Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #6

[Hope4More]

he's still be, and still be the man those who knew him and loved him thought him to be, had not the chose him to destroy then kill, then to destroy him again with her vicious ugly lies.

the wanted Travis dead, then she wanted the world to believe he did not really reject her at the end, that he did not mean what he said on May 26, not really, that .....and that...

he did, and he did. that's why he's dead.

and that's really enough for me about all of this. her words and her thoughts and everything about her mean nothing because she is nothing, and as far as I'm concerned, she can't fade away or be banished altogether into nothingness fast enough.

 

[TexMex]

I've quoted the points most pertinent above.

Travis' childhood is well documented. By Travis himself and others. Drug and alcohol abuse are, regrettably, not uncommon. Child neglect too. The scars of childhood come with many to adulthood. Some people cope with those well. Some don't. To argue that Travis may have struggled with relationships or commitment is one thing. To suggest he was raped - when evidence supports consensual sexual activity strongly - is a 'hypothesis' very far removed from what juries accepted.

Rape of men by woman is possible but statistically small. 2011 United States 2011 statistics below:


http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss6308a1.htm

"In the United States, an estimated 19.3% of women and 1.7% of men have been raped during their lifetimes..."

Most of the men raped are raped by other men. The statistic for women raping men is even smaller than 1.7%.

"Male rape victims predominantly had male perpetrators..."

As for suicide threats from dramatists and stalkers, the most stable of people receive these. Murder made a psychological evaluation impossible on Travis himself. Many people have insecurities regardless of upbringing. Travis was a victim of murder. Making him a victim of his childhood - when he rose magnificently above it, in my opinion - by suggesting that made him vulnerable to rape - doesn't add up.

Looking at your hypothesis - even *if* that was true - most factors for risk of rape are not related to Travis' childhood. The evidence suggests consent. Travis' problems with Arias stem mostly from Arias being dysfunctional and easily identifiable issues around sex and religion. I'm not labelling Travis as anything but a victim of a psychopathic murderer.

I agree. He liked the sex. These relationships can be very tricky

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2010/06/21/borderline-personality-disorder-and-sex.html


And, borderline experts say, is what makes partners with this particularly disorder so engaging at first. “Successful men who may be obsessional, who tend to suppress emotion, can go for the passion,” presented by a relationship with a borderline, says Frank Yeomans, a BPD expert and clinical associate professor of psychiatry at the Weill Medical College of Cornell University. "They say to themselves, 'She fills an intensity that's missing from my life.'"

 

[Deleted member 122533]

Interesting article. The drama. The sex. More drama. More sex. The other element was that sex was forbidden fruit for both of them (Arias faking the religion, of course, and the phone sex). By offering Travis sex - she automatically disqualified herself from being wife material. Not the brightest psychopath in the box but it was all she had.

 

[salberg7]

I was home sick yesterday and watched video of the trial - including Nurmi's cross of Vernon Parker. Nurmi was obnoxious and treated that man with no respect whatsoever. Really surprised me as I hadn't watched the retrial except for the killer's "secret" testimony. Travis stayed with Vernon Parker in 1999-2000. How fresh could the Bishop's memory be? Nurmi tried to humiliate him and make him out to be a liar. I also watched a bit of his cross of Dr Demarte - he was the same with her. I have zero respect for Nurmi, who asked Dr.Demarte how much she was paid for her work on the case ($300 per hour) when we all know he was making $225 per hour as part of his contract to stay to defend the killer. Lord knows how many hours he billed. Dr Demarte held her ground, as did Bishop Parker. All for the killer's defense which was based on lies and Nurmi knew that.
I also watched the sentencing hearing when the killer stated Travis was conscious before she slit his throat. So evil. She is where she belongs. She would have killed again if not arrested. The killer revelled in the attention she received during her trial. I am so pleased that now she gets none.

 

[TexMex]

I was home sick yesterday and watched video of the trial - including Nurmi's cross of Vernon Parker. Nurmi was obnoxious and treated that man with no respect whatsoever. Really surprised me as I hadn't watched the retrial except for the killer's "secret" testimony. Travis stayed with Vernon Parker in 1999-2000. How fresh could the Bishop's memory be? Nurmi tried to humiliate him and make him out to be a liar. I also watched a bit of his cross of Dr Demarte - he was the same with her. I have zero respect for Nurmi, who asked Dr.Demarte how much she was paid for her work on the case ($300 per hour) when we all know he was making $225 per hour as part of his contract to stay to defend the killer. Lord knows how many hours he billed. Dr Demarte held her ground, as did Bishop Parker. All for the killer's defense which was based on lies and Nurmi knew that.
I also watched the sentencing hearing when the killer stated Travis was conscious before she slit his throat. So evil. She is where she belongs. She would have killed again if not arrested. The killer revelled in the attention she received during her trial. I am so pleased that now she gets none.

