Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #5

[TexMex]

LOL No, not considering a new rabbit hole, just wanted to be clear without having to hunt up LD and BN's testimonies to see if they stated such as I couldn't recall specifics about how it became the one long recording we've all heard. It does make me wonder if the sex part was all she was going to blackmail him with or if there were other pieces (didn't BN say exactly how many pieces he found? I think he did but can't remember a number) that weren't allowed during testimony and had to be excluded from the mashed together version. Well, maybe that is a shallow rabbit hole at that. lol

Neumeister testified he received seven recordings from the Helio. He amplified them and brought a DVD that had the seven recordings spliced together. In chambers, both parties agreed to exclude two of the clips. So he made a new DVD with only the five mutually agreed to clips on it. IIRC

 

[Hope4More]

Sociopaths manipulate/work the target (Travis) into codependent toxic relationships. Travis wanted to be done with her and tried to break away (especially on May 26th). Sociopaths, however, use the emotions of others against them. Threats of suicide, personal drama, sexual feelings. It's all manipulation all the time. This was not his fault. She's a psychopath Like he asked her "why did you manipulate me into loving you. I was a good guy.." He says several times he's addicted (co dependent). They had a pattern of arguing, manipulation -which included sex , then back to communication He continued contact even after she moved. When he rejected her in such a personal way, including threats to expose her to others, IMO it triggered her sick, twisted borderline brain where she felt almost like he was threatening HER life. He's rejected me! Now he also says he's going to alert others to me? Me? How dare he tell people? So he had to die so she could move on. She could date others without him saying...hey dude...careful...she slashed my tires. She won't have to worry about who he talks, texts, emails or travels with. He will never reject her again. So she steals a gun, rents the non descript car, borrows gas cans, turns off her cell phone and heads to Mesa. She knows the pattern. It only has to repeat one more time for her premeditated plan to work. Sadly it did. She was his kryptonite.

Except, they weren't in a relationship for longer than a few months, long distance, if that; he didn't want her to move to Mesa and freaked out when she did; he didn't enable her- he tried to call her out on and stop her intrusive behavior, both when she was in Mesa and after she left--he just didn't have the tools, and like most normal people had no experience with a sociopath, so couldn't make heads or tales of her pathological lying....etc.

The "addicted" thing..... You don't believe what JM said? Travis didn't always choose the perfect words to express himself, and really, to take what he was saying literally and at face value is to ignore the rest of what was said in the chat, the weeks before the chat, and the fact he texted her exactly 20 words from just before 5AM on May 26 through June 4.


I agree with what JM said in his closing....that it is very likely that Travis simply let his guard down for a time after she left Mesa. And even that didn't last long--he largely cut her off by May 16, and all the way off on May 22, because he had come to realize that distance wasn't going to stop her from intruding whenever and wherever she could.

The pattern was absolutely broken, IMO. It didn't work one more time, which is why she decided she had to kill him. He didn't know she was coming, and IMO, was likely scared most if not all the time he knew she was in his house.

 

[knt]

I doubt it was actually taped. What struck me was how ugly the suggestion was, and how transparently false JA's motivation was. Clancy's boss would think it was funny? Really?


Same thing with Danny Jones, on the "May 10" call. Remember how hard she pushed to get TA to leave a public derogatory comment on DJ's FB page? Including saying something like, don't let him intimidate you, you'd do it for anyone else, giggling the whole time.

She sounded pretty disappointed when TA said he preferred not to humiliate people in public.

(BTW, don't think it was a coincidence that she had no such hesitation , and left DJ exactly such a comment on his FB, just before May 26).

What comment did she leave DJ? I don't remember that..

 

[knt]

Neumeister testified he received seven recordings from the Helio. He amplified them and brought a DVD that had the seven recordings spliced together. In chambers, both parties agreed to exclude two of the clips. So he made a new DVD with only the five mutually agreed to clips on it. IIRC

Any idea what was on the 2 clips that were excluded?

