Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #5

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She had already made arrangements to go. Reserved the car, stolen a gun, talked to Darryl about the gas cans. IMO the contact after May 26 was her manipulating him again..apologizing, maybe finding out his schedule for the next few days.
You don't initiate a call to someone multiple times, eventually speaking for an hour at 3am to say I still hate you, don't come to my house to a woman a 1,000 miles away . IMO

I doubt he knew she was coming. I think it was a surprise. But the contact/manipulation was enough that when she did show up he didn't throw her out. Didn't call the cops. She did like she'd done for many months, turned up the sex knowing -like he said in the call, I'm addicted, I'll get pissed but I always take you back

There is no evidence who did the actual talking in that long call or what the topic was. It could have been Travis reaming Jodi for doing yet another heinous thing.
 
Quote Originally Posted by pocketaccent
If they had sex on June 4th, JA raped Travis IMO. He didn't want her there and he was scared. Female-male rape is different from male-female rape. Rape doesn't have to be violent and yes photos can be taken during and yes the man can be aroused. JMO.

Agreed. Women can be aroused during rape as well.

I apologize for length of this post, hope some of you stick with it, feel free to make your own call.

Thank you, I have been saying this for a while.. I'm sorry, but Cruella could not have disguised her psychosis when she killed him, Travis knew from the moment she barged in there. As much as he cajoled her, he wasn't totally cognitively unaware. He was mislead and naive. Which is how she suckered him in. He didn't value her presence there, for the sake of sex or anything else. He mentioned a date with some 19 year old from his church - that he was looking forward to - post Lisa convo. I think his mind started to process the shock of seeing her there as soon as she arrived though. Those ‘murder photo momentos’ say much (and perhaps she meant to keep them or transfer them). She can't 'erradicate' her movements when there is that much mental or nervous/excited energy pumping through her veins. I think it's quite obvious her body language was highly predatory and erratic that day - more than usual - full psychosis. There is just so much neurological activity that you can control when your mind is that disturbed. She is not a master of disguise. She is a psychopath; they DO feel a rush, to get to that expected moment. And she premeditated for quite some time.

Having a rape victim’s dating history brought up is one of those inappropriate manifestations during ‘an accusation.’ Anything can be brought up to insinuate dishonesty or paint them the '🤬🤬🤬🤬' - for simply having a dating history (perhaps even maintaining some form of agreeable contact between both parties). I understand we don't have much of a basis for how to perceive rape victims (until very recently – rape culture on campus being the best example from young women), let alone male rape survivors. I mean, it’s not like anyone’s ever encouraged to discuss ‘their rape’ at these institutions. Their job is to keep the money coming. Athletes, donors applicants, etc etc, these people expect a level of discretion. As for men, the most publicized case we’ve ever had was to the Catholic church and the male victims who spoke out about it years later.

Anyway, many of the survivors will tell you, the only reason they didn’t end up (strangled? choked? unconscious? dead?) is because they felt their body had to ‘comply’ - to avoid the apparent violence of their rapist(s).
75% of all rapes are either date or ‘acquaintance-rape.’ These people know what’s going on, at best the primal violence has an effect. Silence or going along with it buys them time, their body possibly staying in a piece, etc. etc. Your survival instincts do kick in with adrenaline. They get what they want, their rage will subside, and then they’ll leave you alone. That is not always true. That’s just how the mind responds to the trauma.

I don't know why Travis didn't call the police as soon as he saw her. Perhaps he was hoping 'she would go away.' Or perhaps he wasn't 100% sure she wouldn't just sneak up on him one day and kill him anyway, or someone he loved. His house wasn't secure; he had the blasted doggy door, etc.

I don't care if the guy enjoyed sex. Or hated himself for having sex, with her or anyone else. I see a guy in those photos that realizes he has to go along to avoid something wicked. I think he knew, he wasn’t the type of person to get caught up in a shouting match. He took the time to absorb his environment, he just never counteracted with that awareness. He’s the type of ‘victim,’ that was expecting for her to leave him alone after her ‘excitement’ abated. Either way, I see duress in those photos.

