Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #8

[RickshawFan]

Thanks Val1 there are other reportes out there too that show the two are still in contact....I appreciate you finding this.

I'm almost positive this isn't allowed according to MDLR's contract.

 

[Steve44]

I'm almost positive this isn't allowed according to MDLR's contract.

https://www.maricopa.gov/OPDS/Asset...tracts/Service_Provider_Contracts/11075-c.pdf

While contact between the defendant and the mitigation specialist is a contractual obligation, and the contract expires upon sentencing, I don't see anything that forbids post-sentencing contact, and I don't see how it could, since including it would mean the expired contract remains in effect, which is contradictory. It also seems to me to be infringing on free choice and would be legally baseless.

 

[RickshawFan]

https://www.maricopa.gov/OPDS/Asset...tracts/Service_Provider_Contracts/11075-c.pdf

While contact between the defendant and the mitigation specialist is a contractual obligation, and the contract expires upon sentencing, I don't see anything that forbids post-sentencing contact, and I don't see how it could, since including it would mean the expired contract remains in effect, which is contradictory. It also seems to me to be infringing on free choice and would be legally baseless.

There are many professions where contact is not permitted for a certain length of time after the contract has ended.

 

[MsJosie]

I'm almost positive this isn't allowed according to MDLR's contract.

You probably are 100% right, but thata did nit stop MDLR drom helping the felon during trial, even if the felons lawyers told her to do it. MDLR still crossed the line then, why not now? The felon never went by rules and she is known to go to any media (tabloid are probably only ones left that would talk to her) that might 'bite' (reminds me of felon casey anthony and her pictures and stories she releases to the media). The only way to find out about this drawing, how it got out, if through MDLR, is for this picture issue to be reported to the Warden and an investigation.

 

[RickshawFan]

You probably are 100% right, but thata did nit stop MDLR drom helping the felon during trial, even if the felons lawyers told her to do it. MDLR still crossed the line then, why not now? The felon never went by rules and she is known to go to any media (tabloid are probably only ones left that would talk to her) that might 'bite' (reminds me of felon casey anthony and her pictures and stories she releases to the media). The only way to find out about this drawing, how it got out, if through MDLR, is for this picture issue to be reported to the Warden and an investigation.

Have you figured out how to report it to the warden?

 

[Steve44]

There are many professions where contact is not permitted for a certain length of time after the contract has ended.

I'm aware of such restrictions that are litigated on a case by case basis, in other words as the result of a specific court action, but not in a standard professional/client contract. Can you give an example?

 

[Hope4More]

The role and job description of 'mitigation specialist' arose gradually as a result of the Supreme Courts 1976 decision ruling capitol punishment once again constitutional for States (initially Florida, Georgia and Texas) implementing, among other things, sentencing guidelines for capitol cases which take into account aggravating and mitigating factors.

The comprehensive investigation and subsequent report on all possible mitigating factors was eventually found to be a time-consuming, difficult, but necessary task if reversal was to be avoided, and requiring skills in social sciences such as therapeutic communication not typically characteristic of defense attorneys, thus arose the necessity of the mitigation specialist on the defense team, an individual typically with professional qualifications in social work or counseling, able to both define and ferret out all possible mitigating factors of a defendant. As an idea of how comprehensive this research could get, the investigation sometimes looks at the prenatal environment of the defendant, determining if the mother used drugs or alcohol during pregnancy thus compromising the mental development of the defendant.

It's interesting that for all of that, had so few mitigating factors to present. She did mention, and emphasized in her final statement, the token, 'wooden spoon' abuse she suffered as a child, but nothing substantive and nothing truly 'mitigating' at all.

Add to the summation about mitigation that the necessity of doing thorough mitigation has substantially lengthened the pretrial process of DP cases, a fact duly noted in the AZ Supreme Court's report on the DP backlog court crisis.

About 's lack of mitigation. Nurmi wrote that he brought in mitigation all through out the guilt phase precisely because there was so little standard issue mitigation he could argue during sentencing, given the 's refusal to acknowledge her mental illness.