 

[TexMex]

Except, they weren't in a relationship for longer than a few months, long distance, if that; he didn't want her to move to Mesa and freaked out when she did; he didn't enable her- he tried to call her out on and stop her intrusive behavior, both when she was in Mesa and after she left--he just didn't have the tools, and like most normal people had no experience with a sociopath, so couldn't make heads or tales of her pathological lying....etc.

The "addicted" thing..... You don't believe what JM said? Travis didn't always choose the perfect words to express himself, and really, to take what he was saying literally and at face value is to ignore the rest of what was said in the chat, the weeks before the chat, and the fact he texted her exactly 20 words from just before 5AM on May 26 through June 4.


I agree with what JM said in his closing....that is very likely that Travis simply let his guard down for a time after she left Mesa. And even that didn't last long--he largely cut her off by May 16, and all the way off on May 22, because he had come to realize that distance wasn't going to stop her from intruding whenever and wherever she could.

The pattern was absolutely broken, IMO. It didn't work one more time, which is why she decided she had to kill him. He didn't know she was coming, and IMO, was likely scared most if not all the time he knew she was in his house.

Their relationship was from September of 2006- June 4, 2008. Their "dating" was only a few months.
IMO Travis did mean what he said on May 26. JM said a lot more than that quote in his closing. He was saying the May 26th fight could have set her off. Motivated her to steal a gun. Because Travis told her all of those hurtful things He said she a manipulative killer. But the pattern wasn't broken, which contributed to Travis letting down of his guard. They didn't text much but they did text. They also spoke on the phone. Including 59 minutes from 3-4am on June 2, called from Travis to Jodi. That's a lot of talking and time for Jodi to do her thing, rope him in again. I do not know if he knew she was coming. Probably not. She went through a lot of trouble to disguise her trip so I doubt she would risk him telling anyone she was on the way. IMO she sweet talked him, set him at ease with her again...probably digging for info from him on if he'd be home, perhaps she inquired about how his roommates were doing?
IMO she showed up...all rainbows and unicorns with a check and apologies and her jug of KY to boot. JMO but Travis wasn't scared. He had sex, took pics, hung out and finally told her he had a call and she'd have to go soon. She agrees but her final manipulation was the shower pics. Then she kills him.

 

[TexMex]

Any idea what was on the 2 clips that were excluded?

No clue!

 

[Hope4More]

LOL No, not considering a new rabbit hole, just wanted to be clear without having to hunt up LD and BN's testimonies to see if they stated such as I couldn't recall specifics about how it became the one long recording we've all heard. It does make me wonder if the sex part was all she was going to blackmail him with or if there were other pieces (didn't BN say exactly how many pieces he found? I think he did but can't remember a number) that weren't allowed during testimony and had to be excluded from the mashed together version. Well, maybe that is a shallow rabbit hole at that. lol

Here's a guess about her intentions. They changed, which is one reason why she had to slice and dice. I think her original plan was to make a tape to destroy him--both with the church (the whole tied to a tree lie, from suggesting it to him, sending the May 2 script to herself, bringing it up on the sex tape, and very definitely making sure he was recorded saying they had intercourse) and within PPL (which is why she brought up specific PPL people for him to badmouth).

I think sometime between May 14-18 she decided just blowing up his life like she had his BWI wasn't going to make her feel better; he had to die. Pass the shaker with the unsubtle lie she sprinkled everywhere, about Travis coming to visit her. See? We were still buds! The visiting lie was hinted at in the one set of texts sent on June 2 or 3 (looked at wrong calendar! Call me!), it went on the VM she left within hours of killing him and in the email she sent him several days later, it went into multiple post -LE interview journal entries, and it figured prominently in those interviews and at trial.

But...the visiting lie began when she spliced the May 10 tape to make sure the tape said --see, we're still buds and it's all good, and be seeing you soon (in Mesa, she meant).