Side note:
Psychologically, I don't think male rape is all that different from female rape at all.. Women feel just as discomforted discussing this topic and emotionally scar/suppress just as the men do (again, rape culture opened up the conversation a bit more recently). But you will notice one thing, that still has changed very little nationwide for them. There is a lot of self-defeat that comes with this territory. This has nothing to do with gender at all. I’ve never met a young woman feel anything less than frightened and/or demoralized for being able to confide in me that someone violated her mind. At least the once, I was told she was date-raped twice. Once for breaking up with one guy, the second because she felt "she was too good for him." Children have that adverse emotional response as well, perhaps it's even worse as they are still wiring. There is some lifetime PTSD, regardless of whether or not it was systemic, I think we know the research out there for this says as much. A rape victim's ability to move forward simply depends on the individual. It is HIGHLY under-reported by women anyhow, we do NOT have proper statistics or stories to judge from. Police precincts will also underreport. Either way women will say all the same, they feel shame (one of the components involved is often self-guilt - especially in certain cultures).
 
But don't you think it's possible the short calls from her were voicemails...and he called her back to tear a strip off her, just as he did May 26?

Hi higherlove

Based on the pattern of their toxic relationship, I truly don't. He told his best friend about the May 26 argument. The friend asked if he was afraid. Travis said "no she's a psycho but she's harmless."
I suspect she called, he saw her number and returned her calls. She's a sociopath. Not many people have the tools to deal with such highly manipulative people. Once he calls I'm guessing she either starts babbling about some made up problem she needs his help with or turns up the flattery . Maybe phone sex? Maybe she heard enough from asking him questions to satisfy herself that if she were to go through with her plan that he'd be home, not out of town or have guests for some reason.
 
Great post, well thought through. It corrects the extremely sexist notion I've seen upthread that TA couldn't have been raped by Jodi 'cos guys don't get raped by women. TA evidently behaved much as one would expect a victim of domestic violence and/or PTSD and/or a life-threatening situation would behave.

On a sort-of related topic....Some posters seem not to be aware that TA was in the habit of NOT responding to JA's texts. This had been going on for a long time.

Thank you, I apologize, I actually had to edit. I type in Microsoft Word and ended up pasting my 'draft,' if you will.
 
Great post, well thought through. It corrects the extremely sexist notion I've seen upthread that TA couldn't have been raped by Jodi 'cos guys don't get raped by women.

Dang. I've never seen one post saying that.

Our oldest son got tangled up with a "Jodi". Same manipulation. Same using her sexuality. Same everything down to tire slashing and sneaking into his house once he'd left her to steal his phone and send texts to other girls he'd been speaking with.

Our son was a victim. Travis was a victim. I'm fortunate that I watched this trial and once I heard about the tires and phone theft I called her mother, the police and let everybody know that if my son wound up hurt or any more property was damaged and especially if one hair on my grandsons (he was 3) head was touched that I would be holding that psychopath responsible. The police were superb. Her mom, like Jodi's said they haven't been able to deal with her for years. My son now has his son. She was that bad.

Hell no, it wasn't Travis's fault.
 
Does anyone know what kind of knives were in the Cobalt 'getaway' car, ie hunting, bread and butter, carving knives, what kind? I think she needed a strong hunting knife of some kind to slash tires and not to bend when she was stabbing her victim.
 
I agree with rickshaw, in fact, Jodi's mo in this crime is exactly like that of male intimate partner homicides. They often use more than one weapon, knife slashing is very common, and the prolong the crime like Jodi did , first using sex, then taking shower pics, to lull the victim into a kind of security. But also, the killers get off on the build up . I was surprised that the prosecution did not have a forensic research expert on DV to point that out (and to counter AVL), I can send a link to some on line research if anyone wants it. I was also curious why they didn't do an assessment for psychopathy ie psychopath, other than it is expensive and highly specialized.
 
Does anyone know what kind of knives were in the Cobalt 'getaway' car, ie hunting, bread and butter, carving knives, what kind? I think she needed a strong hunting knife of some kind to slash tires and not to bend when she was stabbing her victim.

Hi madmello

In his book, Martinez said in one box in the Cobalt they found "two kitchen knives" but no details on how big...
 
She had already made arrangements to go. Reserved the car, stolen a gun, talked to Darryl about the gas cans. IMO the contact after May 26 was her manipulating him again..apologizing, maybe finding out his schedule for the next few days.
You don't initiate a call to someone multiple times, eventually speaking for an hour at 3am to say I still hate you, don't come to my house to a woman a 1,000 miles away . IMO

I doubt he knew she was coming. I think it was a surprise. But the contact/manipulation was enough that when she did show up he didn't throw her out. Didn't call the cops. She did like she'd done for many months, turned up the sex knowing -like he said in the call, I'm addicted, I'll get pissed but I always take you back


Please do not continue to misstate the facts about the call record. I reposted the actual record already, recently.