Had the allowed Nurmi to try her case his way, what a different story he could have woven. Rather than sex and sex and more sex, the lies of abuse, and the unbelievable depiction of as meek victim, Nurmi could have portrayed her as someone who was self- destructive, unable to hold onto a job, unstable in every relationship she had, detached from reality & a magical thinker, and someone with full-blown BPD, a disorder which caused her an enormous amount of psychological pain, and which made her vulnerable to misinterpreting even otherwise innocuous mixed signals from anyone she was involved with.

That presentation of (and the foregoing of all attacks on Travis) would IMO have been mitigating enough to make her far more sympathetic to jurors; perhaps enough, even, for at least some to believe a defense of sudden passion.

(An aside....imagine being the 's first set of attorneys, sending out mitigation investigators to speak to family and friends and work colleagues, then reading through over 400 pages of their summaries containing, per JM, nothing positive or redeeming said by anyone interviewed. What to do.......

 

[Steve44]

Add to the summation about mitigation that the necessity of doing thorough mitigation has substantially lengthened the pretrial process of DP cases, a fact duly noted in the AZ Supreme Court's report on the backlog court crisis.

About 's lack of mitigation. Nurmi wrote that he brought in mitigation all through out the guilt phase precisely because there was so little standard issue mitigation he could argue during sentencing, given the 's refusal to acknowledge her mental illness.

Had the allowed Nurmi to try her case his way, what a different story he could have woven. He could have portrayed her as someone who was self- destructive, unable to hold onto a job, unstable in every relationship she had, detached from reality & a magical thinker, and someone with full-blown BPD, a disorder which caused her an enormous amount of psychological pain, and which made her vulnerable to misinterpreting even otherwise innocuous mixed signals from anyone she was involved with.

That presentation of (and the foregoing of all attacks on Travis) would IMO have been mitigating enough to make her far more sympathetic to jurors; perhaps enough, even, for at least some to believe a defense of sudden passion.

I agree, but is too smart by half. Poor thing.

 

[Steve44]

Add to the summation about mitigation that the necessity of doing thorough mitigation has substantially lengthened the pretrial process of DP cases, a fact duly noted in the AZ Supreme Court's report on the DP backlog court crisis.

About 's lack of mitigation. Nurmi wrote that he brought in mitigation all through out the guilt phase precisely because there was so little standard issue mitigation he could argue during sentencing, given the 's refusal to acknowledge her mental illness.

Had the allowed Nurmi to try her case his way, what a different story he could have woven. He could have portrayed her as someone who was self- destructive, unable to hold onto a job, unstable in every relationship she had, detached from reality & a magical thinker, and someone with full-blown BPD, a disorder which caused her an enormous amount of psychological pain, and which made her vulnerable to misinterpreting even otherwise innocuous mixed signals from anyone she was involved with.

That presentation of (and the foregoing of all attacks on Travis) would IMO have been mitigating enough to make her far more sympathetic to jurors; perhaps enough, even, for at least some to believe a defense of sudden passion.

(An aside....imagine being the 's first set of attorneys, sending out mitigation investigators to speak to family and friends and work colleagues, then reading through over 400 pages of their summaries containing, per JM, nothing positive or redeeming said by anyone interviewed. What to do.......

rue the day?

 

[Hope4More]

I agree, but is too smart by half. Poor thing.

rue the day?

Lol. Yes, poor thing, hoisted by her own petard, repeatedly, and still too arrogant and deluded to recognize that truth.

 

[FinallyRegistered]

[Harris jury selection begins (again) tomorrow.]


I hear you. There is precious little sleuthing to be done on the Harris case, and precious little that is intriguing about the defendant, innocent or guilty. He seems to be a plain vanilla not very likable fellow, as opposed to the wildly psychopathic and borderline , just for example.

Not everyone's cup of tea, or flavor of case and trial, but for me, quite intellectually compelling--perhaps because I'm a nerdy wonk fascinated by the intersection of law and politics, and the real world implementation of law that sounds good on paper but maybe not so much when it comes to individual defendants and cases.