 

[Hope4More]

Their relationship was from September of 2006- June 4, 2008. Their "dating" was only a few months.
IMO Travis did mean what he said on May 26. JM said a lot more than that quote in his closing. He said she a manipulative killer. But the pattern wasn't broken, which contributed to Travis letting down of his guard. They didn't text much but they did text. They also spoke on the phone. Including 59 minutes from 3-4am on June 2, called from Travis to Jodi. That's a lot of talking and time for Jodi to do her thing, rope him in again. I do not know if he knew she was coming. Probably not. She went through a lot of trouble to disguise her trip so I doubt she would risk him telling anyone she was on the way. IMO she sweet talked him, set him at ease with her again...probably digging for info from him on if he'd be home, perhaps she inquired about how his roommates were doing?
IMO she showed up...all rainbows and unicorns with a check and apologies and her jug of KY to boot. JMO but Travis wasn't scared. He had sex, took pics, hung out and finally told her he had a call and she'd have to go soon. She agrees but her final manipulation was the shower pics. Then she kills him.

The letting down of his guard, JM said (and I agree) was temporary. The texts speak for themselves. He thought she was gone and he could breath, and he didn't like enemies if he could have them be friends instead. Maybe even then he was also worried about making her angry enough that she'd run to the bishop. Dunno. But he DID break with her by May 16-18, and after that there was no apologizing and forgiving and going back to the same old. May 26 put a great big ole exclamation point on that break, but it had already happened.

The obviously considered that one hour call early on June 2 extremely important to make. We seem to agree that she didn't call to tell him she was heading out his way. I don't think he would have spoken to her about roommates, etc., because IMO he hadn't turned the page with her and wasn't going to.

My best guess is that she told him --great news! I found the Helio, I erased the tape, and yah, I found my One and so have as much to lose by going to the bishop as you do, so no worries there either...peace out. (BTW.. since we know she had already decided to kill him before May 26, I think it's relevant to wonder why she played out May 26 as she did).

I'd agree with you, or at least find your version of what happened next more probable, if her story about what happened when she arrived in Mesa made any sense. It doesn't. If she had manipulated TA into letting down his guard with that call, there would have been no need for her to lie about her arrival, but she did. She didn't watch videos with Travis, she didn't even know what was on the videos she said they watched together.

Yep, and Napoleon just laid there unaware of her as she came in through the garage, walked to the office, and stood in the door for almost a minute. It just didn't happen that way. Nor did Travis sleep until 12:30PM and yet manage to send a text at 12:23PM, or try forever to get a CD to work on a computer that magically had no virus before or after he tried but couldn't because of a virus, nor did he throw a CD at her that broke into shards that magically poofed without a trace (credit to Wing Ding for that last point).

That is what she said happened while they were "hanging out," and IMO makes not a lick of sense.

IMO, TA believed and meant everything he said on May 26, including that she was a liar to her very core, that she was evil and sick, that she had deliberately used sex to ruin him. It follows for me, given the whole context, that he no longer believed in unicorns or her stories of rainbows, and knew there was absolutely no reason whatsoever to trust anything she said.

 

[Hope4More]

What comment did she leave DJ? I don't remember that..

"Are those man or are you just ripped?"

 

[salberg7]

I think it was very much about the sex. He was inexperienced prior to the killer. For goodness' sake, they had mutual oral sex within one week of meeting each other. He may have felt sorry for her because of his complicated childhood and his need to try to help others realize their potential, and he struggled every day because of the sexual part. He lost his TR over it twice - the first time with Deanna, the second with his killer. He was a normal 30 yr old guy, nothing wrong with liking sex. But it was clear that sex caused him to be greatly conflicted, especially sex with Jodi. But unfortunately she knew his weakness, and preyed on that vulnerability. It proved fatal for him in the end, because no one thinks their lover is going to slaughter them in their own home. And if you are inherently a good hearted person, as Travis was, you do develop a fondness for someone you've been so intimate with. He wasn't a cad, he wasn't using her. He just couldn't refuse it.

 

[Hatfield]

Here's a guess about her intentions. They changed, which is one reason why she had to slice and dice. I think her original plan was to make a tape to destroy him--both with the church (the whole tied to a tree lie, from suggesting it to him, sending the May 2 script to herself, bringing it up on the sex tape, and very definitely making sure he was recorded saying they had intercourse) and within PPL (which is why she brought up specific PPL people for him to badmouth).