He did NOT initiate a call to her, ever, after May 22. That is just false.

You have no way of knowing whether he actually called her back on May 30. She texted him she missed his call. You think that makes it true he called? She texted him all kinds of weird texts he didn't reply to, especially when she was most likely to just playing her accidental text game. Every other indication is that he didn't return her call.
 
Hi higherlove

Based on the pattern of their toxic relationship, I truly don't. He told his best friend about the May 26 argument. The friend asked if he was afraid. Travis said "no she's a psycho but she's harmless."
I suspect she called, he saw her number and returned her calls. She's a sociopath. Not many people have the tools to deal with such highly manipulative people. Once he calls I'm guessing she either starts babbling about some made up problem she needs his help with or turns up the flattery . Maybe phone sex? Maybe she heard enough from asking him questions to satisfy herself that if she were to go through with her plan that he'd be home, not out of town or have guests for some reason.


Phone sex on June 2?? Seriously?

Saw her number and returned her calls? I'm not going to keep reposting the record over and over. He did NOT see her number and return her calls. She called him 4 times on June 2 and he answered none of her flipping calls. She texted him and tested him and texted him AND made those calls until he finally told her he'd call her back when he could, which was 30 or so minutes later after he said that which was hours after she first started trying.

And what do you expect TA the alpha man was going to say to Taylor when he said "aren't you afraid? " The day after TA gathered up the courage to tell her straight out that he was DONE? The part you keep omitting about that convo with Taylor.

I have little doubt he felt great about himself for that. And why should he feel afraid when she was 1,000 miles away?
 
Please do not continue to misstate the facts about the call record. I reposted the actual record already, recently.

He did NOT initiate a call to her, ever, after May 22. That is just false.

You have no way of knowing whether he actually called her back on May 30. She texted him she missed his call. You think that makes it true he called? She texted him all kinds of weird texts he didn't reply to, especially when she was most likely to just playing her accidental text game. Every other indication is that he didn't return her call.

I do think he called May 30. I do not think she would text she'd missed a call while she was at work unless there was a call. He'd know if he called IMO.

I said there was a text back from her that they should "talk later you/me. We do not know if that call took place. But there is no evidence it did not. None that it did.

He called her twice June 2. That is after May 22
 
Phone sex on June 2?? Seriously?

Saw her number and returned her calls? I'm not going to keep reposting the record over and over. He did NOT see her number and return her calls. She called him 4 times on June 2 and he answered none of her flipping calls. She texted him and tested him and texted him AND made those calls until he finally told her he'd call her back when he could, which was 30 or so minutes later.

I have no idea but phone sex is one possibility. I absolutely think she's evil enough to turn any conversation into phone sex. Wouldn't be the first time. Tell him all the things she wanted to do to de stress him...that way when she accidentally shows up on his doorstep in two days she says...brought the KY...get the camera.



What do you think they talked about for an hour at 3am on June 2?
 
But don't you think it's possible the short calls from her were voicemails...and he called her back to tear a strip off her, just as he did May 26?


The 3 of 4 calls on June 3? Yes, absolutely, as I laid out. Two VM's of around 2 minutes each, etc. He did not answer any of the calls, did not send her a text.

And for that one hour call? Most likely related to May 26... She had told him she was calling an attorney, likely in reply tobsomething he told her during what looks like a 3-4 minute phone call after the May 26 chat. She may have been trying to threaten him with the sextape as blackmail then. Who knows.

But the proof is in the pudding as they say. She didn't sweet talk him into the cycle. They spoke for an hour after she harassed the crap out of him and that was IT. He did not return her calls the next day or text her.
 
I have no idea but phone sex is one possibility. I absolutely think she's evil enough to turn any conversation into phone sex. Wouldn't be the first time. Tell him all the things she wanted to do to de stress him...that way when she accidentally shows up on his doorstep in two days she says...brought the KY...get the camera.



What do you think they talked about for an hour at 3am on June 2?

It isn't what SHE'S capable of. It's about what Travis was capable of. He was done with her on May 22, told her on May 26, told Taylor he had on May 27, freed himself with Lisa on the 28, and was "happy as a lark" flirting with Brooke and looking forward to having her come over.

