Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #8

[Hope4More]

When the went back to jail after interrogation with Flores, she knew ninja lies alone wouldn't work. Flores didn't apologize and send her home. From then on, she started selling the abuse lies in addition to the ninja lies by giving interviews to 48 hours (she does claim physical abuse in one), Mark Stanoch(speculating), writing a letter to T's family and a manifesto. I think she wanted to use a combination of both lies.

I wouldn't be surprised if she was going for -ninjas killed a pedophile and no jury will convict me.

IMO, the was absolutely sure she could sell the ninjas lie to a jury, and remained sure she could until Nurmi's efforts to convince her otherwise (summer 2009-early 2010) caused her to reconsider.

Why did she, so soon after her arrest, invent the lie about TA being physically abusive to her?

I don't believe she was thinking about a plan B self defense lie at that point. Until she spoke with Karp in February 2010, her lie of physical abuse was that he had hurt her exactly twice, and the context she gave was the same for both: Travis became physically violent out of jealousy, after she had brought up the name of another man.

The violent because jealous lie was entirely consistent with the efforts she made after the Flores phone interviews to manufacture evidence countering the suspicion of her by so many that Flores had relayed to her in those calls.

(She had also heard about those suspicions from Ryan, and had no doubt experienced significant hostility from many of TA's friends while she was in Mesa for TA's memorial service on June 16, iirc).

Her anger at what she was told was being said about her by TA's family & friends was evident in her letter to TA's family.

Her anger about what was being said of her grew, quickly and obviously. She wrote her assinine "manifesto" a month later, specifically in response to what "ignorant" folks were saying about her online & elsewhere.

Her portrayal of TA was already becoming sharper-edged and less flattering, but again, literally every lie she told about him in the manifesto was oriented towards describing Travis as the one who was obsessed enough with her that he invaded her privacy and couldn't let go.

So, physical abuse yes, but until February 2010 (at least), an accusation that IMO was still about supporting her lie she had nothing to do with his death because she had no reason to kill him.

Think about what changed after Samuels didn't deliver a trial-ready reason for her fog. To claim fog, she had to gin up another lie, or double down on an existing one.

She first doubled down on the existing lie about physical violence. That won her the fog, but created another, obvious problem. If Travis physically abused her dozens and dozens and dozens of times, didn't that give her a motive to kill him?

Now consider the position the was in about the lack of any evidence of ANY physical abuse, and the fact that even as late as the time of her interviews with DeMarte- many months after she claimed self-defense -she STILL had not linked the pedo lie to her lie about DV.

I think it's important to remember what a transparent, stupid liar the always has been. Remember the email Sky describes that she sent to Travis to convince him to ask her to move to Mesa? Yah. A stalker sent her an email telling her she was beautiful and talented and Travis didn't deserve her, but also that Travis couldn't protect her from being stalked or harmed because he lived so far away, in Mesa.

Stupid. And so obvious that Sky said she burst into laughter when Travis told her about the email.

Same thing can be said about boxing herself in with lies manufactured to prove she wasn't there and anyway, had no reason to kill him. Ditto the ninjas. Ditto her lies to Karp about DV.

Think about the absurdity of her pedo lie in general, and not just of the pedo lie so recklessly attached to January 21.

Her pre-pedo lies and manufacturing of evidence were all about TA being promiscuous, a serial cheater & flirt, sex-crazed, obsessed with her goddess body and self, and half-crazed with jealousy at the very mention or thought of her with another man.

How, exactly, was her accusation about pedo consistent with her first pack of lies about TA? It wasn't, and couldn't be made to be- as Nurmi, defender of pedophiles and sexual deviants has to have known.

She couldn't jettison her first pack of lies about Travis, and didn't want to, because she would never (and never has) admitted that Travis rejected her. Repeatedly, for that matter.

So, in her pedo lie, TA repeatedly seeks out sex with her because having "normal" sex helps squelch his deviant pedo desires.