I think sometime between May 14-18 she decided just blowing up his life like she had his BWI wasn't going to make her feel better; he had to die. Pass the shaker with the unsubtle lie she sprinkled everywhere, about Travis coming to visit her. See? We were still buds! The visiting lie was hinted at in the one set of texts sent on June 2 or 3 (looked at wrong calendar! Call me!), it went on the VM she left within hours of killing him and in the email she sent him several days later, it went into multiple post LE-interview journal entries, and it figured prominently in those interviews and at trial.

But...the visiting lie began when she spliced the May 10 tape to make sure the tape said --see, we're still buds and it's all good, and be seeing you soon (in Mesa, she meant).

Re BBM

Been following along and I agree with a lot of points people are making.

I think the "visiting lie" was one of her main alibi type things. It was a feeble attempt to throw off LE. But in her mind she thought it was a great plan. She thought LE would see the "planning" of him visiting her and she thought LE would think that she was patiently waiting on him to visit her lonesome self in CA. Sitting there in CA waiting patiently for the day that he would visit her and she would get to see him again.

What she failed to realize was that EVERYBODY knew she was obsessed with TA. So LE would quickly find out she was obsessed. But in her arrogant and sociopathic state she could just meet with LE and explain it all away. Thus the phone calls to LE to make sure she could talk with the investigator to tell him like it is. All she needed was 5 minutes of his time and it would all be straightened out.

"Just five minutes worm your honour..."
Sorry but had to throw in a Pink Floyd song lyric here. Some of the lyrics here in this song ring true of her phsychopathic ways.

"The prisoner who now stands before you
Was caught red handed showing feelings
Showing feelings of an almost human nature
This will not do...."
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/pinkfloyd/thetrial.html

Back to the "visiting lie". Yeah it was a very important part of her plan. She had thought it all through and her mistake was assuming that LE would hear about it and think Oh yeah surely she could have not travelled to Mesa because he was planning on seeing her anyway on a visit soon.
And when she made that phone call on the very same day she killed him then that was the clincher. In her mind nobody would ever think she could have traveled to see him that day. Because she called him.
It was perfect plan.....NOT

It was in reality one of the oldest tricks in the book that LE has seen over and over again and we too have seen it in the movies. Someone makes a fake phone call pretending not to know what happened and is asking
"where are you?"

She is a piece of work for sure and it is mind boggling to think that she even thought some of what she did would go unnoticed.

 

[Wing Ding]

I believe she wrecked that car intentionally because of her psychopathy to get back at him and to stay connected to him in any way she could.

I have heard this thought expressed before, but while [the psychopathy of] intentionally ruining his car would be one way to get back at him for her having to move back to California with nothing but one solitary cardboard box with her social security card in it (read as: it's his fault I'm leaving Arizona single and broke), it doesn't make sense to me that she would be that dumb (and stupid (ha ha, wink, wink)) to intentionally ruin his car and here's why:

Whether she buys Travis' car and makes nominal payments to him, or whether she ruins his car and makes nominal restitution payments to him... either way she she's gonna drag her feet making car payments. And... either way she remains connected to him. So regardless if she drags her feet or makes timely payments to him, why would she prefer making payments on a car she can't drive as opposed to making payments on a car she can drive?

Is that the psychopathy of her actions? Like cutting off her nose to spite her face, she preferred ruining Travis' car even if that meant denying herself the use of that same car? Or was it more like Red Mist where she couldn't see the repercussions of her actions because of her anger?

I wonder if she was advised by the employee(s) at U-Haul not to leave the car in park and leave the E brake off after she loaded it on the dolly? If so, I would agree that she intentionally ruined his car. My non-psychopathic brain, however, thinks she was simply too conditioned to putting a car in park and setting the E brake when she loaded it on the dolly and didn't think of the repercussions.

If that sounds like I'm giving her a pass on the car thing, well... I guess I am because it just doesn't make sense for her to ruin something she wants and needs -- the nose on her face notwithstanding.