And the one hour? I've said it repeatedly. I think it most likely she was BS'ing him about retracting whatever threat she'd made on May 26. And that he ultimately didn't believe her, or that he didn't care. Because he did not take the bait and get back in touch with her.
 
There is no evidence who did the actual talking in that long call or what the topic was. It could have been Travis reaming Jodi for doing yet another heinous thing.

No there isn't, but isn't it a strange coincidence that the sex tape was about 40 minutes long(from 5 out of 7 tapes used to compile it)?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/jodi-arias-phone-sex-tape-shows-raunchy-relationship/story?id=18477130
"A raunchy 40-minute phone call..."

The Youtube video showing when it was played in court is 1:08:15, the tape itself was just over 33 minutes(from 5 out of the 7 tapes used to compile it).
[video=youtube;dsmg3nrYfCE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsmg3nrYfCE[/video]
 
Just some random observations:

If 281129 was so devious to supposedly plant all this photographic evidence to make it look like they had sex on June 4th, how come she couldn't come up with a better cover story? We all know she ain't Einstein. I keep coming back to Occam's Razor on the sex/no sex issue.

I get the impression some posters here have no experience with a "love/hate" relationship..where the sex is the only thing keeping a person with someone they don't really want to be with anymore, or to stay in a toxic relationship just for the sex. Like couples that regularly fight and fight and fight and then have "the best make-up sex". If you've never experienced this type of relationship, you might not be able to understand how intoxicating the sex can be. I've been there; I know. The hormone Oxytocin, which is released during orgasm (and interestingly, breastfeeding) is responsible for the bonding effect between mother and baby, intimate partners, and social relationships. Hence the difficult and conflicting emotions that can arise when that bond is injured or broken, intentionally or not.

I also get the impression that some posters here have never dealt with any kind of addiction and perhaps don't understand the cycle of use and withdrawal and use again - just to make the withdrawal effects go away. How sick and tired one can become of that cycle and yet simultaneously feel hopeless of ever being able to break that cycle. Of hating the very thing you cannot tear yourself away from. Or how difficult it is to go "cold turkey". How high-risk the first few weeks of going cold turkey can be, and how important it is to stay away from high-risk situations that will take you back to using (like buddies you smoke or drink or drug with, or people you have sex with). How it really is an effort one day at a time. As a recovering addict, I've been a little surprised and insulted by the lack of compassion and understanding by some of the posts that seem to minimize the whole reality of addiction. As if acknowledging Travis's addictive cycle with 281129 is some sort of an insult to him. To me, all it says is he was human.
 
Please do not continue to misstate the facts about the call record. I reposted the actual record already, recently.



He did NOT initiate a call to her, ever, after May 22. That is just false.

You have no way of knowing whether he actually called her back on May 30. She texted him she missed his call. You think that makes it true he called? She texted him all kinds of weird texts he didn't reply to, especially when she was most likely to just playing her accidental text game. Every other indication is that he didn't return her call.

Anyone able to tell whether her text was "said" with heavy sarcasm? I know I've had occasion to use the same kind of language when I've been expecting a call that didn't come... difference is I don't text, I leave a VM so they can hear the sarcasm.
 
The reply to my question

Hi Sam,

Thank you for contacting Sony Cyber-shot and Handycam Email Response Team.

I understand that you want to know if you can capture a photo on a video that you record. I would be happy to assist and provide you the information you need.

Unfortunately, the Cyber Shot DSC-H9 camera doesn't have the feature or capability of taking a photo while recording a video or taking a snapshot on playback of the video.

I hope I was able to help you with your concern for today.

Thank you for choosing Sony.
Best Regards,
Gladys
C82J
The Sony Cyber-shot and Handycam Email Response Team

Perhaps she hadn't read their own Handbook for it... or got the model wrong. The silver one was the DSC-H9 but the black one had a different model #... DSCH9/B. Either way, the bit I had quoted from the Handbook for it clearly said you can save stills from playing back your videos.

https://docs.sony.com/release//specs/DSCH9B_mksp.pdf
 
Just some random observations:

If 281129 was so devious to supposedly plant all this photographic evidence to make it look like they had sex on June 4th, how come she couldn't come up with a better cover story? We all know she ain't Einstein. I keep coming back to Occam's Razor on the sex/no sex issue.