In her pedo lie, she consents to have sex, repeatedly, with a man she knows is a pedophile, because she the spiritually superior goddess is benevolent ("I know you won't judge me, you never have." In forged 1/21 letter), and because she is willing to sacrifice her own spiritual well being in order to save little boys from TA.

That tied to a tree fantasy and her own "dirty little school girl" role and her post-murder journal lies about other fantasies past and future she had so carefully manufactured to make Travis appear the sex-crazed pursuer?

Right. To square those lies with the pedo lie, she repackages the original "fantasies"
as "fantasy reenactments" she engaged in with Travis to help him contain his pedo urges.

The pedo lie was way more evil than her ninjas lie, but it was also far more stupid and unbelievable.

I keep circling back to forgeries post-arrest because bottom-line, I see that timing as most consistent with the overall timeline, and as significant, with her long-term pattern of lying and MO of creating half-arsed lies to cover her lies, all the while being convinced she would be believed.

 

[Hope4More]

Last thought for the meanwhile, about the timing of the forgeries.

Every scenario proposed so far assumes that all the letters were forged at the same time. What if they were not?

If I'm right that she initially thought lying about TA physically abusing her would prove he was the jealous one, not her, then perhaps she forged the letters about physical abuse before her arrest? As well as the letters in which he (according to JM's book) writes about the (non-pedo) sexual encounters they've had or he wants to have?

We know that he referred to pedo in only 2 of the 10 letters. Perhaps additional letters mentioned pedo as well, but JM describes the January 21 letter as being the most explicit and potentially damaging.

Something else JM says about the letters may be relevant. He mentions TA's signatures as one of the things he and his handwriting expert thought might indicate forgery.

When he and Kreitl compared the forgeries to the letters Travis had written Deanna, JM said they noticed that TA's signatures on the forgeries were much larger than on the letters he wrote to Deanna.

I really, really wish we had all the letters to examine, but on the only whole letter available, that dated January 21, 2007, there is no signature as such, just TA's initials.

Travis signed off in his journal with initials. He signed his note to the with "Travis," and I'm willing to bet, based on what JM wrote, that he signed his letters to Deanna likewise.

The January 21 "most incriminating" letter at least, seems to be an outlier. Could that be because it (and any others alluding to pedo) were cut and pasted at a different time, in early 2010?

 

[pocketaccent]

Last thought for the meanwhile, about the timing of the forgeries.

Every scenario proposed so far assumes that all the letters were forged at the same time. What if they were not?

If I'm right that she initially thought lying about TA physically abusing her would prove he was the jealous one, not her, then perhaps she forged the letters about physical abuse before her arrest? As well as the letters in which he (according to JM's book) writes about the (non-pedo) sexual encounters they've had or he wants to have?

We know that he referred to pedo in only 2 of the 10 letters. Perhaps additional letters mentioned pedo as well, but JM describes the January 21 letter as being the most explicit and potentially damaging.

Something else JM says about the letters may be relevant. He mentions TA's signatures as one of the things he and his handwriting expert thought might indicate forgery.

When he and Kreitl compared the forgeries to the letters Travis had written Deanna, JM said they noticed that TA's signatures on the forgeries were much larger than on the letters he wrote to Deanna.

I really, really wish we had all the letters to examine, but on the only whole letter available, that dated January 21, 2007, there is no signature as such, just TA's initials.

Travis signed off in his journal with initials. He signed his note to the with "Travis," and I'm willing to bet, based on what JM wrote, that he signed his letters to Deanna likewise.

The January 21 "most incriminating" letter at least, seems to be an outlier. Could that be because it (and any others alluding to pedo) were cut and pasted at a different time, in early 2010?

The January '07 letter absolutely is not from a cut and paste job. It was handwritten on a pristine, unwrinkled, white, evenly textured, unlined sheet of paper.

