Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #7

[RickshawFan]

That link didn't take me to a discussion about her in the garage. Instead, it provided one page, about her stop at Darryl's and getting the gas cans. The details of that story on that one page are wrong, though. The called Brewer several times beforehand, not just once and not only a few days beforehand, and she had told him on the phone (the second call) that she wanted them for a trip, and that she was going to Mesa.

I read Hogan's book a long time ago on my Kindle (which is now dead, and i can't access her book), and I remember even then (before a lot of our group sleuthing here) finding a great many mistakes in her information.

Who would the have told about what actually happened that day? And, I don't believe the detail about her going through her own boxes in the storage area of the garage (the one car part, presumably). She stored just a few boxes at TA's (known from her related texts), and she removed them with her UHaul before at long last leaving Messages.

FYI you can read your Kindle books on your laptop. This Kindle book is probably just sitting in your very own speck of Kindle cloud.Launch the Kindle app and it should be right there.

 

[geevee]

I don't understand what you're saying about how the timestamps on the shower photos could have been ( accidentally?) altered by her fiddling with the other photos not taken on his camera.

Do you find it impossible to believe, though, that she left after 2, and returned after Zach left?

I guess I'm inclined to believe they did have sex (however grim the occasion, from the looks of it), because I can't imagine otherwise how she would have convinced him to allow her to take photos of him naked in the shower, and I think getting him into the shower was always her plan.

Since there was laptop activity while Zach was in the house, no, I don't think she left.

The shower photo time stamps wouldn't have been altered, they had been deleted but not overwritten like the nudes, all of their EXIF data was recoverable, unlike the nudes. Time stamp data is just another file in a collection of files that make up each digital picture, without that file it seems the only way to know when a pic was taken would be from the memory of the card itself, my wondering is if the card logs picture activity and if that's where the time/date info came from for the nudes (when they were being deleted).

I still wonder how she convinced him to let her take the shower pics too, and fence-sit over the possibility he didn't know she was there until that surprised-turning pic.

 

[geevee]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-General-Discussion-7&p=12759032#post12759032
pocketaccent's experiment just proved that changing the creation date is/was a piece of cake, plus there is also the whole question over the fact that when the memory card was run through Encase, it wasn't even write-protected. Now add to that that it appears from the testimony that only the shower pics had been embedded with the date/time stamp from the camera... the nudes were all done by Encase's software. Sure raises my eyebrows.


Going back to:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-book-February-2016-2&p=12378939#post12378939
https://youtu.be/E9hvA3hQpBk
"Det.M says, starting at about 2:25 in this video, that he couldn't pull anything off the internal memory for TA's camera because he couldn't find anything saved to the internal memory. He also goes on to explain that for the memory stick(he briefly explains the difference between it and a sim card) he was unable to use a write-blocker to pull the info off it. Therefore he plugged them directly into the reader to pull the info using Encase.

At 16:49 he says the date/time info on the unallocated pics was created by the Encase software report. JM has him verify that the date/time info for the shower pics came from the camera having imprinted them directly, but I didn't hear him say that specifically about the nudes, though the way they discussed all the deleted(shower) and unallocated(sexual) pics together they do seem to infer it, in fact he had just said that typically he wouldn't expect it from unallocated files. Now from what I've read on Encase, at least back in 2008, it tells you that it will give the last date accessed on the camera to unallocated files, therefore it would follow that thumbprints in unallocated spaces with no file left at all won't have anything, but those with partial files will be given the last date the camera was accessed."

