Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #7

[RickshawFan]

Rickshaw.....we made it to the McClonkley petroglyphs! They were well worth the trip- thanks!

Scampering up there was fun, huh? So glad you found them!

 

[RickshawFan]

Jodi tells Flores that she literally stranded when she ran out of gas (this was before the gas cans saving money story). took a nap, cleaned up a little bit and discovered her charger under the passenger seat, and plugs it in to charge. Flores questions the time of her being lost/stranded (18 hours?), and she backtracks and says that she somehow got on I 10 in California and started seeing signs for Phoenix, but wasn't concerned because it was hundreds of miles away.

I think her route was down 10 to Mesa up, then 93 to 40 and into Kingman and up to the Dam. You also don't go stealth all the way to Mesa, then hang out a sign, She parked around there

Are we to understand that she never got stranded and ran out of gas at this point? She had to have plugged the phone in when she got to the vicinity of AZ Last Stop. I doubt there was a "getting stranded" scene for real. She might have bought some gas though, gone in for a burger, recharged the phone, ditched the weapons, had a private moment with a vulnerable trucker...

She ran out of gas near Winnemucca as well?Who does that?

 

[RickshawFan]

Does that still hold if she did stop and fill up in Buckeye as she had testified? Granted she had said she'd stopped in Desert Center(CA) too but perhaps it was already closed, or she got scared stopping so late at night in such a desolate place(see Maran's site), or she initially thought she had enough gas until it was so late and so empty she had no choice but to take the chance on Buckeye(AZ)? If she'd paid cash and didn't save the receipt, there's a good chance noone would ever be able to verify it, thus giving her enough gas to take the detour up through Havasu after she'd left Mesa. I just keep recalling the sun in her eyes as she'd left Mesa.. not something that would have been an issue if she'd been going north up 93, right?

"On the stand Jodi Arias claims she went from Pasadena, CA to Mesa, AZ, but she stopped for gas at Desert Center, CA and at Buckeye, AZ.
Problem: It’s only 174 miles from Pasadena to Desert Center or 5.8 gallons of gas. Jodi Arias claims to also stop at Buckeye Arizona which is only 170 miles from Desert Center or 5.7 gallons. If she made a mistake, and only stopped at Buckeye, AZ, this is 344 miles or about 11.5 gallons, a little too far to go according to Jodi’s habit of not letting the gas gauge get in the red.”" spotlightonlaw.wordpress .com/the-tables-have-turned-part-2-july-26/

Sun in her eyes. She'd have been driving west, north, and northwest. The sun would have been in her eyes many times. It would likely have shone below her visor flap. She also may have invented this detail.

 

[geevee]

Does that still hold if she did stop and fill up in Buckeye as she had testified? Granted she had said she'd stopped in Desert Center(CA) too but perhaps it was already closed, or she got scared stopping so late at night in such a desolate place(see Maran's site), or she initially thought she had enough gas until it was so late and so empty she had no choice but to take the chance on Buckeye(AZ)? If she'd paid cash and didn't save the receipt, there's a good chance noone would ever be able to verify it, thus giving her enough gas to take the detour up through Havasu after she'd left Mesa. I just keep recalling the sun in her eyes as she'd left Mesa.. not something that would have been an issue if she'd been going north up 93, right?

"On the stand Jodi Arias claims she went from Pasadena, CA to Mesa, AZ, but she stopped for gas at Desert Center, CA and at Buckeye, AZ.
Problem: It’s only 174 miles from Pasadena to Desert Center or 5.8 gallons of gas. Jodi Arias claims to also stop at Buckeye Arizona which is only 170 miles from Desert Center or 5.7 gallons. If she made a mistake, and only stopped at Buckeye, AZ, this is 344 miles or about 11.5 gallons, a little too far to go according to Jodi’s habit of not letting the gas gauge get in the red.”" spotlightonlaw.wordpress .com/the-tables-have-turned-part-2-july-26/

The defense tried quite hard to make her trip to Mesa seem un-skulky and totally expected by Travis, it seems to me they at least would have visited both gas stations to try to find an employee who rang up her cash gas purchase (since we know it wouldn't have been by credit card) to prove she had purchased gas in AZ and wasn't on the down low, but apparently failed as no witness ever appeared.

