Senator Al Franken accused of unwanted kissing/groping

[TMAN2014]

Due Process Clause

"....nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law...."

http://www.heritage.org/constitution/#!/amendments/14/essays/170/due-process-clause

"Both the Fifth Amendment and the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution prohibit governmental deprivations of "life, liberty, or property, without due process of law." The Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment serves three distinct functions in modern constitutional doctrine: "First, it incorporates [against the States] specific protections defined in the Bill of Rights....Second, it contains a substantive component, sometimes referred to as ‘substantive due process.'...Third, it is a guarantee of fair procedure, sometimes referred to as ‘procedural due process.'..." Daniels v. Williams (1986) (Stevens, J., concurring)."

 

[TMAN2014]

I wonder sometimes if people believe in the Freedoms granted under our Constitution, and the repercussions of giving up these freedoms. I don't think all of us think it through what it means to give up Due Process. We live in a country where you are PRESUMED INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY (unlike a place like North Korea or Cuba). If you don't like that concept, then some day the accusation might be against you and you will learn real fast about the value of Due Process.

 

[human]

What is locker room talk then? I am so confused as to what is acceptable. Dating 14 year old girls is OK? Pussy grabbing is OK and ogling 15 year old girls who are naked in a beauty pageant is OK, but Franken is not OK?

 

[scmom]

Al Franken Has Been Sitting on Jokes for a Decade. Now He’s Ready to Tell Them.

But as the attacks caused Franken to bleed support from women voters, he saw that his explanations weren’t working. “I learned that campaigns have their own rules, their own laws of physics, and that if I wasn’t willing to accept that, I would never get to be a senator.” And so Franken took a deep breath and told a little white lie: “I’m sorry.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/29/books/review/al-franken-giant-of-the-senate.html

 

[human]

Al Franken Has Been Sitting on Jokes for a Decade. Now He’s Ready to Tell Them.

But as the attacks caused Franken to bleed support from women voters, he saw that his explanations weren’t working. “I learned that campaigns have their own rules, their own laws of physics, and that if I wasn’t willing to accept that, I would never get to be a senator.” And so Franken took a deep breath and told a little white lie: “I’m sorry.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/29/books/review/al-franken-giant-of-the-senate.html

Too bad a man who is able to get along with others has serious harrassment issues.

I found Lindsay Graham’s joke funny even though I adore Puerto Rico and wish the UN would declare it a humanitarian crisis.

I love humor. I loved his Limbaugh book. I never knew of the horrible rape jokes.

Creative people are a different bunch. If you read the Agony and the Ecstasy or about the Impressionists or Andy Warhol or Winslow Homer or Leonard Cohen, for instance. Or the Beatles. Or Elvis. They are intense and push boundaries.

Out there sex has been a part of their lives.

Then there are the entitled, The rich and famous who think they are supposed to have anything they want. Women as possessions just like a fancy car they can own and push to the limits.

 

[scmom]

State Auditor Rebecca Otto and state Rep. Erin Murphy issued statements saying their fellow Democrat should lead by example and step down. Otto calls Franken a friend, but says “we can’t have a double standard.”

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2017/11/17/al-franken-sexual-harassment-reaction/

 

[bluesneakers]

I wonder sometimes if people believe in the Freedoms granted under our Constitution, and the repercussions of giving up these freedoms. I don't think all of us think it through what it means to give up Due Process. We live in a country where you are PRESUMED INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY (unlike a place like North Korea or Cuba). If you don't like that concept, then some day the accusation might be against you and you will learn real fast about the value of Due Process.

But that's only in court, for legal charges. Not everyone is held to the same standards in the private world. I don't like the concept of people harassing and assaulting women and continuing to be promoted or movie deals or higher rank just because the accusations wouldn't hold up in a court of law or because the statute of limitations has passed.

 

[simba16]

Due Process Clause

"....nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law...."

http://www.heritage.org/constitution/#!/amendments/14/essays/170/due-process-clause

"Both the Fifth Amendment and the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution prohibit governmental deprivations of "life, liberty, or property, without due process of law." The Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment serves three distinct functions in modern constitutional doctrine: "First, it incorporates [against the States] specific protections defined in the Bill of Rights....Second, it contains a substantive component, sometimes referred to as ‘substantive due process.'...Third, it is a guarantee of fair procedure, sometimes referred to as ‘procedural due process.'..." Daniels v. Williams (1986) (Stevens, J., concurring)."

What is your point?

 

[FinallyRegistered]

State Auditor Rebecca Otto and state Rep. Erin Murphy issued statements saying their fellow Democrat should lead by example and step down. Otto calls Franken a friend, but says “we can’t have a double standard.”

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2017/11/17/al-franken-sexual-harassment-reaction/

Yes, they are right, we can't have a double standard. Hopefully all of the people who sexually abuse/harass lead by example and step down.

 

[human]

The myth of the bumbling man

http://theweek.com/articles/737056/myth-male-bumbler

 

[jjenny]

But that's only in court, for legal charges. Not everyone is held to the same standards in the private world. I don't like the concept of people harassing and assaulting women and continuing to be promoted or movie deals or higher rank just because the accusations wouldn't hold up in a court of law or because the statute of limitations has passed.

There are serious consequences outside of court too. People can lose their jobs and reputation. But yet we should just accept all the accusations as factual?