T's journal was lined, pages were not perfectly clean, had smudges and smears, and seem to have grainy texture. All of those imperfections would show up in different colors when scanned into computer. If you cut and paste from that scan to make a letter, you will have something that really looks like a cut and pasted forged job, not the one Nurmi received.

You can see what I'm talking about on Debbie Maran's analysis where she cut and pasted the 's writing to make her point. You can clearly can see the grey cut and pasted words on white background.
Jodi Arias Trial Truth: Arias and Her Minion

(Not undervaluing Debbie Maran's works at all, I think all her analyses are super great, just not on this one)

 

[pocketaccent]

IMO, the was absolutely sure she could sell the ninjas lie to a jury, and remained sure she could until Nurmi's efforts to convince her otherwise (summer 2009-early 2010) caused her to reconsider.

Why did she, so soon after her arrest, invent the lie about TA being physically abusive to her?

I don't believe she was thinking about a plan B self defense lie at that point. Until she spoke with Karp in February 2010, her lie of physical abuse was that he had hurt her exactly twice, and the context she gave was the same for both: Travis became physically violent out of jealousy, after she had brought up the name of another man.

The violent because jealous lie was entirely consistent with the efforts she made after the Flores phone interviews to manufacture evidence countering the suspicion of her by so many that Flores had relayed to her in those calls.

(She had also heard about those suspicions from Ryan, and had no doubt experienced significant hostility from many of TA's friends while she was in Mesa for TA's memorial service on June 16, iirc).

Her anger at what she was told was being said about her by TA's family & friends was evident in her letter to TA's family.

Her anger about what was being said of her grew, quickly and obviously. She wrote her assinine "manifesto" a month later, specifically in response to what "ignorant" folks were saying about her online & elsewhere.

Her portrayal of TA was already becoming sharper-edged and less flattering, but again, literally every lie she told about him in the manifesto was oriented towards describing Travis as the one who was obsessed enough with her that he invaded her privacy and couldn't let go.

So, physical abuse yes, but until February 2010 (at least), an accusation that IMO was still about supporting her lie she had nothing to do with his death because she had no reason to kill him.

Think about what changed after Samuels didn't deliver a trial-ready reason for her fog. To claim fog, she had to gin up another lie, or double down on an existing one.

She first doubled down on the existing lie about physical violence. That won her the fog, but created another, obvious problem. If Travis physically abused her dozens and dozens and dozens of times, didn't that give her a motive to kill him?

Now consider the position the was in about the lack of any evidence of ANY physical abuse, and the fact that even as late as the time of her interviews with DeMarte- many months after she claimed self-defense -she STILL had not linked the pedo lie to her lie about DV.

I think it's important to remember what a transparent, stupid liar the always has been. Remember the email Sky describes that she sent to Travis to convince him to ask her to move to Mesa? Yah. A stalker sent her an email telling her she was beautiful and talented and Travis didn't deserve her, but also that Travis couldn't protect her from being stalked or harmed because he lived so far away, in Mesa.

Stupid. And so obvious that Sky said she burst into laughter when Travis told her about the email.

Same thing can be said about boxing herself in with lies manufactured to prove she wasn't there and anyway, had no reason to kill him. Ditto the ninjas. Ditto her lies to Karp about DV.

Think about the absurdity of her pedo lie in general, and not just of the pedo lie so recklessly attached to January 21.

Her pre-pedo lies and manufacturing of evidence were all about TA being promiscuous, a serial cheater & flirt, sex-crazed, obsessed with her goddess body and self, and half-crazed with jealousy at the very mention or thought of her with another man.

How, exactly, was her accusation about pedo consistent with her first pack of lies about TA? It wasn't, and couldn't be made to be- as Nurmi, defender of pedophiles and sexual deviants has to have known.

She couldn't jettison her first pack of lies about Travis, and didn't want to, because she would never (and never has) admitted that Travis rejected her. Repeatedly, for that matter.

So, in her pedo lie, TA repeatedly seeks out sex with her because having "normal" sex helps squelch his deviant pedo desires.

