Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #6

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Sorry, TexMex, but that, IMO, is really out of bounds.

Why would someone repeatedly breaking the Law of Chastity (while still seeing his virginal proper Mormon 19 year old sweetheart) with Jodi consider himself a better Mormon than a young woman in a committed relationship who eloped to Vegas with her fiancé? This after he's already gone through the repentance process after having relations with Deanna.

All I'm saying is if he indeed "didn't respect her as a proper Mormon" then he hadn't looked in the mirror.
 
Why would someone repeatedly breaking the Law of Chastity (while still seeing his virginal proper Mormon 19 year old sweetheart) with Jodi consider himself a better Mormon than a young woman in a committed relationship who eloped to Vegas with her fiancé? This after he's already gone through the repentance process after having relations with Deanna.

All I'm saying is if he indeed "didn't respect her as a proper Mormon" then he hadn't looked in the mirror.


Peace.
 
I'm pretty sure Travis neither liked or disliked, or looked down on Rachel. He was just manipulated by 🤬🤬🤬. That's all.
The constant and zealous threatening by the 🤬🤬🤬 eventually made him go to his Bishop in Jan 08 though.
 
I'm pretty sure Travis neither liked or disliked, or looked down on Rachel. He was just manipulated by 🤬🤬🤬. That's all.
The constant and zealous threatening by the 🤬🤬🤬 eventually made him go to his Bishop in Jan 08 though.


Could well have been about January timing. Whenever ago, reviewing the Gchat and the last week in May, I wondered if the urgency Travis felt about coming clean with Lisa was in any way related to the events of mid-May on, and perhaps specific indirect threats by the 🤬🤬🤬.
 
Pocket- what do you think about the list she wrote? The good story with receipts thing?
 
Ouch, TexMex. Why go there?

I was just replying to your description of Travis "not respecting" Miss Rachel. If that's true then I take issue with his position. Rachel probably was struggling with some of the same issues he was and should be looked at as a fellow church member going through something similar to him (Law of Chastity issues) and he shouldn't judge her as less than or someone not to associate with.

That being said, maybe he disliked her for other reasons not church related.

Travis was a guy struggling with himself. IMO he had issues with women perhaps due to his mother hurting him as a child. He in no way deserved what his mother did nor what Jodi did.
 
I was just replying to your description of Travis "not respecting" Miss Rachel. If that's true then I take issue with his position. Rachel probably was struggling with some of the same issues he was and should be looked at as a fellow church member going through something similar to him (Law of Chastity issues) and he shouldn't judge her as less than or someone not to associate with.

That being said, maybe he disliked her for other reasons not church related.

Travis was a guy struggling with himself. IMO he had issues with women perhaps due to his mother hurting him as a child. He in no way deserved what his mother did nor what Jodi did.


Peace out, moving on.....;)
 
Credit: Beth Karas on Crime subscription website. From 🤬🤬🤬's journal:
 

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Pocket- what do you think about the list she wrote? The good story with receipts thing?
Not pocket, but it tells me she thought out her "I was never in AZ", I have the gas receipts to prove it (gas can idea) back then. So murder was on her mind, that's why she had to keep accurate receipts.
 
Peace out, moving on.....;)

I'm so proud of you Hope.

I happen to agree with you most of the time (we think alike) but I sincerely appreciate Tex for his candid opinions too.
Tex' (who unfortunately experienced BPD incidents personally, therefore more knowledgeable about BPD and its victims) opinion makes me undecided about some items on June 4th. eg, how did Travis react when 🤬🤬🤬 showed up.
 
Pocket- what do you think about the list she wrote? The good story with receipts thing?

Well, Gus probably told peeps PPL is not a hobby but a serious business venture. To 🤬🤬🤬, it was her dating-marriage-sex.com. So no, not a hobby.

🤬🤬🤬 did open another checking account so she can promptly overdraw. She followed Gus' suggestion of separating business from personal finances, probably.

A good story to match the receipts. Receipts are good thing and serve many purposes. Maybe Gus was telling his pupils to save all receipts for tax purposes. And I'm sure Gus whips out his receipts for expensive purchases for show off purposes to his lady friends.
They can also exonerate you if you are planning to kill someone out-of-state. It's interesting she wrote 'a good story to match the receipt' instead of 'save all receipts for your deductions'. Yes, I think she realized from Gus' sermon that receipts and lack of receipts in certain places tell a good story.
 