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-book-February-2016-2&p=12379860#post12379860
"Quote Originally Posted by TexMex View Post
the images (except two which had been overridden) contained the date and time they were created."
<snip>
"the reason two sex pics don't have the red date and time stamp is because he could not recover even the meta data"
<snip>
"Again, if you read the Encase info, or pretty much any of the software available at that time, it appears that it is up to the technician to decide which date applies when all of the metadata is not available, part of that being going by the dates they would deem most condusive to fitting within the timeframe that they were looking for and that the "creation" time could apply."
https://whereismydata.wordpress.com/tag/dates/

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-book-February-2016-2&p=12380269#post12380269
"In response to the jury questions Dworkin had said:
-----------
JURY QUESTIONS

1) are date and time stamps on photos taken by digital cameras, can they be manually manipulated?
Answer: the photo of the file would have to exist first and then go and change the time/date.
It applies to "exif" information as well.

Dworkin did not attempt to turn on the camera as it had been stored for a long time and there was no reason to do it at the time. Dworkin did not see any evidence of time stamp manipulation.

Martinez asks about #413, is it possible that the photo of Jodi and her sister, could it have been taken in 2007 and then uploaded or downloaded in 2008? Witness answer : "anything is possible"."

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4987181?start=15&tstart=0
"Need original photo date vs. import date"
"morganda
Feb 16, 2015 10:04 AM
in response to Terence Devlin

Unfortunately the Mac OS finder does not allow one to view JPEG photos in a folder by file creation date as is possible in Windows because Macs default to the modification date. On a Mac I have used Lemkesoft's GraphicConverter program as a work around. It does a great job in shifting/changing EXIF date/time stamps for batches of JPEG photos so that one can fix camera date/time setting errors and allows you to synchronize photos from different cameras. I have used it to change JPEG modification dates to creation dates for batches of JPEGs created from camera raw files. One simply selects pictures in a folder containing JPEGs within Graphic Converter's Browser, and then chooses the following two actions:

(1) Metadata EXIF, IPTC, ...

(2) Set EXIF Data to File Creation Date

After following this procedure, my photos sort by creation date in the Mac OS finder. This same procedure probably would be applicable to your situation."

BBM

Thanks so much for this Val, it solves a bit of the nude-tame stamp-mystery - I really would like to see Melendez's report, and wonder if BK has tried to attain it. It might answer quite a few questions..why hasn't it been released?

 

[geevee]

Aside from the laptop activity between 3:00 - 4:00, another reason I don't think she left - the license plate - if she removed it after getting to Mesa, she'd have had to replace it to drive anywhere, same if she just turned it upside down. And as I mentioned earlier this year when I had to switch out my plates for the new ones they sent me, I needed three different screw drivers to do that so it wouldn't have been that inconspicuous of an operation for her.

 

[pocketaccent]

No matter how many times or how well the technical stuff about cameras is explained, the details sail right over my head.

As I've said, I've always been willing to believe it was theoretically possible for her to plant the photos on his camera, and I can believe she would take the trouble to do that if it served a twisted purpose for her.

I remain at a loss WHY she would.

If she transferred the nudes into T's camera on June 4th, it would count as one of her bizarre, stupid, childish, freakish, odd, manipulative behavior.
I think it's possible she did it to manipulate Travis into supposing he was winning at whatever game she was playing.

I fully understand about the questions being raised for lack of real motive in switching/transferring those pictures. I just know it is possible to accomplish that without too much effort.

I also question the logic behind her doing it if she did. There are so many things that she habitually does that are just unexplainable to normal people. One of many is sending countless oops emails and texts. She doesn't even get embarrassed when caught, wakes up next day and does it again. Who does that!

 

[pocketaccent]

I can go along with much of this.

Thoughts...

1. I'm more clear in my mind that came and went several times that day. She wasn't hanging out with TA.

2. She could have done a photo swap in TA's car in the garage using her own laptop.

3. If she was done with the murder in the afternoon, she would have left for SLC then. She was running very late.

4. It's not necessary to have a motive for to swap the sex photos. Most of what she does in life has no rationale.

BBM
So true!!

A thought just came to me though.

Her initial plan could have been to take T's camera with her with the sex photos undeleted. By accident of course. Just in case she got caught seen in AZ later on. By roommates, neighbors, passerby. She would be able to say- 'I came to have sex with him as you can see in these photos.'