I get the impression some posters here have no experience with a "love/hate" relationship..where the sex is the only thing keeping a person with someone they don't really want to be with anymore, or to stay in a toxic relationship just for the sex. Like couples that regularly fight and fight and fight and then have "the best make-up sex". If you've never experienced this type of relationship, you might not be able to understand how intoxicating the sex can be. I've been there; I know. The hormone Oxytocin, which is released during orgasm (and interestingly, breastfeeding) is responsible for the bonding effect between mother and baby, intimate partners, and social relationshipsis Hence the difficult and conflicting emotions that can arise when that bond is injured or broken, intentionally or not.

I also get the impression that some posters here have never dealt with any kind of addiction and perhaps don't understand the cycle of use and withdrawal and use again - just to make the withdrawal effects go away. How sick and tired one can become of that cycle and yet simultaneously feel hopeless of ever being able to break that cycle. Of hating the very thing you cannot tear yourself away from. Or how difficult it is to go "cold turkey". How high-risk the first few weeks of going cold turkey can be, and how important it is to stay away from high-risk situations that will take you back to using (like buddies you smoke or drink or drug with, or people you have sex with). How it really is an effort one day at a time. As a recovering addict, I've been a little surprised and insulted by the lack of compassion and understanding by some of the posts that seem to minimize the whole reality of addiction. As if acknowledging Travis's addictive cycle with 281129 is some sort of an insult to him. To me, all it says is he was human.


Maybe because at least some here posting about it don't think he was "addicted" to her and have explained why? Maybe some believe it more accurate to say he was the inexperienced and vulnerable prey of a psychopath? Maybe it is the case some understand precisely what addiction is and are annoyed by its casual or inexact use here? Maybe some believe he was caught in a cycle with her earlier but had broken free?

I've read here or said here all of the above. And I don't see any lack of compassion at all in any of those responses. Quite the opposite, actually.


As for a better cover story. That sounds like Nurmi saying- if she really had gone to such lengths to hide her tracks, why would she have been so stupid as to save the gas can receipt?

Yet, she did and she did.

Why? Because she is a sociopath who THINKS her IQ is as great as Einstein's. And keeps acting on that belief, still, LOL.
 
Just some random observations:

If 281129 was so devious to supposedly plant all this photographic evidence to make it look like they had sex on June 4th, how come she couldn't come up with a better cover story? We all know she ain't Einstein. I keep coming back to Occam's Razor on the sex/no sex issue.

I get the impression some posters here have no experience with a "love/hate" relationship..where the sex is the only thing keeping a person with someone they don't really want to be with anymore, or to stay in a toxic relationship just for the sex. Like couples that regularly fight and fight and fight and then have "the best make-up sex". If you've never experienced this type of relationship, you might not be able to understand how intoxicating the sex can be. I've been there; I know. The hormone Oxytocin, which is released during orgasm (and interestingly, breastfeeding) is responsible for the bonding effect between mother and baby, intimate partners, and social relationships. Hence the difficult and conflicting emotions that can arise when that bond is injured or broken, intentionally or not.

I also get the impression that some posters here have never dealt with any kind of addiction and perhaps don't understand the cycle of use and withdrawal and use again - just to make the withdrawal effects go away. How sick and tired one can become of that cycle and yet simultaneously feel hopeless of ever being able to break that cycle. Of hating the very thing you cannot tear yourself away from. Or how difficult it is to go "cold turkey". How high-risk the first few weeks of going cold turkey can be, and how important it is to stay away from high-risk situations that will take you back to using (like buddies you smoke or drink or drug with, or people you have sex with). How it really is an effort one day at a time. As a recovering addict, I've been a little surprised and insulted by the lack of compassion and understanding by some of the posts that seem to minimize the whole reality of addiction. As if acknowledging Travis's addictive cycle with 281129 is some sort of an insult to him. To me, all it says is he was human.

<modsnip> I don't think JA "planted" any pics, I think she was so intent on getting pics for herself that she simply messed up using a camera she was unfamiliar with.

As for TA, I just think he was a sexually inexperienced "good" guy that didn't know how to deal with a person like JA who clearly had no conscience when it came to achieving her own goals. That said, TA did have a conscience and I strongly believe he thought he'd finally made enough of a break with her with the May 26th chat that he felt she must finally be "over" him. She had even told him that being away was finally allowing her to move on and innocent that he was, he hoped she was telling the truth.

That's the part he was "addicted" to imo, that he couldn't stop trying to believe that as one of God's children everyone, even JA, has some good in them.
 
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