OT
Took my grandson (he's 6) to see Jungle Book earlier today. Very good movie.
Now out for some burgers and wings
Y'all behave while I'm gone...
 
Travis was in no position to look down on anyone's Mormon cred...jmo

Couldn't agree more. One of the disturbing aspects of this case was the struggle around religion and obeying the rules.The pressure on Travis to behave in a certain way relating to chastity was huge. It's very different to the norm for young men in Western society. This led to a perceived distance between him and some friends. So much stress and worry about being judged. Arias played this to the max, betting that she could create drama and negative judgement re sex. Detective Flores burst that bubble for her in the interview room.

Travis' friends and family showed their intense love for him - illustrating what really mattered without judgement around chastity. They held their heads high during the sex tapes showing Arias that they would not let their brother be shamed. Travis was a normal man in an abnormal situation. He wasn't in a position to judge others, I agree. Life is a struggle for us all at times. We all slip, say things we regret. Luckily, we don't have a psychopathic murderer recording every small transgression - or inventing some.
 
That's my guess too, about threatening Travis with his bishop, and that she did it frequently, but always veiled as a concern for his or her own spiritual well being.

This was one of the most irritating things about her - from a very long list. Dressing up her self-interest and selfishness as concern. When she dared to bring in spirituality, it made me want to scream. She was a moral guide. A shining hypocrite. The Arias Police For The Prevention Of Vice and Promotion of Virtue. She wanted to guide Ryan Burns too. The audacity of it is mind-blowing.
 
OK, this is kind of creepy, maybe.

I skimmed through her journal entries for end of March 2008, remembering she wrote about Rachel again then (she did), and saw something I hadn't before.

She stayed days later in Mesa than first planned, and one thing she did was attend a PPL training in Tempe (Tuesday...April 2 or 3). Definitely not because she was the slightest bit interested in PPL, but maybe because sje knew Gus was doing the training.

Her PPL notes were typically very detailed about what interested her most (sporadic attention, no doubt), or she would say she was at training or wherever and do all but doodle to make it look like she was actually paying attention.

That Tuesday she took very few notes, and at the end of them she wrote--

1. (PPL is not a hobby).
2." 2 checking accounts"
3. "Good story to go with receipts"

Reading into that after the fact, or.....?



The Rachel thing--I think she was real. The 🤬🤬🤬 wrote about her on and off in her journals, in entries that predated her wholesale fiction writing post-murder.

The 🤬🤬🤬 lies to cover up or blur even little details. My guess is she found Rachel on LDS link up, and didn't know her from squat before that (she'd lied to Travis about already having friends in Mesa) , and that Rachel was likely not the best Mormon ever (if she had to break the seal or whatever it sounds like she'd already been married once, not to mention she was apparently living with her BF, not to mention eloping to Las Vegas, to be followed by a wedding on the beach).

None of that screams Mormon, which makes the 🤬🤬🤬's story even more ludicrous, that Rachel the observant urged the 🤬🤬🤬 to go unburden herself to her bishop about breaking the law of chastity. If Travis knew of and if he disliked Rachel, I'd bet it was because he didn't respect her as a Mormon.

((It's a 🤬🤬🤬 specialty to reverse reality....Rachel being looked down upon Travis (which 🤬🤬🤬 would see as an insult directed at herself) becomes Rachel the better Mormon than Travis....))

What is the significance of two checking accounts? I never did figure out why she had to have more than one bank account.
 
This was one of the most irritating things about her - from a very long list. Dressing up her self-interest and selfishness as concern. When she dared to bring in spirituality, it made me want to scream. She was a moral guide. A shining hypocrite. The Arias Police For The Prevention Of Vice and Promotion of Virtue. She wanted to guide Ryan Burns too. The audacity of it is mind-blowing.


Sky said when Travis would try and break away she'd cry and remind him he'd baptised her.
 
What is the significance of two checking accounts? I never did figure out why she had to have more than one bank account.


One for personal use, one for business, theoretically. Except....she didn't have a business, except in her imagination, and she left PPL behind even before she left Mesa. But...having a business account probably meant the same thing to her as actually having a business. And...I think she had 2 for hinky reasons unknown. JM kinda hinted at that indirectly, maybe, with his post-trial observations about the DT's curious focus on those murder trip deposits?
 
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