In karas podcast with FBI profiler Clemente he too said she was absolutely capable of killing again.

 

[TexMex]

This author has many articles on BPD

http://gettinbetter.com/anatomy.html

I'm often asked if borderline disordered individuals can commit murder. The answer is yes, depending on how deep their pathology runs. They're capable of acting-out unresolved anger (from childhood) by inflicting physical harm to anyone who's close--which can include their child or partner. They are lacking in empathy and impulse control, which allows these violent acts to happen, and our prison system houses many Borderlines who've killed during a fit of rage.

In the midst of mending from these intoxicating but dangerous relationships, hundreds of men have described a terrifying "demonic" influence that appears to inhabit their beloved when she's confronted with her lying, manipulations and betrayals--or some sort of (minor) infraction on their part, has catalyzed the most horrifying change in her facial expression. Many have reported; "it's like sparks flew out of her eyes," or "there's such a cold and hideous mask" that showed up, they couldn't recognize the woman they've loved so deeply. If looks could kill, they believe they'd be dead after one of these episodes!

 

[Deleted member 122533]

I also watched the sentencing hearing when the killer stated Travis was conscious before she slit his throat. So evil. She is where she belongs. She would have killed again if not arrested. The killer revelled in the attention she received during her trial. I am so pleased that now she gets none.

This author has many articles on BPD

http://gettinbetter.com/anatomy.html

I'm often asked if borderline disordered individuals can commit murder. The answer is yes, depending on how deep their pathology runs. They're capable of acting-out unresolved anger (from childhood) by inflicting physical harm to anyone who's close--which can include their child or partner. They are lacking in empathy and impulse control, which allows these violent acts to happen, and our prison system houses many Borderlines who've killed during a fit of rage.

Salsberg7, TexMex:

Didn't Nurmi also address Dr DeMarte as "Doctor Death'? In my opinion she would have killed again if she hadn't been arrested. She isn't safe to be around human beings - in prison or out.

 

[TexMex]

In reading I've come to realize Travis may have been a "Caregiver, Rescuer, Fixer" type personality.


These "rescuers" have often suffered severe emotional trauma at the hand of an abusive parent incapable of providing the affection and emotional nourishment necessary in order to learn how to love in a healthy way. They were deeply wounded at their very core and carry the scars of lovelessness, low self worth, and self-loathing.
Males like this often get involved with clingy dysfunctional borderline women who fill the void in them left by their emotionally inadequate mothers.

 

[Hope4More]

May 2. Full court record to be delivered to 's attorneys by today.

 

[salberg7]

Yes Trialwatcher Nurmi did call Dr Demarte "Dr Death", I couldn't believe it. He also made a motion simulating a person assaulting their spouse with drama because he asked Demarte something about whether she thought one isolated episode of domestic violence constituted a pattern. She said "no" and that's when he made that overly dramatic "slap" motion and said well, one episode to you (meaning Dr D) is irrelevant, his voice dripping with sarcasm. Nurmi is a Juan wannabe and it backfired. I don't think he nor Wilmott are very good attorneys, Wilmott even objected during Juan's impact statement at sentencing- when Juan stated the killer and her defense team called Travis a pedophile. Wilmott cried "Objection" & JSS overruled her. For them to deny they accused Travis of pedophilia was a bunch of BS. They most certainly did.

 

[salberg7]

May 2. Full court record to be delivered to 's attorneys by today.

Great. The quicker her appeal gets denied. When do you all think it will be decided, September?
I hope each day drags for her as she sits in her cell and dreams of freedom.

 

[Deleted member 122533]

Yes Trialwatcher Nurmi did call Dr Demarte "Dr Death", I couldn't believe it. He also made a motion simulating a person assaulting their spouse with drama because he asked Demarte something about whether she thought one isolated episode of domestic violence constituted a pattern. She said "no" and that's when he made that overly dramatic "slap" motion and said well, one episode to you (meaning Dr D) is irrelevant, his voice dripping with sarcasm. Nurmi is a Juan wannabe and it backfired. I don't think he nor Wilmott are very good attorneys, Wilmott even objected during Juan's impact statement at sentencing- when Juan stated the killer and her defense team called Travis a pedophile. Wilmott cried "Objection" & JSS overruled her. For them to deny they accused Travis of pedophilia was a bunch of BS. They most certainly did.

