Sheri Coleman, sons Garett and Gavin murdered 5-5-09, Columbia, IL. Pt9

[gitana1]

Horrible to think exactly how these murders took place. I cringe away from thinking about Sheri and her sons' last moments. Can you imagine? I think it is intensely hateful to strangle someone. All the details about how he actually did it creep me out. I hope he rots.

 

[Bluenotes]

I just did the test with my dinner guests - all right handed and all agreed that they hold the Starbucks cup with the left hand and peel off the lid with the right.

OK - gotta run back in to dinner!

I'm right handed, but I do just the opposite. I'm somewhat ambidextrous though.

 

[Bluenotes]

I'm right handed - hold cup with left, remove top with right.
DH is left handed - hold cup with right, remove top with left.

I'm also wondering why the left/right handed test. I thought at first it was because of the "scratch" or whatever on his arm - but then I got to thinking that which hand would be affected by different factors: whether the victim was left or right handed, whether the victim was on her stomach or back, whether the little guy came in to help mom and grabbed him with the hand that seemed to be doing the most damage................
give us a hint, Wrinkles...... my brain isn't able to take much more use today! :doh:

ETA - I'm going to pass the time with Lindadanette looking for MM in those videos.

I must be odd. I hold the bottle with my right hand and twist with my left. I also cross my arms with my left over my right. I can't write at all with my left hand, but I seem to use it a lot. When I played baseball, I could switch hit and I throw/kick well with my left hand/foot when playing sports. My left arm is also my strongest. Weird.

 

[rollinon86]

Did anyone who went see which hand he was writing with when he was taking notes in court?

He used his right hand to write with!

ETA: If he would be ambidexterous, he could still favor one hand or the other and if he wrote with his right hand, I would assume that would be the one he favors!! My DH is ambi but also favors the right for doing most things!

 

[TallCoolOne]

You know that's a really good question. They thought enough of CC to make him their personal security guard - I imagine he was the one watching all the others. Makes me shudder to think of it.

I would hope that JM is smart enough to have had separate video that was off limits to CC - but I'm thinking he's the one who has the goods (if there are goods to be had)

I rather liken it to the fox guarding the chickencoop.......

 

[TallCoolOne]

YouTube - Joyce Meyer Fan is Excited

Forward to about 1:10 and get ready to pause - notice the chick in the red sweater "helping" CC? This video was either taken at the borders in Winter Park or Barnes & Noble in Ft Lauderdale on May 1st, 2008. CC was in Florida then and I'm just about willing to bet the farm that he and MM started the "trouble a year ago" back then.

Orlando is just an hour and a half drive from the Tampa Bay area. I've gone to a JMM in Orlando myself.

http://www.joycemeyer.org/jmmweb/jmmads/STTH/secret-true-happiness-book-tour.aspx

I had to watch it several time as I was too engrossed in how that woman in the white pants was behaving. All I can say about that is........ sheesh. What the he!! was she on? That's unreal. I'm sorry, but to get that worked up over someone like JM is beyond my comprehension. *shrugs* Oh well, to each his own I reckon.

I can't tell from that quick glimpse if that was MM or not. I don't think I'd be able to say either way, but if it is, I have to hand it to you, Lindadanette, for catching that!

I'm still having a difficult time grasping how that woman was reacting to JM though...........

 

[TallCoolOne]

Just a guess, but I'm thinking our dear Wrinkles is attempting to determine how CC got that "abrasion" on his arm.

Someone (???) earlier mentioned that the defense could argue that someone other than CC accessed his work computer to type and send the incriminating messages. I have to admit, I was worried that "chain of possession" could be an issue. However, I have to assume that the computer was password protected and I personally feel it would have been a HUGE breach of security for the HEAD of JMM security to have given his password to someone or to have compromised it in any way. I would say he couldn't possibly be that stupid, but I think we all know that he could be that stupid!

Ahem............. well, MOST of us anyway..........

 

[TallCoolOne]

Hello Knox,

THANKS! I have been hoping to get the big brains in here thinking on this one... That arm injury is important, in my estimation. Of course, it could be cross linked to fingernails of the deceased -- but your take has "expanded" the thinking...



My thinking was, maybe originally he first went to Sheri and caught her off guard with the chokehold (which she fought with fingers/nails), then passed out -- then he did the ligature (but we really need more info on that which was found.) But -- as I add to my thinking with yours -- why couldn't daddy have gone in to his sleeping kids and put his arm around them (as if to give them a trusted loving arm snuggle, without their question -- daddy has always been safe), then do precisely what you wrote.

