Sentencing and beyond- Jodi Arias General Discussion #2

[deedee21]

ALV said men like Dr. Drew are dangerous. She said they need to be stopped from speaking out against women like Jodi Arias and Casey Anthony. Even the death of a child wont shut her up. Theres no shame in her game. Its to profitable

 

[RickshawFan]

Some things that might fall within the scope of that AG Section deal with either 1)the donated money being set up so that JA can claim indigency, 2)something involving the jury (description specifies jury tampering) or 3)possibly fraud leading up to evidence presented at trial. The first is pretty obvious and a couple court 'officers' could have been involved in that. The second could be juror 17, possibly whoever helped release juror's names or maybe even that episode involving Janet and the jurors. 3rd might be whoever helped her with the pedo letter forgeries, or maybe something to do with procuring the testimony of the New Zealand guy with the help of a couple of her fans. For it to be assigned to this section, I'd think it's serious and someone or several someones should be worried. This could also very possibly deal with something we know nothing at all about - so many secret closed door meetings/motions/ex parte communications, etc.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that multiple channels are being investigated, and the topics are "all of the above"! Add to the pile child pandering and money laundering. In addition, consumer fraud by MDLR's employer for hiring a small-time crook under their contract with the State of AZ. This could all be one big rabbit hole: I think we could be entitled to suggest a JA-camp conspiracy with a diversified portfolio of crimes.

Following the SIS investigation could be all kinds of convoluted fun.

 

[RickshawFan]

ALV said men like Dr. Drew are dangerous. She said they need to be stopped from speaking out against women like Jodi Arias and Casey Anthony. Even the death of a child wont shut her up. Theres no shame in her game. Its to profitable

I can't figure out who would even go to one of ALV's workshops. After she did that on TV with millions watching? Lying to defend an obvious psychopath? Reading her fantasies "behind the words"?

 

[Hope4More]

Do the indigent attorneys cover the line of appeal that goes through JSS or substitute? I forget what it's called. But it happens after the current line of appeal.

I hope if it comes time for JA to shell out for a private attorney, s/he just runs the bill up without doing the work. That would be delicious.

You're thinking of the Post Conviction Relief process, and yes AZ will pay for her atty --that is, if she's still considered indigent.

It isn't an appeal, but it is in a very hypothetical sense a chance to change the outcome of a trial. The vast majority of PCR petitions get rejected flat out. The killer has to convince --JSS! or a substitute --beforehand that she has "new evidence" or a case for ineffective counsel that is so compelling it warrants an evidentiary hearing. LOL. So not happening..

 

[Hope4More]

Hope4More, isn't PCR also at state expense? Maybe that's one of the two?

Some things that might fall within the scope of that AG Section deal with either 1)the donated money being set up so that JA can claim indigency, 2)something involving the jury (description specifies jury tampering) or 3)possibly fraud leading up to evidence presented at trial. The first is pretty obvious and a couple court 'officers' could have been involved in that. The second could be juror 17, possibly whoever helped release juror's names or maybe even that episode involving Janet and the jurors. 3rd might be whoever helped her with the pedo letter forgeries, or maybe something to do with procuring the testimony of the New Zealand guy with the help of a couple of her fans. For it to be assigned to this section, I'd think it's serious and someone or several someones should be worried. This could also very possibly deal with something we know nothing at all about - so many secret closed door meetings motions/ex parte communications, etc.

I'm very unimpressed with her appeal attorneys. To date, the work they seem to be concentrating on is alienating the court. I would think that to take that risk so early in the appeals process you'd want to make sure that it was an important issue and that you were standing on solid legal ground - I just don't see that with anything they've submitted so far. If this issue is, as the AG said, unrelated to JA's appeal, then the COA wouldn't have jurisdiction. Why file a motion with them instead of requesting a meeting with the Superior Court judge & AG's office? The COA seal order was about records being used for the appeal, not for unrelated criminal activity. It's not as if Superior Court doesn't retain authority over their own records outside of the appeal and it's possible the judge verified it was not on the list of records req'd.

All I know is the day that I am no longer interested in the happenings surrounding this case seems a long way off - will we ever get our answers?

IIRC, didn't juror 17 hire an attorney? Maybe the State is responding to a lawsuit, not initiating one, but is doing a defensive investigation?

So many possibilities, but I guess I'd be very very surprised if the AG chose to go after anyone involved in the trial other than an State employee. My bet is still on Janet or MDL (especially if they link her to the jury names leak or to setting up the killer's trust).

Lin, I agree about her attys. WTH. In this motion they argue that the Superior Court held improper ex parte proceedings, inappropriately refused to tell them what was in the motion, and that the Sup Court doesn't have jurisdiction of her court records, which is why they're trying to kick it to the COA.

You know, the very same COA where they've asserted not one judge can be trusted to remain impartial. LOL. What's next on their agenda must be figuring out how to piss off AZ Supreme Court judges...

 

[Hope4More]

.......I think we could be entitled to suggest a JA-camp conspiracy with a diversified portfolio of crimes.

