Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #5

[kmp3]

Interpretation (utter speculative possible scenario): she used the gun as a prop, didn't intend to shoot him but did after slitting his throat, and on her jubilant night drive through Arizonian desert thought... gosh, jodi. Shouldn't have shot him.

Snort! I could totally imagine her saying that to herself. The "gosh, jodi" part made me LOL!

Kate

 

[Hope4More]

Following my own bouncing ball here....May 26.


Imagining what it felt like to Travis to be told by the that she needed to go to her bishop, immediately, to confess and repent her sexual sins.

That the fog had lifted since returning to Yreka, and that she understood now just how confused she'd been by their situation, how much she had jeopardized herself spiritually by being sexual with Travis, and how much misery having sex had caused him too. That going to the bishop was the right thing to do for both of them.

JA: (I just add to your misery, I don't want you to be miserable anymore, being sexual was my unevolved way of trying to feel loved, I was a bad influence, I would have been content just to cuddle, I wasn't strong enough (to resist you), I was weak and I am so sorry for that, I just don't want you to be unhappy anymore).

No wonder at all TA responded with rage and mockery. She was holding herself out as more spiritual than him. Blaming him for ruining her out of one side of her mouth, and out of the other side, telling him she cared about the misery she caused him by succumbing to his advances.

TA says----you aren't who you say you are (spiritual, a Mormon), and that everything about you is a lie. Spiritual? No- a .

That she knew exactly what she was doing, and that she had used sex to get what she wanted from him.

Spiritual? She was not only a liar and a , but a thief (stole my journals) and a tire-slashing psycho.

He knows she's lying about why she wants to go to the bishop. So, it must be because she wants to destroy ("ruin") him. But she won't be honest about even that.

(TA: just say you are not sorry. I don't ask that you be sorry, I ask that you don't lie to me. Why did you manipulate me into loving you? What was your purpose? You never tried to love me, you succeeded in hating me. Everything you did, inside and outside the bedroom, you did for yourself, to serve your own purpose).

On May 25-26 the is in total control, manipulating him, steering the conversation where she wants it to go. Travis is trying to get an answer about why she's going to destroy him by going to her bishop, trying to get her to admit to some of the lies he knows are lies.

She's thinking ahead to part #2, the "incriminating" reason she's about to tell him to explain why she needs to get to the bishop STAT.

That she understands what will happen to TA when his own bishop finds out he's broken the law of chastity again, but...it's really not within her control anymore about whether or not to go. Because she recorded phone sex to give to him as a momento. And then the phone it was on was stolen. Check for himself. She reported it to the police on May 18.

 

[TexMex]

GeeVee, the quality of the image being used is very poor. Taken from a shot of a monitor offering no valuable comparison to the actual photo shown in Juan's book. We have to work with reproduced copies, of course, for all documents and can't access the actual pics. This make it much harder to accurately view photos. That you managed to highlight it at all has been very helpful to pinpoint it.

I have looked at the above image - as hard to make out as it is - on my macbook pro, my husbands' mac and my iPad. In my sunny study, with no lights on, no light behind me, I get glare on all screens. I can see my fingers and even my face on the monitors. The brightly lit courtroom reflected something from the desk back on to the monitor. To me, it looks like fingers, not toes. I can see what looks like a gold ring in the blur.

Even if - as you suggest - there are toes - the angle is very strange in the context of the entire picture.

I ask you to please answer this: If the toes were displayed on the identical photo in court, why did the prosecution, jury, defense, reporters, photographic experts miss them? In both trials? Why is there no sign of them in the photograph - which is a wider, better quality shot - in Juan's book below?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=90555&d=1457951352

Thanks.

Plus she's wearing socks so she wouldn't leave traceable footprints that could be matched back to her

 

[FinallyRegistered]

This is me. I have on yoga pants and black socks.