In her pedo lie, she consents to have sex, repeatedly, with a man she knows is a pedophile, because she the spiritually superior goddess is benevolent ("I know you won't judge me, you never have." In forged 1/21 letter), and because she is willing to sacrifice her own spiritual well being in order to save little boys from TA.

That tied to a tree fantasy and her own "dirty little school girl" role and her post-murder journal lies about other fantasies past and future she had so carefully manufactured to make Travis appear the sex-crazed pursuer?

Right. To square those lies with the pedo lie, she repackages the original "fantasies"
as "fantasy reenactments" she engaged in with Travis to help him contain his pedo urges.

The pedo lie was way more evil than her ninjas lie, but it was also far more stupid and unbelievable.

I keep circling back to forgeries post-arrest because bottom-line, I see that timing as most consistent with the overall timeline, and as significant, with her long-term pattern of lying and MO of creating half-arsed lies to cover her lies, all the while being convinced she would be believed.

IMO, the was absolutely sure she could sell the ninjas lie to a jury, and remained sure she could until Nurmi's efforts to convince her otherwise (summer 2009-early 2010) caused her to reconsider.

Why did she, so soon after her arrest, invent the lie about TA being physically abusive to her?

I don't believe she was thinking about a plan B self defense lie at that point. Until she spoke with Karp in February 2010, her lie of physical abuse was that he had hurt her exactly twice, and the context she gave was the same for both: Travis became physically violent out of jealousy, after she had brought up the name of another man.

The violent because jealous lie was entirely consistent with the efforts she made after the Flores phone interviews to manufacture evidence countering the suspicion of her by so many that Flores had relayed to her in those calls.

(She had also heard about those suspicions from Ryan, and had no doubt experienced significant hostility from many of TA's friends while she was in Mesa for TA's memorial service on June 16, iirc).

Her anger at what she was told was being said about her by TA's family & friends was evident in her letter to TA's family.

Her anger about what was being said of her grew, quickly and obviously. She wrote her assinine "manifesto" a month later, specifically in response to what "ignorant" folks were saying about her online & elsewhere.

Her portrayal of TA was already becoming sharper-edged and less flattering, but again, literally every lie she told about him in the manifesto was oriented towards describing Travis as the one who was obsessed enough with her that he invaded her privacy and couldn't let go.

So, physical abuse yes, but until February 2010 (at least), an accusation that IMO was still about supporting her lie she had nothing to do with his death because she had no reason to kill him.

Think about what changed after Samuels didn't deliver a trial-ready reason for her fog. To claim fog, she had to gin up another lie, or double down on an existing one.

She first doubled down on the existing lie about physical violence. That won her the fog, but created another, obvious problem. If Travis physically abused her dozens and dozens and dozens of times, didn't that give her a motive to kill him?

Now consider the position the was in about the lack of any evidence of ANY physical abuse, and the fact that even as late as the time of her interviews with DeMarte- many months after she claimed self-defense -she STILL had not linked the pedo lie to her lie about DV.

I think it's important to remember what a transparent, stupid liar the always has been. Remember the email Sky describes that she sent to Travis to convince him to ask her to move to Mesa? Yah. A stalker sent her an email telling her she was beautiful and talented and Travis didn't deserve her, but also that Travis couldn't protect her from being stalked or harmed because he lived so far away, in Mesa.

Stupid. And so obvious that Sky said she burst into laughter when Travis told her about the email.

Same thing can be said about boxing herself in with lies manufactured to prove she wasn't there and anyway, had no reason to kill him. Ditto the ninjas. Ditto her lies to Karp about DV.

Think about the absurdity of her pedo lie in general, and not just of the pedo lie so recklessly attached to January 21.

Her pre-pedo lies and manufacturing of evidence were all about TA being promiscuous, a serial cheater & flirt, sex-crazed, obsessed with her goddess body and self, and half-crazed with jealousy at the very mention or thought of her with another man.