 

[Hope4More]

I think it was very much about the sex. He was inexperienced prior to the killer. For goodness' sake, they had mutual oral sex within one week of meeting each other. He may have felt sorry for her because of his complicated childhood and his need to try to help others realize their potential, and he struggled every day because of the sexual part. He lost his TR over it twice - the first time with Deanna, the second with his killer. He was a normal 30 yr old guy, nothing wrong with liking sex. But it was clear that sex caused him to be greatly conflicted, especially sex with Jodi. But unfortunately she knew his weakness, and preyed on that vulnerability. It proved fatal for him in the end, because no one thinks their lover is going to slaughter them in their own home. And if you are inherently a good hearted person, as Travis was, you do develop a fondness for someone you've been so intimate with. He wasn't a cad, he wasn't using her. He just couldn't refuse it.

The said that about oral sex in the first week. I don't believe her, and the uber-observant Hughes don't either. Given that the was stupid enough to claim that TA overcame her timid, virtually virginal little self at the Hughes' house, I tend to believe the Hughes' version, not that of the lying liar.

 

[TexMex]

The letting down of his guard, JM said (and I agree) was temporary. The texts speak for themselves. He thought she was gone and he could breath, and he didn't like enemies if he could have them be friends instead. Maybe even then he was also worried about making her angry enough that she'd run to the bishop. Dunno. But he DID break with her by May 16-18, and after that there was no apologizing and forgiving and going back to the same old. May 26 put a great big ole exclamation point on that break, but it had already happened.

The obviously considered that one hour call early on June 2 extremely important to make. We seem to agree that she didn't call to tell him she was heading out his way. I don't think he would have spoken to her about roommates, etc., because IMO he hadn't turned the page with her and wasn't going to.

My best guess is that she told him --great news! I found the Helio, I erased the tape, and yah, I found my One and so have as much to lose by going to the bishop as you do, so no worries there either...peace out. (BTW.. since we know she had already decided to kill him before May 26, I think it's relevant to wonder why she played out May 26 as she did).

I'd agree with you, or at least find your version of what happened next more probable, if her story about what happened when she arrived in Mesa made any sense. It doesn't. If she had manipulated TA into letting down his guard with that call, there would have been no need for her to lie about her arrival, but she did. She didn't watch videos with Travis, she didn't even know what wason the videos she said they watched together.

Yep, and Napoleon just laid there unaware of her as she came in through the garage, walked to the office, and stood in the door for almost a minute. It just didn't happen that way, and nor did Travis sleep until 12:30 and yet manage to send a text at 12:23 the next morning, etc.

IMO, TA believed and meant everything he said on May 26, including that she was a liar to her very core, that she was evil and sick, that she had deliberately used sex to ruin him. It follows for me, given the whole context, that he no longer believed in unicorns or her stories of rainbows, and knew there was absolutely no reason whatsoever to trust anything she said.

We don't know for sure when she decided he was going to die. But two days after May 26th there was a "burglary" and whatever plan/fantasy she had prior was set in motion.

Travis was the one who called her...twice one 18 minutes and one call 41 minutes between 3 and 4am June 2.
It fits the pattern of her abuse and sociopathy towards him. She calls, leaves him messages, he finally calls back and she gets her hooks in once again.

She arrived in Mesa about the time...4am..that it would take her to drive from Pasadena (with he hour time difference). It doesn't matter if he knew she was coming, if the dog barked, if they watched YouTube together or what time they woke up. What matters is she weasels her way in and he lets her stay. IMO Would I like to know every detail? Sure. But we can't.

The pics that day are the proof that he did let his guard down, let her stay (however she got there) then had sex with her. If he were afraid or still hostile and "done" with her he would have called a friend or the cops when she came into his house. IMO the hour they spoke on June 2nd served to put him more at ease with her with her. Not saying he was wanting to date her again. Just be "friendly" for a few hours til she left.