 

[geevee]

I agree it's difficult to fathom why she would plant pics on his camera, but - if she went there with the expressed purpose of killing him, why ever allow pics to be taken of her there that day? And then throw the camera with the pics in it in the washing machine, after so carefully planning a trip that never had her provably in Arizona? She seemed tech-savvy enough, or at least watched enough CSI-type shows to know the possibility of LE being able to recover deleted photos, washed or not.

The thing that makes the most amount of sense imo is the deleted nude pics were accidentally on that camera card, unknown to JA until Flores showed them to her. Deleting the shower pics and throwing the camera in the wash wouldn't pose much if any danger to her, she didn't think she was in any of those pics (not having been able to tell what was in the accidental pics if she even realized any were taken) and the bleach would destroy her DNA on the camera. So, if recoverable, there were pics of Travis taking a shower, how could that be tied to her?

 

[TexMex]

Mama's cotton field, looking good. Hope these clouds give us some rain




JMO but Jodi got there and didn't leave until Travis was dead.

 

[Hope4More]

I agree it's difficult to fathom why she would plant pics on his camera, but - if she went there with the expressed purpose of killing him, why ever allow pics to be taken of her there that day? And then throw the camera with the pics in it in the washing machine, after so carefully planning a trip that never had her provably in Arizona? She seemed tech-savvy enough, or at least watched enough CSI-type shows to know the possibility of LE being able to recover deleted photos, washed or not.

The thing that makes the most amount of sense imo is the deleted nude pics were accidentally on that camera card, unknown to JA until Flores showed them to her. Deleting the shower pics and throwing the camera in the wash wouldn't pose much if any danger to her, she didn't think she was in any of those pics (not having been able to tell what was in the accidental pics if she even realized any were taken) and the bleach would destroy her DNA on the camera. So, if recoverable, there were pics of Travis taking a shower, how could that be tied to her?

"The deleted nude photos were accidentally on that card" -- this I don't understand either, but I really can be thick when it comes to this stuff.


Question. If the 's goal (for whatever reason) was to put sex photos from another time onto TA's camera, wouldn't the easiest way to do that be simply transferring them onto a Sony memory stick before she arrived, and inserting that stick into his camera?

We know she didn't do that because of the other photos on the stick taken of Travis in and about his house on other days.

-----
IMO there are several glaring problems with the transfer of photos idea, the ability to do such a thing not one of them.

1. Right up there-- the idea assumes the already had those incriminating photos to transfer, which means she had them before she left Mesa, and given her hair color, they would have had to have been taken post OKC convention, which was within weeks of her leaving.

Bottom line- I don't believe she had those photos to transfer, for the reasons I posted yesterday.

2. As a theoretical, even if she had the photos beforehand. I hear all the responses that transferring them could have simply been irrational, inexplicable, can't be known but doesn't matter. Respectfully, my sisters in sleuthing, I don't agree.

All the known evidence, as presented in court ( and later discussed by JM), indicates the photos were taken that day. There is a very logical reason why she would try to engage TA in sex that day (including having him lower his guard in general, and specifically, about her subsequent suggestion to taking nude photos of him in the shower).

Evidence plus readily understandable narrative.

(ETA-- leaving the camera behind at all, which we know for a fact she did...THAT is thinking that can't be understood. Even JM sounded bemused and baffled in book interviews about why she might have left it, or if she left it accidentally (he suggested she might have scooped it up with a bundle of wash and tossed it in the washer, forgetting it was there in her haste.

 

[RickshawFan]

I think she did her absolute best to deny the sex photos were taken on June 4 (paraphrased):

"That looks like me, but I was NOT there!"

"Are you sure they weren't taken another time? Because dates and times on photos can be (manipulated)."

"I know it's far-fetched, but maybe Travis used one of my memory cards I left there?"