How, exactly, was her accusation about pedo consistent with her first pack of lies about TA? It wasn't, and couldn't be made to be- as Nurmi, defender of pedophiles and sexual deviants has to have known.

She couldn't jettison her first pack of lies about Travis, and didn't want to, because she would never (and never has) admitted that Travis rejected her. Repeatedly, for that matter.

So, in her pedo lie, TA repeatedly seeks out sex with her because having "normal" sex helps squelch his deviant pedo desires.

In her pedo lie, she consents to have sex, repeatedly, with a man she knows is a pedophile, because she the spiritually superior goddess is benevolent ("I know you won't judge me, you never have." In forged 1/21 letter), and because she is willing to sacrifice her own spiritual well being in order to save little boys from TA.

That tied to a tree fantasy and her own "dirty little school girl" role and her post-murder journal lies about other fantasies past and future she had so carefully manufactured to make Travis appear the sex-crazed pursuer?

Right. To square those lies with the pedo lie, she repackages the original "fantasies"
as "fantasy reenactments" she engaged in with Travis to help him contain his pedo urges.

The pedo lie was way more evil than her ninjas lie, but it was also far more stupid and unbelievable.

I keep circling back to forgeries post-arrest because bottom-line, I see that timing as most consistent with the overall timeline, and as significant, with her long-term pattern of lying and MO of creating half-arsed lies to cover her lies, all the while being convinced she would be believed.

It really still bothers me that she also manufactured the dirty little school girl, spidey underwear, and similar while in Mesa. I understand and agree they were HER fantasy. But while I believe she saved all of those text conversations in her not-stolen Helio to expose T at a later time, I also still wonder if she wanted to beef up those manufactured products with the letters.

It seems to me that she did not want to give up the ninja lies until early 2010 because the ninjas took care of the responsibility part. Therefore didn't want to go all in with the pedo and abuse lies which make her look like she had killed him while defending herself.

I will give more thoughts on what you wrote. Very good timeline, as usual.
(hmm.. I don't know why your post shows up twice)

 

[Hope4More]

The January '07 letter absolutely is not from a cut and paste job. It was handwritten on a pristine, unwrinkled, white, evenly textured, unlined sheet of paper.

T's journal was lined, pages were not perfectly clean, had smudges and smears, and seem to have grainy texture. All of those imperfections would show up in different colors when scanned into computer. If you cut and paste from that scan to make a letter, you will have something that really looks like a cut and pasted forged job, not the one Nurmi received.

You can see what I'm talking about on Debbie Maran's analysis where she cut and pasted the 's writing to make her point. You can clearly can see the grey cut and pasted words on white background.
Jodi Arias Trial Truth: Arias and Her Minion

(Not undervaluing Debbie Maran's works at all, I think all her analyses are super great, just not on this one)

I don't share your certainty about the Jan 21 letter not being a cut & paste job, Maran's analysis aside, one way or another.

1. The apparently did have more than one chapter's worth of TA's handwritten work on his book. He texted her about those chapters on May 15, 2008. Any cut & pasting would not have had to come from journal pages.

2. JM describes the PDF letter as a second generation copy, and possibly the copy of a scan. MM, for instance, was apparently handy with computer graphics and the like. It's a very small stretch to imagine him being capable of photoshopping (or using another tool) to erase telltale traces of cut & pasting.

It's even less of a stretch to imagine MM, for instance, slipping up and using TA's initials (or his not having access to the other forged letters for a template), and his dating the letter 2007 instead of 2008.

 

[Hope4More]

It really still bothers me that she also manufactured the dirty little school girl, spidey underwear, and similar while in Mesa. I understand and agree they were HER fantasy. But while I believe she saved all of those text conversations in her not-stolen Helio to expose T at a later time, I also still wonder if she wanted to beef up those manufactured products with the letters.