I too think he meant what he said on May 26 but by June 4 she was in his bed. A pattern that had repeated through the 20 months they knew each other.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I think it was very much about the sex. He was inexperienced prior to the killer. For goodness' sake, they had mutual oral sex within one week of meeting each other. He may have felt sorry for her because of his complicated childhood and his need to try to help others realize their potential, and he struggled every day because of the sexual part. He lost his TR over it twice - the first time with Deanna, the second with his killer. He was a normal 30 yr old guy, nothing wrong with liking sex. But it was clear that sex caused him to be greatly conflicted, especially sex with Jodi. But unfortunately she knew his weakness, and preyed on that vulnerability. It proved fatal for him in the end, because no one thinks their lover is going to slaughter them in their own home. And if you are inherently a good hearted person, as Travis was, you do develop a fondness for someone you've been so intimate with. He wasn't a cad, he wasn't using her. He just couldn't refuse it.

Yes, and the butcheress turned him onto things he had never experienced with anyone else. He was so naïve that he had never used KY. IMO, it had only been missionary with DR, but she wasn't a butt like the killer. That girl (JA) started young with her sexual escapades and I doubt she could define missionary let alone enjoy it. JMO. Like you said, he was a normal hormones raging guy who enjoyed the sexual part of the relationship.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

The said that about oral sex in the first week. I don't believe her, and the uber-observant Hughes don't either. Given that the was stupid enough to claim that TA overcame her timid, virtually virginal little self at the Hughes' house, I tend to believe the Hughes' version, not that of the lying liar.

I agree that any of the sex came much later. I have never bought into anything happening at the Hughes' home. She might have tried, but I think he respected their home and said a big hefty NO.

 

[krkrjx]

I have heard this thought expressed before, but while [the psychopathy of] intentionally ruining his car would be one way to get back at him for her having to move back to California with nothing but one solitary cardboard box with her social security card in it (read as: it's his fault I'm leaving Arizona single and broke), it doesn't make sense to me that she would be that dumb (and stupid (ha ha, wink, wink)) to intentionally ruin his car and here's why:

Whether she buys Travis' car and makes nominal payments to him, or whether she ruins his car and makes nominal restitution payments to him... either way she she's gonna drag her feet making car payments. And... either way she remains connected to him. So regardless if she drags her feet or makes timely payments to him, why would she prefer making payments on a car she can't drive as opposed to making payments on a car she can drive?

Is that the psychopathy of her actions? Like cutting off her nose to spite her face, she preferred ruining Travis' car even if that meant denying herself the use of that same car? Or was it more like Red Mist where she couldn't see the repercussions of her actions because of her anger?

I wonder if she was advised by the employee(s) at U-Haul not to leave the car in park and leave the E brake off after she loaded it on the dolly? If so, I would agree that she intentionally ruined his car. My non-psychopathic brain, however, thinks she was simply too conditioned to putting a car in park and setting the E brake when she loaded it on the dolly and didn't think of the repercussions.

If that sounds like I'm giving her a pass on the car thing, well... I guess I am because it just doesn't make sense for her to ruin something she wants and needs -- the nose on her face notwithstanding.

This entire post makes so much sense that I want to agree with it 100 percent, but then my mind goes to how much she wanted Travis...

Still, I too am not convinced Killer ruined the car on purpose. She may have indeed--she certainly is mean enough--but it could just as easily have been accidental. She is materialistic. She likes things. She might not be able to destroy things as easily as she can people.

 

[Hope4More]

I have heard this thought expressed before, but while [the psychopathy of] intentionally ruining his car would be one way to get back at him for her having to move back to California with nothing but one solitary cardboard box with her social security card in it (read as: it's his fault I'm leaving Arizona single and broke), it doesn't make sense to me that she would be that dumb (and stupid (ha ha, wink, wink)) to intentionally ruin his car and here's why:

Whether she buys Travis' car and makes nominal payments to him, or whether she ruins his car and makes nominal restitution payments to him... either way she she's gonna drag her feet making car payments. And... either way she remains connected to him. So regardless if she drags her feet or makes timely payments to him, why would she prefer making payments on a car she can't drive as opposed to making payments on a car she can drive?

Is that the psychopathy of her actions? Like cutting off her nose to spite her face, she preferred ruining Travis' car even if that meant denying herself the use of that same car? Or was it more like Red Mist where she couldn't see the repercussions of her actions because of her anger?