She did NOT want to admit the photos were taken that day, for obvious reasons. Only after she realized she couldn't lie her way out of denying she was there on the 4th did she admit she was, and that the photos were about them having sex that day.

One other point: I don't believe she had sex or nude photos from another time to do that switching around on the 4th, much less photos that would have had to be taken after the OKC convention, when she first dyed her hair away from all blonde.

Travis didn't trust her enough by then, IMO, to allow her to take that kind of photo on her camera. They fought -bitterly--for most of March on through the day she left, and she was pulling major crap on him nonstop, including stealing his diamond ring, blowing up his BMW, and trying to prevent him from meeting his PPL quota.

And... remember that she had to manufacture "evidence" of their sexual activity, including the May 2 tree fantasy email, and recording phone sex, whenever that was. She wouldn't have felt the need to work that hard at it, IMO, if she already had photo evidence of the sexual activity she wanted to hold over his head, or to use against him via sending the photos to GF's or whatever.

Great points, especially the last!

 

[geevee]

"The deleted nude photos were accidentally on that card" -- this I don't understand either, but I really can be thick when it comes to this stuff.


Question. If the 's goal (for whatever reason) was to put sex photos from another time onto TA's camera, wouldn't the easiest way to do that be simply transferring them onto a Sony memory stick before she arrived, and inserting that stick into his camera?

We know she didn't do that because of the other photos on the stick taken of Travis in and about his house on other days.

-----
IMO there are several glaring problems with the transfer of photos idea, the ability to do such a thing not one of them.

1. Right up there-- the idea assumes the already had those incriminating photos to transfer, which means she had them before she left Mesa, and given her hair color, they would have had to have been taken post OKC convention, which was within weeks of her leaving.

Bottom line- I don't believe she had those photos to transfer, for the reasons I posted yesterday.

2. As a theoretical, even if she had the photos beforehand. I hear all the responses that transferring them could have simply been irrational, inexplicable, can't be known but doesn't matter. Respectfully, my sisters in sleuthing, I don't agree.

All the known evidence, as presented in court ( and later discussed by JM), indicates the photos were taken that day. There is a very logical reason why she would try to engage TA in sex that day (including having him lower his guard in general, and specifically, about her subsequent suggestion to taking nude photos of him in the shower).

Evidence plus readily understandable narrative.

(ETA-- leaving the camera behind at all, which we know for a fact she did...THAT is thinking that can't be understood. Even JM sounded bemused and baffled in book interviews about why she might have left it, or if she left it accidentally (he suggested she might have scooped it up with a bundle of wash and tossed it in the washer, forgetting it was there in her haste.

Getting his guard down is one thing, but if she went there with the sole purpose of killing him, on a very skulky trip, why would she let him take pics of her, at his house, on the day of his death?

Washing the camera in bleach destroys her DNA but if she took the camera, how could she destroy his DNA on it? That may have been her quick reasoning to dump it in the washer. Granted she took the weapons that likely had his DNA on them (at least the knife) but she liked those things, they were her trophy from the killing.

I have a question about the 90+ other photos on that stick - how did they all fit on there? My present camera will only take about 35 without it being full so I have the uploader set to delete once uploaded - do we know the size of that card? Back in '08 they were much smaller than today's sticks, 4 MB? Even if 8 it wouldn't hold scads of pics even if the camera were set to have them saved at the smallest pixel size.

 

[RickshawFan]

Almost every sentence of that excerpt is demonstrably wrong. Neither roommate saw Travis that morning; Zach had the day off; Enrique left for work first; Zach came back at 3, not Enrique, and he didn't hear or see Travis or the ; there is no way to know when Travis woke up; the item Chris mentioned wasn't something he bought or found in Cancun but a PPL-related CD or whatever by PPL'er Mark Smith, etc. etc. etc.

Not even close.


As for hiding out in the garage (the one car storage part), that I can readily believe she did for some portion of the day, and about a box of hers being there- I doubt it, but who knows, but I think it's very unlikely she didn't arrive with everything she needed to kill him with, including at least one favorite knife.