 

[human]

The myth of the bumbling man

http://theweek.com/articles/737056/myth-male-bumbler

 

[human]

Yes, they are right, we can't have a double standard. Hopefully all of the people who sexually abuse/harass lead by example and step down.

Gov. Dayton of MN is a fabulous person, I assume. It would be good for him to appoint a replacement. There are plenty of fine Minnesotans. Minnesota is a very clean state politically with little corruption.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Yes, they are right, we can't have a double standard. Hopefully all of the people who sexually abuse/harass lead by example and step down.

Hmmmm.... so what happens when the entirety of Congress resigns en masse?[emoji848]

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[human]

Hmmmm.... so what happens when the entirety of Congress resigns en masse?[emoji848]

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There might be some such as some of the women?

 

[rosemadderlake]

I wonder sometimes if people believe in the Freedoms granted under our Constitution, and the repercussions of giving up these freedoms. I don't think all of us think it through what it means to give up Due Process. We live in a country where you are PRESUMED INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY (unlike a place like North Korea or Cuba). If you don't like that concept, then some day the accusation might be against you and you will learn real fast about the value of Due Process.

An individual who intentionally makes false accusations against another with the express purpose of damaging the person's reputation may be subject to a variety of punitive sanctions as permitted by law. Because laws vary by state, civil remedies may differ and are are subject to limitations as imposed by state, federal and local municipalities.

https://legalbeagle.com/8515606-can-someone-making-false-accusation.html

Tman you are absolutely right. I have no doubt whatsoever that each and every woman in the recent wave of allegations is well aware of the consequences of a false allegation.

 

[jjenny]

Seems that a lot of these allegations, you can't prove anything and you can't actually disprove anything either. So how would either side win a lawsuit?

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

There might be some such as some of the women?

Maybe, but i wouldn't hold my breath. It's certainly less common, but men experience sexual harassment and assault as well.

Each*year, according to an estimate in a literature review, roughly 19 to 31 percent of male college students experience*some kind of*unwanted sexual contact, and researchers say the vast majority of that is perpetrated by women. These men's experiences usually aren't as horrific as those of women who are assaulted, but they represent a clear, and mostly hidden, problem. They also contradict standard assumptions and cultural scripts about male aggression and female passivity.

Cindy Struckman-Johnson, a*psychology professor at the University of South Dakota, has studied male victims of sexual assault since 1985. Studies showing widespread sexual coercion and assault by women against men, on college campuses and elsewhere, have trickled in consistently for decades, but they haven't entered the public discussion of sexual violence, she explains. "It's so contrary to the stereotypes of female behavior," Struckman-Johnson says.*

https://psmag.com/news/women-sexually-assault-men-92099

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/media-spotlight/201505/when-men-face-sexual-harassment

There are a number of cases involving female on male workplace sexual harassment that have resulted in significant awards for the male employee. These include instances of retaliation for refusing sexual advances, unwelcome touching and caressing, and being subjected to offensive sexual comments and jokes.**

https://www.plbsmh.com/yes-men-can-be-sexually-harassed-in-the-workplace/

the CDC’s nationally representative*data revealed that over one year, men and women were equally likely to experience nonconsensual sex, and most male victims reported female perpetrators. Over their lifetime, 79 percent of men who were “made to penetrate” someone else (a form of rape, in the view of most researchers) reported female perpetrators. Likewise, most men who experienced sexual coercion and unwanted sexual contact had female perpetrators.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/...y-women-is-more-common-than-previously-known/

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[scmom]

It's pretty bad when it gets to the point that it feels everyone should wear their own personal body camera...or something.

 

[human]

Maybe, but i wouldn't hold my breath. It's certainly less common, but men experience sexual harassment and assault as well.

Each*year, according to an estimate in a literature review, roughly 19 to 31 percent of male college students experience*some kind of*unwanted sexual contact, and researchers say the vast majority of that is perpetrated by women. These men's experiences usually aren't as horrific as those of women who are assaulted, but they represent a clear, and mostly hidden, problem. They also contradict standard assumptions and cultural scripts about male aggression and female passivity.

Cindy Struckman-Johnson, a*psychology professor at the University of South Dakota, has studied male victims of sexual assault since 1985. Studies showing widespread sexual coercion and assault by women against men, on college campuses and elsewhere, have trickled in consistently for decades, but they haven't entered the public discussion of sexual violence, she explains. "It's so contrary to the stereotypes of female behavior," Struckman-Johnson says.*

https://psmag.com/news/women-sexually-assault-men-92099

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/media-spotlight/201505/when-men-face-sexual-harassment

There are a number of cases involving female on male workplace sexual harassment that have resulted in significant awards for the male employee. These include instances of retaliation for refusing sexual advances, unwelcome touching and caressing, and being subjected to offensive sexual comments and jokes.**

https://www.plbsmh.com/yes-men-can-be-sexually-harassed-in-the-workplace/

the CDC’s nationally representative*data revealed that over one year, men and women were equally likely to experience nonconsensual sex, and most male victims reported female perpetrators. Over their lifetime, 79 percent of men who were “made to penetrate” someone else (a form of rape, in the view of most researchers) reported female perpetrators. Likewise, most men who experienced sexual coercion and unwanted sexual contact had female perpetrators.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/...y-women-is-more-common-than-previously-known/

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I don’t doubt this info but how does a man get forced into an erection?