I must rewatch that part. What a pair of liars :liar::liar: they are re Travis. I have tried to be fair to Arias' defence team. It's was obvious Nurmi couldn't stand her throughout the trial and having her as a client must be hell. Someone had to do the job and I hope they did it well enough keep her inside for life. Yet the points you raise damn them. They lied in the face of evidence from their own client. This looked incompetent to the jury. For example - even when Arias stated she returned the gas can (to the exact same store she bought it from) Nurmi ignores it and tries to lie it away. The claims about Travis were revolting. They knew they were untrue. Yet a stupid defence story was presented in character assassinating detail. Nurmi probably has nightmares about her. I have not a jot of sympathy.

 

[TexMex]

The high in Goodyear AZ is supposed to be 102. Great conditions to wait for your doomed appeal to be denied

 

[Hope4More]

appeal.

AZL was kind enough to answer the question-- will her appeal be handled as a capital or a non-capital case?

Answer: non-capital, so the process will be shorter in every regard, including time allowed for the filing of briefs. The clock started today. 40 days, iirc..

 

[TexMex]

appeal.

AZL was kind enough to answer the question-- will her appeal be handled as a capital or a non-capital case?

Answer: non-capital, so the process will be shorter in every regard, including time allowed for the filing of briefs. The clock started today. 40 days, iirc..

Non capital because no death penalty

 

[Hope4More]

Non capital because no death penalty

Well, yes, but there was room to wonder since, despite her sentence, the 's trials were adjudicated as capital cases. AZL, as always, to the rescue.

 

[TexMex]

Went out. Great meal followed by banana Foster cheesecake

 

[krkrjx]

I must rewatch that part. What a pair of liars :liar::liar: they are re Travis. I have tried to be fair to Arias' defence team. It's was obvious Nurmi couldn't stand her throughout the trial and having her as a client must be hell. Someone had to do the job and I hope they did it well enough keep her inside for life. Yet the points you raise damn them. They lied in the face of evidence from their own client. This looked incompetent to the jury. For example - even when Arias stated she returned the gas can (to the exact same store she bought it from) Nurmi ignores it and tries to lie it away. The claims about Travis were revolting. They knew they were untrue. Yet a stupid defence story was presented in character assassinating detail. Nurmi probably has nightmares about her. I have not a jot of sympathy.

The defense attorneys were despicable in their chosen method of defense. I suppose even when lawyers hate their client and know they are guilty, they prefer to win, if for no other reason than it looks better on their resume.

 

[TexMex]

The defense attorneys were despicable in their chosen method of defense. I suppose even when lawyers hate their client and know they are guilty, they prefer to win, if for no other reason than it looks better on their resume.

IMO it's the DP that contributes to some of the defense tactics. They feel "justified" presenting whatever evidence they think will prevent the client from getting the DP. They are "saving a life".
Same sort of thing happened in David Westerfield trial, DP on the table. This monster kidnapped a neighbor child, raped her then threw her in the desert like trash. He was arrested and literally in a room with detectives and his lawyer about to accept a plea for life in prison in exchange for telling authorities where a 7 year old girls body was. The same day hikers discovered her body. The DA took the deal off the table and DP back for a trial.
During the trial the defense, knowing their guy did it...put the girl's parents on trial. He's in San Quentin on death row but only after dragging his innocent victim's grieving parents through the mud

 

[Deleted member 122533]

The defense attorneys were despicable in their chosen method of defense. I suppose even when lawyers hate their client and know they are guilty, they prefer to win, if for no other reason than it looks better on their resume.

IMO it's the DP that contributes to some of the defense tactics. They feel "justified" presenting whatever evidence they think will prevent the client from getting the DP. They are "saving a life".
Same sort of thing happened in David Westerfield trial, DP on the table. This monster kidnapped a neighbor child, raped her then threw her in the desert like trash. He was arrested and literally in a room with detectives and his lawyer about to accept a plea for life in prison in exchange for telling authorities where a 7 year old girls body was. The same day hikers discovered her body. The DA took the deal off the table and DP back for a trial.
During the trial the defense, knowing their guy did it...put the girl's parents on trial. He's in San Quentin on death row but only after dragging his innocent victim's grieving parents through the mud

Krkrjx, Texmex,

Both these points illustrate the frustrations and cruelty of the system to families. Successfully let a hideous murderer escape a death sentence - what a noble CV addition. Assassinate the character of the victim or the victim's families. Truth matters little in saving the precious lives of evil, barbaric murderers. Protesting against the death sentence excuses any tactics, distortions or hurtful lies. The Westerfield trial - I hadn't heard of it. Deeply upsetting to learn of the additional pain he put the family through. How very 'Arias' of him.