If she did buy gas in either location, along with what she had in the cans, she'd have had enough to make the Havasu detour - and just like her blurting out 'those pictures were on my camera before', the one about the sun in her eyes also struck me as her not having thought before she spoke, which would lend credibility to those statements (hard for me to say that about her but it's just the way it hit me at the time).

 

[Hope4More]

Sun in her eyes. She'd have been driving west, north, and northwest. The sun would have been in her eyes many times. It would likely have shone below her visor flap. She also may have invented this detail.

If she left around 6pm, it would have taken her at least an hour to drive out of the congested neighborhoods of Mesa, heading north to 60. No other route. Sun in her eyes on 60, more sun as she got off on 10 heading west from 60, which again, no matter her route, she would have done. If she went north on 17 to 40, no sun in her eyes until there wouldn't have been much if any significant sun when she reached Flagstaff and went west for 177 miles to Kingman.

The obvious problem with trying to figure out exact details is that the lies, including lies about completely inconsequential things, perhaps just for the sport of the thing.

Having sun in her eyes- she would have, on 10. Getting gas in Buckeye, all the rest- who knows, but I still think she felt the need to go the fastest route out of AZ into a part of Nevada not too distant from the route she was supposed to be on to Ryan's, so IMO, that excludes circling around on 40 through Havasu then going out of her way to go over Hoover dam instead of avoiding it.

 

[Hope4More]

Eastern Utah, near border of Colorado, past Moab and Arches.

In Leadville, Colorado, about to go eat steak.

 

[Val1]

If she left around 6pm, it would have taken her at least an hour to drive out of the congested neighborhoods of Mesa, heading north to 60. No other route. Sun in her eyes on 60, more sun as she got off on 10 heading west from 60, which again, no matter her route, she would have done. If she went north on 17 to 40, no sun in her eyes until there wouldn't have been much if any significant sun when she reached Flagstaff and went west for 177 miles to Kingman.

The obvious problem with trying to figure out exact details is that the lies, including lies about completely inconsequential things, perhaps just for the sport of the thing.

Having sun in her eyes- she would have, on 10. Getting gas in Buckeye, all the rest- who knows, but I still think she felt the need to go the fastest route out of AZ into a part of Nevada not too distant from the route she was supposed to be on to Ryan's, so IMO, that excludes circling around on 40 through Havasu then going out of her way to go over Hoover dam instead of avoiding it.

This was the route I was thinking...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pasadena, CA, USA to Buckeye, AZ, USA
4 h 54 min [4 h 41 min without traffic]
(344 miles) via I-10 E

Buckeye, AZ, USA to Mesa, AZ, USA
56 min [55 min without traffic]
(56.4 miles) via I-10 E

Then after...heading due west, perhaps with the thought of getting onto 95 and straight up to LV, got disoriented/tired and ended up making the turn onto the 95 up to Havasu instead of the 95 by Ehrenberg.

Mesa, AZ, USA to Quartzsite, AZ, USA
2 h 7 min [2 h 2 min without traffic]
(144 miles) via I-10 W

Quartzsite, AZ, USA to Lake Havasu City, AZ, USA
1 h 21 min [1 h 17 min without traffic]
(74.1 miles) via AZ-95 N

Lake Havasu City, AZ, USA to Kingman, AZ, USA
1 h 1 min [58 min without traffic]
(60.0 miles) via I-40 W and AZ-95 S

Kingman, AZ, USA to Hoover Dam, United States
1 h 11 min [1 h 7 min without traffic]
(75.3 miles) via US-93 N

Hoover Dam, United States to Mesquite, NV, USA
1 h 50 min [1 h 46 min without traffic]
(119 miles) via I-15 N

Mesquite, NV, USA to Salt Lake City, UT, USA
4 h 46 min [4 h 30 min without traffic]
(340 miles) via I-15 N
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Val1]

The defense tried quite hard to make her trip to Mesa seem un-skulky and totally expected by Travis, it seems to me they at least would have visited both gas stations to try to find an employee who rang up her cash gas purchase (since we know it wouldn't have been by credit card) to prove she had purchased gas in AZ and wasn't on the down low, but apparently failed as no witness ever appeared.