 

[krkrjx]

I think that pic is giving a somewhat false picture, if you will. If you look at the pic from the e-book (and you can even see it in the ones from trial but not as well) you can see through the bottom edge of the pant leg (where a leg/ankle would be if it were a stationary foot) to his back, her leg is in motion, moving to our left and upwards (otherwise the pic couldn't have caught the toe blur down below and upward, the upward wouldn't show as it'd have happened before the pic was snapped (foot coming down) toe blur is all over the front of the tile like an overlay because her foot was moving quickly. That fold is her foot/pant leg moving upwards and her foot is bare, what looks like a sock is a towel imo, that she hid one or both weapons in, maybe in his bathroom cabinet as in the book pic you can clearly see the cabinet door is open while the attack is in progress, she didn't open it to get the cup when she was in clean up mode, she was in the cabinet before she attacked him. All jmo but I see the proof in the pics.

I agree Killer's foot is in motion when that photo is taken. Camera really had to be on the floor for that shot, IMO. The only thing I can't see for sure is that her foot is bare. It could be that things appear differently on different computer screens but to me it looks like a sock. I can easily see your scenario of her having hid weapons in his bathroom cabinet. This crime was premeditated over quite a span of time and I believe she would have planned where to hide her weapons. To her, the bathroom was the best option for hiding places plus it seemed a murder site that would be (she thought) easy to clean up. IMO.

 

[FinallyRegistered]

Pant, foot, camera shadow.

 

[Deleted member 122533]

Thanks, Finally Registered. Very helpful and clear, especially on the camera shadow position.

 

[Deleted member 122533]

This is me. I have on yoga pants and black socks.

Going above and beyond - recreating the pose. Thanks, FinallyRegistered. There is even a crease in the sweat pants. I have no doubt she was wearing socks in that pic. Based on the clear photo produced in JM's book, the evidence and even by her admission. As Tex Mex highlighted - the socks were more evidence of planning, ensuring no shoe prints would be left.

 

[TexMex]

Going above and beyond - recreating the pose. Thanks, FinallyRegistered. There is even a crease in the sweat pants. I have no doubt she was wearing socks in that pic. Based on the clear photo produced in JM's book, the evidence and even by her admission. As Tex Mex highlighted - the socks were more evidence of planning, ensuring no shoe prints would be left.

Exactly. If she was barefoot she'd leave footprints. If she wore shoes there's a whole database of footwear impressions available. So...socks.
I wish Flores had asked her why the ninjas left no footprints...

 

[Niner]

:wave:

snipped by me...
Sorry if I'm arguing with y'all today. Wife often says I should have been a lawyer instead of a vet.
All opinions are only mine and offered with respect

Oh - my Father was a veterinarian!! He graduated as the oldest student at U.C. Davis in 1964 at 58 years old!
And I don't really "think" your arguing, per se, just stating your opinion and a great debate! I agree with your scenario!

snipped by me...
I've now put all of their known communications from May 22-May 26 in the correct order, including the chat itself. The chat reads VERY differently when in the proper sequence.

I've been in fairly regular contact with BK's mod, who is thinking about posting the corrected order on BK's site. I'll ask for permission to post the whole chat here and hope she allows it.

I hope you CAN post it here!

snipped by me (again! )...
As for loving him? IMO she absolutely never loved him. She's fundamentally incapable. She's a sociopath. TA was a means to an end. He thwarted her from getting what she wanted with him, and she felt threatened by him that he'd thwart her new hunt for prey by exposing her. So he had to die.

I believe this too! Travis was going "expose" her! So he had to die...

Did they ever figure out "what" kind of knife :jail: used? Length, width? Could it have been a knife that folds? Had it in her pocket? I too believe she had the gun on him when he's in the shower posing for those pictures.

I'm going to post this and continue reading...

 

[pocketaccent]

Following my own bouncing ball here....May 26.


Imagining what it felt like to Travis to be told by the that she needed to go to her bishop, immediately, to confess and repent her sexual sins.

That the fog had lifted since returning to Yreka, and that she understood now just how confused she'd been by their situation, how much she had jeopardized herself spiritually by being sexual with Travis, and how much misery having sex had caused him too. That going to the bishop was the right thing to do for both of them.

JA: (I just add to your misery, I don't want you to be miserable anymore, being sexual was my unevolved way of trying to feel loved, I was a bad influence, I would have been content just to cuddle, I wasn't strong enough (to resist you), I was weak and I am so sorry for that, I just don't want you to be unhappy anymore).