What a great line! :cheer:

 

[LinTX]

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that multiple channels are being investigated, and the topics are "all of the above"! Add to the pile child pandering and money laundering. In addition, consumer fraud by MDLR's employer for hiring a small-time crook under their contract with the State of AZ. This could all be one big rabbit hole: I think we could be entitled to suggest a JA-camp conspiracy with a diversified portfolio of crimes.

Following the SIS investigation could be all kinds of convoluted fun.

I have a request since we're talking piles of possibilities. Can we throw Bryan Neumeister into the mix? Just for fun?

(Not because I can think of anything that would be outside her appeal, but just b/c I can't stand the guy with his rude and pathetic 'performance' as computer forensics 'expert' along with his ridiculous reflection/eye business)

 

[gcharlie]

I have a request since we're talking piles of possibilities. Can we throw Bryan Neumeister into the mix? Just for fun?

(Not because I can think of anything that would be outside her appeal, but just b/c I can't stand the guy with his rude and pathetic 'performance' as computer forensics 'expert' along with his ridiculous reflection/eye business)

Funny to let the imagination run wild with speculation on this one. And yes, Neumeister popped into my head, especially with the mention of computers in the department description of crimes investigated by the Department of Fraud and Public Corruption.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

There are some interesting comments at this link, especially the second one. Hmmm:thinking:



https://disqus.com/home/discussion/...land_maria_de_la_rosa_named_on_bank_accounts/

 

[pinkandgreenmom]

IIRC, didn't juror 17 hire an attorney? Maybe the State is responding to a lawsuit, not initiating one, but is doing a defensive investigation?

So many possibilities, but I guess I'd be very very surprised if the AG chose to go after anyone involved in the trial other than an State employee. My bet is still on Janet or MDL (especially if they link her to the jury names leak or to setting up the killer's trust).

Lin, I agree about her attys. WTH. In this motion they argue that the Superior Court held improper ex parte proceedings, inappropriately refused to tell them what was in the motion, and that the Sup Court doesn't have jurisdiction of her court records, which is why they're trying to kick it to the COA.

You know, the very same COA where they've asserted not one judge can be trusted to remain impartial. LOL. What's next on their agenda must be figuring out how to piss off AZ Supreme Court judges...

I am so sorry to ask this because I feel like I should know- but who is Janet? :blushing:

 

[franquerolane]

Janet was JSS's assistant, tne blond sitting to her left during trial.

 

[pinkandgreenmom]

Janet was JSS's assistant, tne blond sitting to her left during trial.

Yikes. Thank you for the info. I missed that somehow. Off to search.

 

[Val1]

After a brief look at that sick manifesto....since JA specifies that TA had an "agenda" about connecting with her when they first met, it seems quite plain that she was the one with the agenda and she is doing her usual projections of her wishes onto TA. Also, she goes on and on about the thousands at the convention; she is very defensive on this issue. I read it that she is covering up for having stalked him there.

My first take is that someone participated in writing this with her: the words and phrasing are too polished for her usual. As we know, her normal vocabulary and grammar are "off". From the style, someone has heavily edited. It's all her hallmark thoughts, but not her frequent rediculous articulations and immature, breathy, wording.

The one thing that struck me while reading it was the utter lack of any mention of sexual activity between them, just inferences that they had been "seeing" each other free of the usual Mormon chaperones. That says to me(having come from another pretty strict religious upbringing) meant that they could openly flirt, talk dirty, swear, drink frappicunos(sp?), and even sleep in the same room(to save money, not necessarily to have sex) without the added fact that TA was actually dating Mormon girls while going on these unsupervised trips with someone that his friends didn't approve of.

I really think their actual sexual activity was way less than what JA tried to project, especially since her whole thing to try and woo TA was to appear to be a good Mormon girl worth marrying and when that fell through because of her obsessive spying/jealousy/whatever, she attempted the one big "sacrifice" of letting him have her and when she realized she'd just let him have the milk for free, so to speak, and that he had no impetus left to marry her because of it and in fact started seeing others with marriage in mind(as stated in his blog), she really started to lose it and started planning her revenge for having wasted so much of the limited(biologically speaking) time she had left to find a rich husband.

<snipped>

 

[Val1]

Just to remind us of what JA is fighting... sucks to be her.:jail:

http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov/docs/Criminal/042015/m6785654.pdf

AS PUNISHMENT, IT IS ORDERED Defendant is sentenced to a term of imprisonment
and is committed to the Arizona Department of Corrections as follows:
Count 1: Natural Life year(s) from 4/13/15
Presentence Incarceration Credit: 2,463 day(s)
The Defendant is not to be released for any reason for the remainder of her natural life.

 

[b_lab7410]

B-lab...

Thanks for your long and thoughtful reply.

I agree with you on some points and disagree about others, but primarily am grateful for your explanation about how TA's childhood might have shaped how he handled/responded to feeling anger towards another. It sounds spot on in general, and IMO helps make sense of something important about Travis that contributed to his vulnerablity to the killer .

