me that it could happen to other little children. Anything that lessens that risk, I say go for it.

I have waited a long time for this my little green friend.

1-4 numbered like the LLRN lol

1) hmmmm sounds seductive
2) Wasn't Doug Stein like really young? I was thinking BDI + young adult, perhaps a 3-way mutual friend, BR+JB
3) yeah, other than the 'sexual abuse' I wonder whether PR could reasonably rely on JR to keep quiet over the years.
4) I don't know what most 'normal' kids would do if asked by a friendly stranger at 6 y/o. The least JB needed to do was either unlock the door at an earlier time or give a stranger a house key, etc. JB differs from a lot of kids in that she interacted w/ lots of adult strangers as a beauty queen. Other parents could give very stern warnings not to talk to any adult strangers or open the door for any stranger.

There are a couple of stories of preteens finding love with like a 40 y/o on the internet, and meeting for sex.

 

[DeeDee249]

I thought DS was older than BR.

 

[voynich]

I thought DS was older than BR.

But not a teen or adult I can't imagine a preteen or kid doing all this.