It seems to me that she did not want to give up the ninja lies until early 2010 because the ninjas took care of the responsibility part. Therefore didn't want to go all in with the pedo and abuse lies which make her look like she had killed him while defending herself.

I will give more thoughts on what you wrote. Very good timeline, as usual.
(hmm.. I don't know why your post shows up twice)

One possible source for the dirty schoolgirl etc thing has occurred to me on & off.

Both Brewer & MM told DT one's mitigation specialist that the at times became very whiny, and when she was whiny her voice sounded little girl childish.

I can only imagine how often Travis heard that voice. Maybe after hearing it for the hundredth time, he told her she sounded like a little girl, and instead of responding to the exasperation he was expressing, she turned what he was saying upside down and came up with the horny school girl idea.

Notice on the May 10 call (if any part of it was actually recorded on that date) she doesn't bring up either horny schoolgirl or spidies, just the pigtails. If she had already thought of smearing him with pedo, isn't it likely she would have made reference to those "fantasy reinactments?"

(That he liked her in pigtails doesn't mean he liked the horny school girl thing. For all we know, he might have been creeped out by it).

 

[pocketaccent]

I misremembered when she must have arrived in Pasadena. You're right. She didn't have time to nap there.

When did she sleep next? I think she didn't have the opportunity to until after she crossed over the Hoover dam, when she was 30-40 minutes max from Las Vegas and Gus's trailer, perhaps?

It took her a very long time between gassing up in Mesquite and arriving in West Jordan. Zzzzz's in LV after a post-murder adreneline crash...

Could she have lasted that long without sleep since the morning of June 3? I know I couldn't even as a young and fresh student and remember the woozy feeling I got when I used to pull all nighters to study for exams.

So she had about 4 hours to sleep in Vegas area after midnight? On June 5, she again had a very little sleep after arriving at Ryan's, woke up 3am to go back home.

 

[RickshawFan]

I misremembered when she must have arrived in Pasadena. You're right. She didn't have time to nap there.

When did she sleep next? I think she didn't have the opportunity to until after she crossed over the Hoover dam, when she was 30-40 minutes max from Las Vegas and Gus's trailer, perhaps?

It took her a very long time between gassing up in Mesquite and arriving in West Jordan. Zzzzz's in LV after a post-murder adreneline crash...

I'm confused, but maybe I don't understand what you're saying.

Isn't Mesquite between LV and West Jordan? So if she spent inordinate hours getting from Mesquite to WJ, she isn't likely to have been sleeping in LV?

I've also forgotten the timeline between the call to Ryan and the gas fill in Mesquite.

 

[RickshawFan]

******

Both Brewer & MM told DT one's mitigation specialist that the at times became very whiny, and when she was whiny her voice sounded little girl childish.

********

Seems to me, had a regular habit of adopting a "young" voice. It was another manipulation, but it also went along with her flirty demeanor around men and her angst about not being married even though she was—to her mind—"older" as well as in danger herself of not meeting Mormon guidelines for marrying young.

Along with the whinies: breathiness, timbre, faked helplessness, cocked head, rescue me I'm stupid, "you big meanie"....

 

[geevee]

I'm confused, but maybe I don't understand what you're saying.

Isn't Mesquite between LV and West Jordan? So if she spent inordinate hours getting from Mesquite to WJ, she isn't likely to have been sleeping in LV?

I've also forgotten the timeline between the call to Ryan and the gas fill in Mesquite.

Since the Mesquite purchase was on her bank statement instead of receipt, I don't know if we've ever had the time she filled up there (purchase amount 46.11). Although when I did the map of her route it seems like I had more than a general time for it (might have guesstimated it from the number of miles though). And yes, Mesquite is between LV and WJ (81 miles from LV, 330 miles from WJ).

Been thinking about Travis today, like most of us, and probably like most of us, although none of us met him in life, I bet all of us miss him in some fashion.

 

[RickshawFan]

The January '07 letter absolutely is not from a cut and paste job. It was handwritten on a pristine, unwrinkled, white, evenly textured, unlined sheet of paper.