No wonder at all TA responded with rage and mockery. She was holding herself out as more spiritual than him. Blaming him for ruining her out of one side of her mouth, and out of the other side, telling him she cared about the misery she caused him by succumbing to his advances.

TA says----you aren't who you say you are (spiritual, a Mormon), and that everything about you is a lie. Spiritual? No- a .

That she knew exactly what she was doing, and that she had used sex to get what she wanted from him.

Spiritual? She was not only a liar and a , but a thief (stole my journals) and a tire-slashing psycho.

He knows she's lying about why she wants to go to the bishop. So, it must be because she wants to destroy ("ruin") him. But she won't be honest about even that.

(TA: just say you are not sorry. I don't ask that you be sorry, I ask that you don't lie to me. Why did you manipulate me into loving you? What was your purpose? You never tried to love me, you succeeded in hating me. Everything you did, inside and outside the bedroom, you did for yourself, to serve your own purpose).

On May 25-26 the is in total control, manipulating him, steering the conversation where she wants it to go. Travis is trying to get an answer about why she's going to destroy him by going to her bishop, trying to get her to admit to some of the lies he knows are lies.

She's thinking ahead to part #2, the "incriminating" reason she's about to tell him to explain why she needs to get to the bishop STAT.

That she understands what will happen to TA when his own bishop finds out he's broken the law of chastity again, but...it's really not within her control anymore about whether or not to go. Because she recorded phone sex to give to him as a momento. And then the phone it was on was stolen. Check for himself. She reported it to the police on May 18.

Wow, she is truly evil.
It looks like then JA's blurting out 'I need to see a lawyer', 'I need to call Parker Stan' was just another of her shenigans to deceive Travis yet again. She was letting him know she is going to make the matter public and it was his job to stop her. It was her ploy to make him scared. I don't think she had any intention to call a lawyer.

Yes, she was in total control. I can't agree more.
Patiently waiting for your final dissertation.lease:

 

[TexMex]

:wave:



Oh - my Father was a veterinarian!! He graduated as the oldest student at U.C. Davis in 1964 at 58 years old!
And I don't really "think" your arguing, per se, just stating your opinion and a great debate! I agree with your scenario!



I hope you CAN post it here!



I believe this too! Travis was going "expose" her! So he had to die...

Did they ever figure out "what" kind of knife :jail: used? Length, width? Could it have been a knife that folds? Had it in her pocket? I too believe she had the gun on him when he's in the shower posing for those pictures.

I'm going to post this and continue reading...

Very impressive to do that at 58.
Texas A&M University grad. I'm in my early 50's and retired. Luckily made good investments and had some natural gas wells on some family property in East Texas...

I think the fact that she was after new prey (Ryan was a PPL success) and Travis easily could get word to him about tire slashing, stalking etc was a huge motive. She was almost 28, had just wasted almost 2 years pursuing Travis and four years staying with Darryl who didn't want to remarry, she didn't have time to put in six months dating Ryan only to have Travis blow it up.

The strange thing is she didn't even realize she was suspect #1. Two or three people told LE immediately that they needed to look at Jodi. I guess if she did know his friends would accuse her she was counting on her having no paper trail in AZ to throw off suspicion

 

[salberg7]

Trialwatcher, I can clearly see fingers in the bottom left shot of the picture on the monitor. They are, definitively, the reflection of someone's fingers from someone in the courtroom. There are no fingers nor toes in any other version of that picture- not in Juan's book or otherwise, IMO. I can see fingers, nails and a ring. It's probably Wilmott but it isn't the killer. I don't believe she had a neck strap nor that a video was being taken during the murder.
The Cybershot, if it is in autofocus, will not take an unclear picture. It will wait until the object being photographed is more or less quite stationery and snap it. The killer's legs were stationary as she bent down to stab him and IMO that's what she was photographed doing.
I am still baffled as to why he had his legs crossed in the shower, but I'll never know.
Travis' last face pic haunts me. I can't imagine what he felt at that moment. I wish I knew what his killer was doing right then. He looks awfully solemn, like he knows what's next and he's hoping he can make it out alive.