Didn't she leave some kind of picture there? TA was really annoyed about it?

 

[RickshawFan]

Aside from the laptop activity between 3:00 - 4:00, another reason I don't think she left - the license plate - if she removed it after getting to Mesa, she'd have had to replace it to drive anywhere, same if she just turned it upside down. And as I mentioned earlier this year when I had to switch out my plates for the new ones they sent me, I needed three different screw drivers to do that so it wouldn't have been that inconspicuous of an operation for her.

I don't understand why that laptop activity had to be her. Also, if she had to deal with the license plates, I don't see why they had to be dealt with right then.

I also don't understand why, black or white, she was there or not there. IMO she was doing a lot of coming and going, and "going" may have just been as far as the yard.

 

[Hope4More]

It could be that the genius intended beforehand to steal the camera, and to stage the scene as another half arsed robbery (take cash from wallet, open drawers and strew things around, etc, a replay of her half arsed staged robbery of granny and grandpa's house), but was foiled because she ran out of time (delayed by having to exit because of Zach), and knew just taking the camera (and cash) wouldn't make for a convincing robbery, even a half-arsed one.

I have no doubt she coveted his camera, and was likely resentful TA owned a better camera than she, the professional artistic photographer. It should have been hers, so she was going to have it be hers. Added bonus: trophy photos of the day she won.

 

[Hope4More]

Didn't she leave some kind of picture there? TA was really annoyed about it?

She did, on the day she left Mesa. It was never clear just what the thing was exactly, but she signed it or some such so he couldn't give it to anyone else, but didn't take it either, a thing she had requested from him as a gift, iirc. Something like that. She left it deliberately, of course, to mess with him.

 

[nwmouse]

Hey Sleuthers - I posted last week about JA's appellate fund being suspended. Well it still looks suspended, does anyone know if the person who started it has absconded with the funds? I really hope so because
a) my week and the next week have been /will be incredibly cr@ppy and I I could do with a sh0t of schadenfreude and
b) It makes me happy to think JA will be throwing fuming temper tantrums in her roach motel cell knowing she's been scammed and her delusions of release are sleeping with the fishes.

 

[Hope4More]

Aside from the laptop activity between 3:00 - 4:00, another reason I don't think she left - the license plate - if she removed it after getting to Mesa, she'd have had to replace it to drive anywhere, same if she just turned it upside down. And as I mentioned earlier this year when I had to switch out my plates for the new ones they sent me, I needed three different screw drivers to do that so it wouldn't have been that inconspicuous of an operation for her.

IMO the lap-top activity times fit perfectly with the scenario of the leaving and returning because of Zach.

How the times fit, speculating: she brought her laptop with her, and sent an email to Travis while she was in his study in the wee hours, after she backspaced to see what he'd been doing before he went to bed.

She sent the email to TA in order to plant a virus on his laptop, a virus that she hoped would effectively prevent Travis from using his laptop that day, including for emailing. She sent it, then opened his Gmail account and her own email to him, then deleted it.

TA's laptop doesn't seem to have been accessed again until 3 whatever PM. The timing of that is just right. Sex until 2 or 2:15ish, breakfast/lunch for him of oatmeal, he tells her to needs to get to cleaning and pulls out the tile cleaner, mentions Zach returning, she leaves.

Travis pulled out the cleaner only because he wanted her out of the house, so he leaves it in the living room and goes to his study to get on his laptop. He tries (the 3PM ish activity), but he has a virus and can't get on, tries to figure out what to do, starts to prepare for his conference call, now only a few hours away.

Zach leaves, the returns, saying oops, ditzy her was all the way out of Mesa before she realized she'd forgotten one of the reasons she stopped by- to show him the CD's. Travis tries to bring up the photos (the 4:15 ish activity) but can't, again because of the virus.