T's journal was lined, pages were not perfectly clean, had smudges and smears, and seem to have grainy texture. All of those imperfections would show up in different colors when scanned into computer. If you cut and paste from that scan to make a letter, you will have something that really looks like a cut and pasted forged job, not the one Nurmi received.

You can see what I'm talking about on Debbie Maran's analysis where she cut and pasted the 's writing to make her point. You can clearly can see the grey cut and pasted words on white background.
Jodi Arias Trial Truth: Arias and Her Minion

(Not undervaluing Debbie Maran's works at all, I think all her analyses are super great, just not on this one)

I believe any background mess could have been cleaned up on a computer; hit a few buttons, and it's done. No problem matching grey scales so the writing all looks like it was written at the same time.

 

[Hope4More]

I'm confused, but maybe I don't understand what you're saying.

Isn't Mesquite between LV and West Jordan? So if she spent inordinate hours getting from Mesquite to WJ, she isn't likely to have been sleeping in LV?

I've also forgotten the timeline between the call to Ryan and the gas fill in Mesquite.

Sorry. If you're confused it's because I meant Henderson, not Mesquite (Henderson is right over the hills after Hoover Dam, and essentially in the outer ring of LV sprawl.

Wasn't there a receipt for something or another bought in Henderson, NV?

In any case, I was thinking Henderson receipt which could theoretically line her up for a nap at Gus's trailer, but I'm very likely misremembering the timeline between her call to Burns while still in aZ (around 11:30ish PM, iirc), and her arrival in West Jordan (between 10-11AM).

I remember (I think ) that approximately 3 hours or so were unaccounted for in the timeline.

Whatever the particulars, she surely didn't seem to get much sleep between June 3 and June 6.

But, then again, she has the rest of her life in prison to catch up on her zzzzz's, even if it's in a tiny cement box , on a plastic covered wafer-thin mattress, between 2 scratchy sheets, with a fellow felon sleeping inches away ( and snoring loudly enough to rattle the 's cans of anchovies, hopefully), breathing in the whiff of commode also mere inches away, and being disturbed off and on all night every night by guards doing bed checks, and lights that are never turned off, and insomniac inmates in cells close by.

 

[geevee]

Respectfully snipped by me:

Second ORDER: "..appellant may file a motion under seal on or before June 5, 2018, detailing those portions of the brief that appellant believes should be sealed

So does that mean they have through today to list what they want sealed or brief must be filed plus what they want sealed? I'm a little confused on when the brief is actually due now.

 

[Hope4More]

Respectfully snipped by me:



So does that mean they have through today to list what they want sealed or brief must be filed plus what they want sealed? I'm a little confused on when the brief is actually due now.

They have until close of court today to file a reply about which portions of the brief they want sealed.

If they don't file that motion, the brief is due tomorrow, and it will be filed electronically and available a minute later, unsealed and in it's entirety.

If they do file a motion today, it will likely be another couple of weeks before we see their brief, because at the very least, the Court will need time review the motion and rule. It's also possible that the Court will allow the State to respond to the particulars of what her attorneys want sealed before they rule.

I really think the COA called her attorneys' bluff by demanding they provide specific justification for each portion they want sealed.

Their reply to the Court on this would be sealed for now, but that's one more portion of the record I would love to read.

 

[geevee]

They have until close of court today to file a reply about which portions of the brief they want sealed.

If they don't file that motion, the brief is due tomorrow, and it will be filed electronically and available a minute later, unsealed and in it's entirety.

If they do file a motion today, it will likely be another couple of weeks before we see their brief, because at the very least, the Court will need time review the motion and rule. It's also possible that the Court will allow the State to respond to the particulars of what her attorneys want sealed before they rule.

I really think the COA called her attorneys' bluff by demanding they provide specific justification for each portion they want sealed.