Thanks, I think I deleted my specific reference to 'PTSD triggers,'... any of that vivid hurt or anger working as the association for prior sensations. His adult facial expressions seem rather innocent/naive, I've seen that myself with children and adults still yet very sensitive with a history of abuse or being bullied. In cases of the abused with siblings, much of what they learn comes a sense of wanting to protect their younger siblings. Didn't surprise me his family was so passionate about him. The eldest turn out with a heart of gold and a bit of a hero complex, which is fine. But TA's facial expressions never indicate ANY firm resolve. You can see this shyness in hurt pets as well. I worked at an on-site not-for-profit agency for children in need for a few years, observation, background, care providers, you see a general trend in the abused AND in the children that start abusing.

TA said he 'shifted away from the pain reflexively' during any assault (at age 6?, and I think he was implying he only left his back exposed). That "out of body" response is helplessness. Your body doesn't know if you're going to survive so you brace yourself. There's no way this didn't correspond with some of that learned helplessness later on. Someone else mentioned this in another post, and as you state below, I think he WAS going through a crisis of sorts that happened to hit in his mid-life and should have pursued some much needed therapy. It's REALLY hard to get them to do this on their own though. Usually they need support to get them to go.

I agree that the killer is primarily a sociopathic predator, and that she could destabilize him by simply inserting herself into his life and not budging, which is what she did. But, she did more than that, and she definitely deliberately exploited his vulnerabilities. He needed constant praise, the more over the top the better, and she gave that to him. She knew he was insecure in general and specifically about whether or not he was attractive, desirable, and worthy, and she very much used that as a weapon, repeatedly, stoking his jealousy to keep him off balance. She knew he felt good about himself when he was helpful to others, and her most constant ploy, virtually an every day occurrence, was to ask for his help on everything...loan of car and money, food or dinner out when she claimed being broke, help with computers and PPL or how to handle a situation... the list is endless.

One thing about those with severe Borderline though, is that they always fixate. They're mentally unstable and in a position to become stalkers internalizing huge amounts of rage, Arias is a poster-child. I should clarify, I think they're methodical, but I meant to say it's a tune they play naturally at some point. No one loves them, you always do wrong by them, your fault for everything. The more they control others, the more narcissism I see as well. I don't attribute it to genetics, I think the more extreme BPD is self-taught, they're always the victim, either one is anti-social. They go on a mission to undervalue another person's feelings. Verbally and emotionally.

I was stalked by a co-worker a few years ago with both these traits, a person whom appeared* collected, but seemed to be seething underneath. I was left feeling like I had familiarize myself with accounts of others, footage and research into others with BPD. At the time, I couldn't leave my workplace, and the job refused to identify her behavior as hostile because she outwardly appeared 'controlled' and they generally don't like to get involved with employee relations up until a point. She was calculating, in the manner though that she was always trying 'to win' control. CMJA tries everything in the book and she is exhausting herself. Not a bright bulb, and very hard to shake loose. Best advice is to steer clear, don't try to be nice to them, the eyes gave it away IMO.

The healthy people Travis had in his life? He had them the entire time he lived in AZ. It is one of the most remarkable things about TA, I think, that he was able to build such a strong, happy, caring, successful community of friends and associates for himself so early in his life, especially given what he had to overcome first.

The PPL network was new for him, no? I don't think he even met Deanna until 1998. Seemed to me that he received some much needed role-models in his later 20s (aside from family influence/Deanna).

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I wonder what happened with all of this BS? I don't recall hearing the outcome. The part concerning the butcheress #281129 is further down in the article.



https://cases.nationalcdp.org/juan-martinez/

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Damn, what a difference 40 odd years makes. This is ALV in her younger years.

 

[samspace070]

Hopefully some of those "out of the country" scammers are under Paul Ahler's watchful eye, or uh oh... maybe it's that one dude who lied about Travis confessing to him about being a pedo (can't recall his name right now). Nah, I am just having a "wishful thinking moment." Damn to be a fly on the wall of the court sealings. :happydance:

I believe that liar was Mark McGee, from New Zealand. Like you I hope it is him they are looking for. I read somewhere that Juan put out an arrest warrant for him if he ever lands in the US again or maybe it was AZ again. I have looked for the article everywhere but can't find it, does anyone else remember reading about that?

 

[RickshawFan]

AS PUNISHMENT, IT IS ORDERED Defendant is sentenced to a term of imprisonment
and is committed to the Arizona Department of Corrections as follows:
Count 1: Natural Life year(s) from 4/13/15
Presentence Incarceration Credit: 2,463 day(s)
The Defendant is not to be released for any reason for the remainder of her natural life.

I have always loved it that JSS worded the sentence this way. It kinda rubs it in, doesn't it?

 

[RickshawFan]

Damn, what a difference 40 odd years makes. This is ALV in her younger years.




View attachment 83672

Wow...was that her husband? The father of her children? Was LaViolette a made-up name? I'll bet ALV disowns ever having run for High School Party Queen: it's just so sexist.