I actually believe her that TA got pissed at that point, and accused her of putting the virus on his computer. She wanted him off balance, and it was working. Failed attempt, a mini-spat, sweet talk by her, he tries one more time, at 4:45, and gives up shortly afterwards.

Then upstairs to the shower, I'm thinking he had to believe she was gone this time, and was seriously apprehensive when she returned one more time, this time to his bathroom when he was naked in the shower.

 

[geevee]

She did, on the day she left Mesa. It was never clear just what the thing was exactly, but she signed it or some such so he couldn't give it to anyone else, but didn't take it either, a thing she had requested from him as a gift, iirc. Something like that. She left it deliberately, of course, to mess with him.

I think it was a painting (or drawing) of Napoleon that she was doing for him.

 

[geevee]

IMO the lap-top activity times fit perfectly with the scenario of the leaving and returning because of Zach.

How the times fit, speculating: she brought her laptop with her, and sent an email to Travis while she was in his study in the wee hours, after she backspaced to see what he'd been doing before he went to bed.

She sent the email to TA in order to plant a virus on his laptop, a virus that she hoped would effectively prevent Travis from using his laptop that day, including for emailing. She sent it, then opened his Gmail account and her own email to him, then deleted it.

TA's laptop doesn't seem to have been accessed again until 3 whatever PM. The timing of that is just right. Sex until 2 or 2:15ish, breakfast/lunch for him of oatmeal, he tells her to needs to get to cleaning and pulls out the tile cleaner, mentions Zach returning, she leaves.

Travis pulled out the cleaner only because he wanted her out of the house, so he leaves it in the living room and goes to his study to get on his laptop. He tries (the 3PM ish activity), but he has a virus and can't get on, tries to figure out what to do, starts to prepare for his conference call, now only a few hours away.

Zach leaves, the returns, saying oops, ditzy her was all the way out of Mesa before she realized she'd forgotten one of the reasons she stopped by- to show him the CD's. Travis tries to bring up the photos (the 4:15 ish activity) but can't, again because of the virus.

I actually believe her that TA got pissed at that point, and accused her of putting the virus on his computer. She wanted him off balance, and it was working. Failed attempt, a mini-spat, sweet talk by her, he tries one more time, at 4:45, and gives up shortly afterwards.

Then upstairs to the shower, I'm thinking he had to believe she was gone this time, and was seriously apprehensive when she returned one more time, this time to his bathroom when he was naked in the shower.

Playing devil's advocate here: He knew he had viruses at least around the beginning of June, he had Taylor Searle (?) clean it and Spybot was reinstalled. He (or she) was able to access e-mail at the last usage of the laptop, so it couldn't have been too disabled.

Her leaving at mid-point in the day isn't the only way for Zach not to have seen her, she had gotten very good at hiding in T's place - heck, Zach didn't even see Travis between 3 and 4.

I simply don't think Travis would have any kind of a day with her after the 26th, at least not willingly. I think it's quite likely the only time he did see her that day was when he was naked in the shower, turned and saw she had been taking pics of him.

 

[TexMex]

I cannot imagine any scenario that a girl so determined to kill a man that she drove 1,000 miles with weapons, gas, cell phone off in a non descript rental car....arrives then leaves once or twice....then returns to kill him. Makes no sense IMO. If he were mad or scared he could have: fled, called/texted someone, called the cops or even locked all the doors. Then what would she do? All the planning and expense for nothing?

JMO but Travis fell into the familiar pattern one last time. She shows up, sex happens. He eats, cleans floors, washes sheets, while she showers and maybe does her hair and makeup routine. They look at the vacation pictures etc. He wants her to go but doesn't push it because he knows she's leaving for Utah at some point. He's just being polite, doesn't want a fight. She lingers until he finally says he has to shower before his conference call. She suggests some tasteful shower pics to show off his weight loss then she simply must leave, she just can't believe how late it is! He sees the light at the end of the tunnel (she's leaving!) and agrees. She takes 9 minutes of pics then strikes.