If she did buy gas in either location, along with what she had in the cans, she'd have had enough to make the Havasu detour - and just like her blurting out 'those pictures were on my camera before', the one about the sun in her eyes also struck me as her not having thought before she spoke, which would lend credibility to those statements (hard for me to say that about her but it's just the way it hit me at the time).

BBM - I wonder how many years until they decided to perhaps do that though... gas attendants aren't known to stay at the same job for much longer than it takes to find something better as rule, at least where I live(poor pay for a pretty dangerous job, especially if you work the midnight shift).

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

The Bad Seed, discussed during the trial, is on TCM this morning at 10:00AM (EDT).

 

[RickshawFan]

If she left around 6pm, it would have taken her at least an hour to drive out of the congested neighborhoods of Mesa, heading north to 60. No other route. Sun in her eyes on 60, more sun as she got off on 10 heading west from 60, which again, no matter her route, she would have done. If she went north on 17 to 40, no sun in her eyes until there wouldn't have been much if any significant sun when she reached Flagstaff and went west for 177 miles to Kingman.

The obvious problem with trying to figure out exact details is that the lies, including lies about completely inconsequential things, perhaps just for the sport of the thing.

Having sun in her eyes- she would have, on 10. Getting gas in Buckeye, all the rest- who knows, but I still think she felt the need to go the fastest route out of AZ into a part of Nevada not too distant from the route she was supposed to be on to Ryan's, so IMO, that excludes circling around on 40 through Havasu then going out of her way to go over Hoover dam instead of avoiding it.

I was thinking of the "sun in my eyes" concept in terms of my own experience. When going north, in the late afternoon/evening, the sun can be very annoying. If the road wavers just a little from straight, the sun can get maddeningly in the eyes. It can also be super obnoxious if it is over the left shoulder and the visor won't block it.

On the other hand, "the sun was in my eyes" is the kind of florid flourish worships. It's the same kind of detail as the one with the paper porn photo floating to the floor as such things do. (You all will have to remind me of the florid phrasing.) It's an unnecessary embellishment.

 

[RickshawFan]

This was the route I was thinking...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pasadena, CA, USA to Buckeye, AZ, USA
4 h 54 min [4 h 41 min without traffic]
(344 miles) via I-10 E

Buckeye, AZ, USA to Mesa, AZ, USA
56 min [55 min without traffic]
(56.4 miles) via I-10 E

Then after...heading due west, perhaps with the thought of getting onto 95 and straight up to LV, got disoriented/tired and ended up making the turn onto the 95 up to Havasu instead of the 95 by Ehrenberg.

Mesa, AZ, USA to Quartzsite, AZ, USA
2 h 7 min [2 h 2 min without traffic]
(144 miles) via I-10 W

Quartzsite, AZ, USA to Lake Havasu City, AZ, USA
1 h 21 min [1 h 17 min without traffic]
(74.1 miles) via AZ-95 N

Lake Havasu City, AZ, USA to Kingman, AZ, USA
1 h 1 min [58 min without traffic]
(60.0 miles) via I-40 W and AZ-95 S

Kingman, AZ, USA to Hoover Dam, United States
1 h 11 min [1 h 7 min without traffic]
(75.3 miles) via US-93 N

Hoover Dam, United States to Mesquite, NV, USA
1 h 50 min [1 h 46 min without traffic]
(119 miles) via I-15 N

Mesquite, NV, USA to Salt Lake City, UT, USA
4 h 46 min [4 h 30 min without traffic]
(340 miles) via I-15 N
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not sure I understand why she'd even want to go to Havasu. I could see using I-10 to get inside the CA border and then head north--just to reduce the amount of time in AZ--but why Havasu?

I agree that the DT could have got gas receipts in Buckeye if they existed. They had a time frame for when was in that area.

And it would have been hugely to advantage if she indeed got gas in AZ. This would have made the gas cans irrelevant, and leveled JM's case. Plus, it would have taken the premeditation out of the mix: she could make a convincing case that the trip to Mesa wasn't planned--"See? There was no concealing."

 

[Val1]

I'm not sure I understand why she'd even want to go to Havasu. I could see using I-10 to get inside the CA border and then head north--just to reduce the amount of time in AZ--but why Havasu?

I agree that the DT could have got gas receipts in Buckeye if they existed. They had a time frame for when was in that area.