Their reply to the Court on this would be sealed for now, but that's one more portion of the record I would love to read.

Thanks! And darn, I don't wanna wait weeks now that we know we'll get to see the majority of it. lol

 

[geevee]

Have to run some errands, will be back in a bit.

 

[Hope4More]

Thanks! And darn, I don't wanna wait weeks now that we know we'll get to see the majority of it. lol

I'm more than ready to read that dang thing too-- it's been a loooooooong wait already.

That said, I doubt we are going to be surprised by much, if anything, in that double-long brief.

The irony is that IMO, everyone involved knows, including the , that her appeal is going to be denied.

Unless Karen Clark is working pro bono (I doubt it), the seems to be spending her appeals trust fund on laying the ground for her PCR. I'm guessing she's convinced she can win that round.

 

[Hope4More]

Well, there it is on the COA docket. 's attorneys filed a sealed (of course) reply to the Court's order that they justify sealing portions of their brief.

Whether or not they already provided such justification in their reply can't be known because it's sealed, but perhaps one clue that they did not is that....wait for it...yes, they are requesting ANOTHER extension of the filing deadline. Their 4th request made after the COA gave them an absolutely final, this is it, no more delays deadline, months ago.

The COA can just say no, file it tomorrow, on time. But the odds of that are exceedingly slim.

Best guess: the COA grants a 4th extension of the due date, one that not only gives her attorneys time to work on their spin, but also time for the process I mentioned in my post above (giving the State and the Court time for review of & response to proposed seals/redactions).

Probably a wait of between two weeks to a month longer, IMO.

(I'm feeling like Charlie Brown watching Lucy with that football.)

 

[geevee]

Well, there it is on the COA docket. 's attorneys filed a sealed (of course) reply to the Court's order that they justify sealing portions of their brief.

Whether or not they already provided such justification in their reply can't be known because it's sealed, but perhaps one clue that they did not is that....wait for it...yes, they are requesting ANOTHER extension of the filing deadline. Their 4th request made after the COA gave them an absolutely final, this is it, no more delays deadline, months ago.

The COA can just say no, file it tomorrow, on time. But the odds of that are exceedingly slim.

Best guess: the COA grants a 4th extension of the due date, one that not only gives her attorneys time to work on their spin, but also time for the process I mentioned in my post above (giving the State and the Court time for review of & response to proposed seals/redactions).

Probably a wait of between two weeks to a month longer, IMO.

(I'm feeling like Charlie Brown watching Lucy with that football.)

I'm not a bit surprised and it crossed my mind earlier but didn't want to jinx anything my mentioning it. In lieu of throwing a tantrum (which I actually sorta feel like lol), I'll just grab my Linus blanket, pop my thumb in my mouth and wait them out.

About the PCR, that goes before JSS right? I do think that's what she's pinning her hopes (and money) on but it's beyond me why she thinks JSS would even remotely consider granting her a hair's width of relief, much less a new trial.

 

[MsJosie]

Well, there it is on the COA docket. 's attorneys filed a sealed (of course) reply to the Court's order that they justify sealing portions of their brief.

Whether or not they already provided such justification in their reply can't be known because it's sealed, but perhaps one clue that they did not is that....wait for it...yes, they are requesting ANOTHER extension of the filing deadline. Their 4th request made after the COA gave them an absolutely final, this is it, no more delays deadline, months ago.

The COA can just say no, file it tomorrow, on time. But the odds of that are exceedingly slim.

Best guess: the COA grants a 4th extension of the due date, one that not only gives her attorneys time to work on their spin, but also time for the process I mentioned in my post above (giving the State and the Court time for review of & response to proposed seals/redactions).

Probably a wait of between two weeks to a month longer, IMO.

(I'm feeling like Charlie Brown watching Lucy with that football.)

Thanks Hope and Geevee for explaining this all...my head is spinning,....I am sure tha5 is what the defense wants but others do understand. I would hope they are not given an extension....this is beyond ridiculous!