 

[RickshawFan]

Geevee, I've looked at the pic from Juan Martinez' book and there are no 'toes' in the picture. I've looked very closely to ensure I see what you are seeing as I was intrigued by the 'ghostly toe' theory. The pic on the left has no toes. The pic you blew up - on the right has ghostly fingers, not toes. There is a gold ring on one of the fingers. Please could you confirm you see the gold ring?

As I posted before, the image used on the right has picked up fingers from the person sitting in front of the monitor in court. The glare is reflecting the fingers and a trace of those is seen on the pic you posted. They don't look at all like toes. Not only that but if they were, the angle of the 'toes' makes no sense in the context of the photo.

Those are EF's fingers.

 

[RickshawFan]

Remember the video of Travis telling the story of how he froze in fear when a gun was pointed at him in the past? Arias' had her head on his lap, fake sleeping - when he told that story. Arias also kept emphasising that she had always been told, blah blah blah that if someone pointed a gun at you, you stopped. Given that the gun was old and perhaps not used often, is it possible that it did not work properly? In her ninja tale she weaves in that the gun was pointed at HER head but didn't go off. Did she bring the knife as a backup? Wouldn't it have been far cleaner for her to have shot him in the shower? Even Arias could have worked that one out.

If Travis was forced to a sitting position and the gun jammed, she must have had the knife at the ready. Both weapons had to be on her. Is that when the camera was dropped? The time it would have taken her to switch weapons would have been less than it would have taken for Travis to lunge from a sitting position.

"Sometimes I think she shot him because she was so mad that he didn't die in the shower with his blood running neatly down the drain. Then she'd leave. Now there's no possible way to clean up the scene. Even if she mopped up every drop in the bathroom floor the carpet is beyond cleaning. The walls are bloody, the baseboards. She's also cut and knows some of her blood is there. Maybe she hoped there was so much that hers would go unnoticed?"

Yes. She was furious and panicked that he put up so much resistance. Her rage is reflected in every stab wound. My instinct is that the shower pics were forced at gunpoint. Travis is meek in them to an extent that appears strange for a muscle flexing guy. During that time in the shower she probably got some of her venom out. To not have had a say seems so unlike the psychopath. That last haunting sitting pick - where Travis looks shocked and angry - what was she saying then?

Regarding the two weapons, my feeling is that one was backup. She threw a red herring into the phone call with Detective Flores - to deflect his focus from her. She did this continually. The ninja tale seemed like it was made up later on, after she knew she had to admit being there. She probably thought about it overnight and we could see her stitching it together before our very eyes in the interview with EF. We will never know, I guess. If Arias does speak up, who would trust her to tell the truth?

The problem with any of the shower scenarios is that they are missing a critical fact, IMO. They describe a situation where the victim has no history of PTSD. Recall that TA was very severely abused as a child. He could very easily have dissociated if JA had a gun fixed on him in the shower, or even if he sensed any kind of threat. Dissociation can look like "pretend nothing is happening" or it could make a person freeze. I don't believe we can assume there is any rationality in TA's response in the shower.

And what did he do when he was a kid and anticipated violence? He turned his back. Look how often his back is vulnerable. Look at how he's twisted away from JA while on the floor of the shower. A PTSD reaction is a factor in whatever is taking place: rationality doesn't have anything to do with it. IMO.

 

[pocketaccent]

Re the haunting face photo:

No way she take that photo at such a tense moment. Travis would have attacked his killer with a gun or knife if he could. He wouldn't just sit there staring at his killer unless he figured he'd better not move. He knew he was in imminent danger. That's what Travis is speaking to me.

So the photographer had to be in immense tension too because she herself would have felt the danger of being overpowered by him. Certainly no time to crouch down and take a pretty good photo.

I believe she had the camera on a video mode. Both her hands are free and ready to attack. She wanted to watch the video later ..sick and evil. And pausing the video and capturing images are not complicated nor lengthy process at all. I think she wanted to look at some images more clearly so she made stills. I'm presently unclear what she planned to do with the memory card afterwards.

She probably was very disappointed with the video. Travis fought back, he stood up and stabbings were not captured too well because the camera was on her waist level from a neck strap. Maybe that's why she just deleted them and didn't bother to take the memory card with her.