And it would have been hugely to advantage if she indeed got gas in AZ. This would have made the gas cans irrelevant, and leveled JM's case. Plus, it would have taken the premeditation out of the mix: she could make a convincing case that the trip to Mesa wasn't planned--"See? There was no concealing."

Havasu would be a great spot to dump the gun etc, she was familiar with the area having been there with TA, she'd been there "with" TA, and lastly as I had suggested, it may not have even been a conscious thought as she left Mesa that afternoon/evening. http://www.americansouthwest.net/arizona/lake-havasu/index.html

Note the two 95 routes....


Receipts from Buckeye, I would guess it would depend on how long it took the DT to go looking for them. Heck, the DT changed hands so many times before trial it might have been literally years before their strategy involved looking for them. How long would something like that still be available, let alone employees still employed and able to remember some nondescript dark haired Latino woman in a nondescript white car stopping for a fill up?

 

[RickshawFan]

Havasu would be a great spot to dump the gun etc, she was familiar with the area having been there with TA, she'd been there "with" TA, and lastly as I had suggested, it may not have even been a conscious thought as she left Mesa that afternoon/evening. http://www.americansouthwest.net/arizona/lake-havasu/index.html

Note the two 95 routes....
View attachment 99223

Receipts from Buckeye, I would guess it would depend on how long it took the DT to go looking for them. Heck, the DT changed hands so many times before trial it might have been literally years before their strategy involved looking for them. How long would something like that still be available, let alone employees still employed and able to remember some nondescript dark haired Latino woman in a nondescript white car stopping for a fill up?

When were and TA in Havasu? I evidently missed that detail in the timeline.

I did provide maps upthread of public campgrounds on a couple of the routes including Havasu (where a person could throw evidence in a latrine or burn them in a campfire), but decided Havasu wasn't the only route where those facilities would be on offer.

After H4M's recent trip, it seemed pretty clear there wasn't time to drive via Havasu or deal with evidence before making that call from the vicinity of AZ Last Stop. There was no extra time to speak of. That call had to be made at 10:30 pm.

Regarding the gas, all the DT had to do was to create reasonable doubt. They might not even have needed receipts... could have spun a whole story about which gas station she stopped at, the hamburger she purchased, where she noticed the time, the truck with BARF on the side that she followed...

 

[Val1]

When were and TA in Havasu? I evidently missed that detail in the timeline.

I did provide maps upthread of public campgrounds on a couple of the routes including Havasu (where a person could throw evidence in a latrine or burn them in a campfire), but decided Havasu wasn't the only route where those facilities would be on offer.

After H4M's recent trip, it seemed pretty clear there wasn't time to drive via Havasu or deal with evidence before making that call from the vicinity of AZ Last Stop. There was no extra time to speak of. That call had to be made at 10:30 pm.

Regarding the gas, all the DT had to do was to create reasonable doubt. They might not even have needed receipts... could have spun a whole story about which gas station she stopped at, the hamburger she purchased, where she noticed the time, the truck with BARF on the side that she followed...

My mistake(see below for why**), I was thinking Havasupai Falls(with the Freeman's) was by Havasu... sorry. Anyway, I think the rest stands as a possible route, timewise it would only have taken her 4-4.5 hours to get to Kingman going through Havasu on 95(according to the map estimates), so max 5 hours to get to where she pinged and we really aren't absolutely sure what time she left Mesa, right?

** "Daniel Freeman misunderstood the reason for certain ungentlemanly behavior of Mr. Alexander early on in their trip [in June 2007 to Sedona and the Grand Canyon, and] in September 2007 to Lake Havasu [sic]." callsforjustice .wordpress. com/2013/02/25/jodi-arias-murder-trial-day-twenty-three/

 

[Hope4More]

Havasu would be a great spot to dump the gun etc, she was familiar with the area having been there with TA, she'd been there "with" TA, and lastly as I had suggested, it may not have even been a conscious thought as she left Mesa that afternoon/evening. http://www.americansouthwest.net/arizona/lake-havasu/index.html

Note the two 95 routes....
View attachment 99223

Receipts from Buckeye, I would guess it would depend on how long it took the DT to go looking for them. Heck, the DT changed hands so many times before trial it might have been literally years before their strategy involved looking for them. How long would something like that still be available, let alone employees still employed and able to remember some nondescript dark haired Latino woman in a nondescript white car stopping for a fill up?