I wonder if she was advised by the employee(s) at U-Haul not to leave the car in park and leave the E brake off after she loaded it on the dolly? If so, I would agree that she intentionally ruined his car. My non-psychopathic brain, however, thinks she was simply too conditioned to putting a car in park and setting the E brake when she loaded it on the dolly and didn't think of the repercussions.

If that sounds like I'm giving her a pass on the car thing, well... I guess I am because it just doesn't make sense for her to ruin something she wants and needs -- the nose on her face notwithstanding.

Thing is, there is little to no reason to believe he intended to sell her the car BEFORE she blew it up. It wasn't hers. It was his, and she was really really PO'd at him pretty much non-stop from mid-March on, if not before.

Also of interest is a little detail I think she told Flores by phone that she thought better of repeating afterwards. In that version she said SHE hooked up the BMW, and afterwards a UHaul employee opened a door on the BMW to check things out, told her all was good, and she drove off, kaboom.

Umm. What else would UHaul be checking for inside,other than to make sure the car was in neutral? So either the checking was a lie or after UHaul checked she took it out of neutral and put it into first gear.

Car payments? She never intended to pay him a cent and didn't. I've wondered if she blew it up in rage and/then to scam him, by trying to claim any insurance/UHaul payout.

 

[Hatfield]

This entire post makes so much sense that I want to agree with it 100 percent, but then my mind goes to how much she wanted Travis...

Still, I too am not convinced Killer ruined the car on purpose. She may have indeed--she certainly is mean enough--but it could just as easily have been accidental. She is materialistic. She likes things. She might not be able to destroy things as easily as she can people.

Yeah, that's another tough one which I could see going either way.

I tend to think she just made a stupid mistake in her haste to hook up the car to be towed. Hooking up a car to be towed is not something we do very often thank goodness and so I could see that being a mistake that she would make.

When I think of how PPL businesses used nice expensive cars as a status symbol I do think she wanted it pretty bad so I doubt she did it on purpose. I think she was probably just rushing the hookup of the car and blew it.

OT
I once attended an Amway meeting and the person that ran the meeting actually borrowed another Amway person's car to have in the driveway as we all showed up for the meeting. The car was a really nice brand new vehicle and this person made sure this new vehicle was in their driveway as we all pulled up. It was done to fool everyone into thinking if you joined Amway you could do well in the business and get rich and have nice fancy cars like he had.

The reason I know this is I lived down the street from where the meeting took place and saw him drive up in this vehicle about a day before the meeting. About 2 days after the meeting was over he drives away and comes back in his regular car. We never saw that new fancy car again.

 

[RickshawFan]

Their relationship was from September of 2006- June 4, 2008. Their "dating" was only a few months.
IMO Travis did mean what he said on May 26. JM said a lot more than that quote in his closing. He was saying the May 26th fight could have set her off. Motivated her to steal a gun. Because Travis told her all of those hurtful things He said she a manipulative killer. But the pattern wasn't broken, which contributed to Travis letting down of his guard. They didn't text much but they did text. They also spoke on the phone. Including 59 minutes from 3-4am on June 2, called from Travis to Jodi. That's a lot of talking and time for Jodi to do her thing, rope him in again. I do not know if he knew she was coming. Probably not. She went through a lot of trouble to disguise her trip so I doubt she would risk him telling anyone she was on the way. IMO she sweet talked him, set him at ease with her again...probably digging for info from him on if he'd be home, perhaps she inquired about how his roommates were doing?
IMO she showed up...all rainbows and unicorns with a check and apologies and her jug of KY to boot. JMO but Travis wasn't scared. He had sex, took pics, hung out and finally told her he had a call and she'd have to go soon. She agrees but her final manipulation was the shower pics. Then she kills him.

Do you think she could have had the gun in the bedroom to coerce TA to have sex? In domestic violence, this is quite common. Coercive sex that is. If not the gun, she was holding something else over him that was coercive? Maybe that's why he threw the KY?