I also believe Travis' camera time was off by several hours. :worms:

 

[Deleted member 122533]

The problem with any of the shower scenarios is that they are missing a critical fact, IMO. They describe a situation where the victim has no history of PTSD. Recall that TA was very severely abused as a child. He could very easily have dissociated if JA had a gun fixed on him in the shower, or even if he sensed any kind of threat. Dissociation can look like "pretend nothing is happening" or it could make a person freeze. I don't believe we can assume there is any rationality in TA's response in the shower.

And what did he do when he was a kid and anticipated violence? He turned his back. Look how often his back is vulnerable. Look at how he's twisted away from JA while on the floor of the shower. A PTSD reaction is a factor in whatever is taking place: rationality doesn't have anything to do with it. IMO.

Thinking through the scene entirely from Travis' position - a different perspective on the shower scene. Much appreciated, Rickshawfan. His own words chillingly describe a previous incident when he was in fear of his life - held at gunpoint. I went back to look at them following your post, from just before 3 minutes in:

[video=youtube;LaEzgX5t5TA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaEzgX5t5TA[/video]

Travis - "To think, this is how you die..."

Further background here on this well played clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aagtv5Vxn2A

It's only a five minute video but Arias is right there, processing every word.

 

[Deleted member 122533]

I agree Killer's foot is in motion when that photo is taken. Camera really had to be on the floor for that shot, IMO. The only thing I can't see for sure is that her foot is bare. It could be that things appear differently on different computer screens but to me it looks like a sock (...) IMO.

Please could you explain what you mean by her foot being in motion?

This is the best pic - published in Juan Martinez' book of that scene:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=89470&d=1455670907

I see only one foot, planted firmly on the ground, in a sock. Do you see two feet? Or one in the pic above?

 

[Hope4More]

Re the haunting face photo:

No way she take that photo at such a tense moment. Travis would have attacked his killer with a gun or knife if he could. He wouldn't just sit there staring at his killer unless he figured he'd better not move. He knew he was in imminent danger. That's what Travis is speaking to me.

So the photographer had to be in immense tension too because she herself would have felt the danger of being overpowered by him. Certainly no time to crouch down and take a pretty good photo.

I believe she had the camera on a video mode. Both her hands are free and ready to attack. She wanted to watch the video later ..sick and evil. And pausing the video and capturing images are not complicated nor lengthy process at all. I think she wanted to look at some images more clearly so she made stills. I'm presently unclear what she planned to do with the memory card afterwards.

She probably was very disappointed with the video. Travis fought back, he stood up and stabbings were not captured too well because the camera was on her waist level from a neck strap. Maybe that's why she just deleted them and didn't bother to take the memory card with her.

I also believe Travis' camera time was off by several hours. :worms:

You know I agree about the time stamps.


The last photo of Travis in the shower....I think one's interpretation of his expression is connected to what one believes about whether or not he gave her permission to take photos of him in the shower, and that is based on whether or not he freely had sex and hung out with her that day, and that is based on whether one believes she was able to manipulate him one last time, and that is based on whether or not he really cut off contact with her on May 26, and that is based on what one believes was really happening on May 26 and earlier in May, and whether or not Travis was genuinely afraid of her, afraid of what she might do to destroy his life, and afraid - before May 26- that she might kill herself if he cut her off altogether.


I see anger in his expression. Not fear. Yet...he's sitting down in the shower, the water is on, pouring over his face, and he's not trying to brush it off his face- he seems entirely focused on her. Nothing natural about that, not even if he's trying to accommodate her whims, which I don't believe for a minute.

Because I believe everything I believe up until the shower photos, I'm convinced he was being coerced by her while he was in the shower.

I also believe that at least up until the time he turns, startled, towards the camera, it isn't very likely he believed his life was in danger. Too many minutes go by. Yes, he's naked and vulnerable, but he's standing up, she's only a few feet away, and he is very capable of overpowering her, even if she's holding a gun. If she was at that point.

 

[Hope4More]

Aah... so a message popped up that we only have 15 minutes after posting to edit. That explains a lot.

Am typing on my phone, can't stand getting timed out and losing what I've typed...like I just did anyway, was trying to post in pieces using edit.

Meh.