I think like much else her precise route can't be known with any certainty, though at this point it seems fairly certain she did go on 93 and over the dam.

Part of why the details are unknowable is that our rational deductions likely don't reflect her actual psychopathic mind and decisions. For all we know she was laughing and feeling euphoric the whole drive to Kingman, and not the slightest bit concerned about the possibility of being caught en route out of Arizona.

IMO the route she took, though, was predetermined and very deliberate. I don't believe she was ever lost. I found routes, roads, destinations, and mileage to be very clearly signed all through that part of Arizona, and she had traveled the Las Vegas to Mesa via 93 route in both directions just months before she murdered Travis.

btw, rest stops along the way on 17 and 40 would have more than sufficed as places to ditch whatever she wanted, especially after dark. There typically are dumpsters and large trash cans in the parking lots, and often enough, they are located away from the main reststop building. As well, in my experience, folks don't typically linger at stops; most peeps are in and out, very focused on their own travel, and pretty oblivious to others, especially when travelling after dark.

 

[Hope4More]

Sunset in Leadville last night, from the back porch of our hotel. That's an alpine lake, and the visible peaks are all 14,000 and some odd hundreds of feet.

We lingered in the Rockies for the day; witnessed a woman get assaulted at a gas station in Alamosa, Colorado and the perp (boyfriend, possibly) get arrested, handcuffed, and hauled away (very disturbing and scary); then sped up 25 towards Denver, peeled off onto back roads, hit 70, and have ended up in Oakley, Kansas.

My DS agrees- time to go home, so no southern route, just another 24 odd hours driving due east on dreary interstate 70 until home.

 

[RickshawFan]

My mistake(see below for why**), I was thinking Havasupai Falls(with the Freeman's) was by Havasu... sorry. Anyway, I think the rest stands as a possible route, timewise it would only have taken her 4-4.5 hours to get to Kingman going through Havasu on 95(according to the map estimates), so max 5 hours to get to where she pinged and we really aren't absolutely sure what time she left Mesa, right?

** "Daniel Freeman misunderstood the reason for certain ungentlemanly behavior of Mr. Alexander early on in their trip [in June 2007 to Sedona and the Grand Canyon, and] in September 2007 to Lake Havasu [sic]." callsforjustice .wordpress. com/2013/02/25/jodi-arias-murder-trial-day-twenty-three/

Oh, okay. I thought that might have been what happened. Havasupai is in the Grand Canyon.

 

[FinallyRegistered]

My DS agrees- time to go home, so no southern route, just another 24 odd hours driving due east on dreary interstate 70 until home.

RSBM - This makes me sad that you won't be coming back through I-40, but those kitties will be soooo happy to have you back home. Safe travels!!

 

[salberg7]

Have s safe trip home, Hope. I just got home from a road trip of my own but only 200 miles away. Had a great trip! There's no place like home, after all!

 

[salberg7]

I think like much else her precise route can't be known with any certainty, though at this point it seems fairly certain she did go on 93 and over the dam.

Part of why the details are unknowable is that our rational deductions likely don't reflect her actual psychopathic mind and decisions. For all we know she was laughing and feeling euphoric the whole drive to Kingman, and not the slightest bit concerned about the possibility of being caught en route out of Arizona.

IMO the route she took, though, was predetermined and very deliberate. I don't believe she was ever lost. I found routes, roads, destinations, and mileage to be very clearly signed all through that part of Arizona, and she had traveled the Las Vegas to Mesa via 93 route in both directions just months before she murdered Travis.

btw, rest stops along the way on 17 and 40 would have more than sufficed as places to ditch whatever she wanted, especially after dark. There typically are dumpsters and large trash cans in the parking lots, and often enough, they are located away from the main reststop building. As well, in my experience, folks don't typically linger at stops; most peeps are in and out, very focused on their own travel, and pretty oblivious to others, especially when travelling after dark.

She never got lost or stranded. She had to get out of Mesa toot sweet. She had everything planned: what route,gas, etc and any story she told was just a lie to throw off Flores and make confusion.

I too think she had a euphoria after leaving Mesa. Listen to her voice on the message she left for Travis. She was speaking fast, her throat was parched, that message sounded like it was left by a killer. She was jacked up; she also had just checked his voice mails too. Such a liar.