I'm also looking forward to watching the courtroom dynamics of a trial presided over by an unapologetically pro- prosecution hanging judge, and conducted by extremely well qualified attorneys for both defense and State.

Here's hoping a trial comes along at some point that draws in the whole "family."

Tricia is allowing us to re-sleuth the JonBenet killing for the 20th anniversary. Feel free to come over and run down all the rabbit holes with us.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?23-JonBenet-Ramsey
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?23-JonBenet-Ramsey

 

[Hope4More]

Tricia is allowing us to re-sleuth the JonBenet killing for the 20th anniversary. Feel free to come over and run down all the rabbit holes with us.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?23-JonBenet-Ramsey
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?23-JonBenet-Ramsey

Oy. That's a mother of all rabbit holes. I may never see daylight again if I hop down that one. So....maybe?

 

[RickshawFan]

I'm aware of such restrictions that are litigated on a case by case basis, in other words as the result of a specific court action, but not in a standard professional/client contract. Can you give an example?

I had one in financial services. I can think of lobbyists.... I actually don't think it's at all unlikely MDLR was prohibited from maintaining contact event if it's in the contract with her company, because typically it would be unethical for social service folks to continue contact with a former client. I can see this actually being written in to a mitigation specialist's contract with her company just to make things crystal clear. But I also thought there was some rule at Perryville.

 

[RickshawFan]

Oy. That's a mother of all rabbit holes. I may never see daylight again if I hop down that one. So....maybe?

The Sister Rabbits may have to scamper in.

 

[geevee]

Oy. That's a mother of all rabbit holes. I may never see daylight again if I hop down that one. So....maybe?

I watched A&E's program on it last night, and kept shuddering thinking of trying to sleuth this one.

I was just so stunned that LE kept saying the (matching) DNA in panties and outside of her leggings was "irrelevant'...ohh gawd, please don't make me traverse this warren.

Topically for this thread though, I agree Hope, what a whole different trial it would have been had Nurm been able to try the case the way he wanted, heck, she may have gotten the 2nd degree she believed she so richly deserved.

 

[Hope4More]

I watched A&E's program on it last night, and kept shuddering thinking of trying to sleuth this one.

I was just so stunned that LE kept saying the (matching) DNA in panties and outside of her leggings was "irrelevant'...ohh gawd, please don't make me traverse this warren.

Topically for this thread though, I agree Hope, what a whole different trial it would have been had Nurm been able to try the case the way he wanted, heck, she may have gotten the 2nd degree she believed she so richly deserved.

Do I hear the rumblings of a bunny stampede in the making?

 

[MsJosie]

Have you figured out how to report it to the warden?

No, but I remember someone on WS did report the felon to the Warden...heck if I remember why....and it had been shortly after she 'moved to her new digs'. I was surprised to read it.

 

[FinallyRegistered]

Well, all you cute bunnies should also hop over to 'otg''s calendar of all the JBR shows coming up in the next few weeks ... https://teamup.com/ksebb2935e68ee3a5f ... set your dvrs, if ya' got 'em. FYI, 'otg', is the poster over there at JBR that educates us on everything. She's my Hope4More over there.

And if you need a refresher, The Bontia Papers will bring you up to speed: http://www.re-newsit.com/p/the-bonita-papers-are-unedited-notes-of.html

 

[RickshawFan]

No, but I remember someone on WS did report the felon to the Warden...heck if I remember why....and it had been shortly after she 'moved to her new digs'. I was surprised to read it.

It was probably after she got her ventmate to vent publicly on her behalf. Then there was the incident with the rap singer. The warden doesn't like publicity of any kind.

 

[RickshawFan]

Well, all you cute bunnies should also hop over to 'otg''s calendar of all the JBR shows coming up in the next few weeks ... https://teamup.com/ksebb2935e68ee3a5f ... set your dvrs, if ya' got 'em. FYI, 'otg', is the poster over there at JBR that educates us on everything. She's my Hope4More over there.

And if you need a refresher, The Bontia Papers will bring you up to speed: http://www.re-newsit.com/p/the-bonita-papers-are-unedited-notes-of.html

Could you translate that plz? You lost me there.