IF this was ligature, as we have been told so far, he had to get that ligature around them someway -- and he probably wanted to do that with the least amount of noise. Did Chris disarm all of his victims with unconsciousness through a chokehold first? Which arm would he have used for that, and would that be the reason for his right forearm injury?

There are right and left dominant people everywhere... It might have been convenient if he were left dominant and that statistic could have worked against him, but either way, a dominance with one arm or another and then defensive wounds to that arm seems important.

Thanks for "braining" this one!

Well, the good thing is that if there were indeed scratches on his arm, there would have been skin cells under at least one of the victims fingernails.

I'm sure LE knows what handed he is.

I'm sorry, I can't help you on your experiment, I am ambidextrous....


but I have both of my arms..........

 

[TallCoolOne]

Hey, sorry about all the posts in a row. Just got home from work and playing catch up and I hate it when it appears as if I'm talking to myself..............





~TCO~ but actually, it's okay if you talk to yourself......... it's even okay if you answer.



You only have to worry if you catch yourself going "huh?"

 

[Ginny]

Don't feel bad, TCO. Sometimes the voices in my head argue with one another....

 

[dgfred]

I used a pepsi bottle with a twist off lid, I am right handed, hold the bottle with my left and twist with my right. I would do the same with a cup of coffee, stabilize with my left and complete the portions requiring dexterity with my right (remove lid, stir, hand off).

I always hold the hot cup with my stronger hand (which is my right) and remove the lid with my weaker hand... but that's just me.

 

[Lindadanette]

I had to watch it several time as I was too engrossed in how that woman in the white pants was behaving. All I can say about that is........ sheesh. What the he!! was she on? That's unreal. I'm sorry, but to get that worked up over someone like JM is beyond my comprehension. *shrugs* Oh well, to each his own I reckon.

I can't tell from that quick glimpse if that was MM or not. I don't think I'd be able to say either way, but if it is, I have to hand it to you, Lindadanette, for catching that!

I'm still having a difficult time grasping how that woman was reacting to JM though...........

Yeah - that's pretty much indicative about the current state of JMM - She's transformed herself into a "rock-star" who uses the Gospel of Jesus Christ to further her own ambition. She's doing good works "in the name of Jesus", but she's the "CEO". Watch one of JMM's annual reports - At first glance it's all very moving to see the good works she does. But if you dig deeper, the only difference between JMM and any other multi-million dollar corporation is that JMM doesn't pay taxes.

 

[dgfred]

I'm starting to worry about their defense and who they are going to try to pin this tragedy on... I wonder if they will try a stranger, the 'cop' across the street, someone in JMM, or someone pissed with JMM. It looks like he had to be setting up someone for the fall... and something happened that night to throw his timetable out of wack. That is why I am confused about him telling
TL that he was serving the divorce papers the next day, was this terrible deed already done? Why would he tell TL that and expect her not to be suspicious when his family just happened to show up dead that day?

 

[waterlooinspector]

This article appeared in the Post Dispatch this morning:

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/ne...7E0141666D438D15862575D300073CB4?OpenDocument

Bill McClellan is a "tongue in cheek" columnist for the PD and usually has some very accurate insights about difficult to report items.

For all of you who live outside the St. Louis area, it gives a very good description of Waterloo and Monroe County, IL. While it may not be "Mayberry", it is not too far off. It is one of the reasons why I moved here, because the pace of life is so slow and still we are only 25 miles from the Arch.

Our local LE, here in Monroe County,do not see things like the Coleman murders on a regular basis. I keep thinking about the first responders that went into the house. In their reports they gave pretty accurate detail of Sheri and what they saw. They did not have much detail in their reports about the condition of the boys though. I know these guys and gals are trained, but I wonder if the local LE were just overwhelmed with emotion about what they saw. Just trying to put myself in their shoes.....thank God for the MCS......

 

[Lindadanette]

This article appeared in the Post Dispatch this morning:

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/ne...7E0141666D438D15862575D300073CB4?OpenDocument

Bill McClellan is a "tongue in cheek" columnist for the PD and usually has some very accurate insights about difficult to report items.

For all of you who live outside the St. Louis area, it gives a very good description of Waterloo and Monroe County, IL. While it may not be "Mayberry", it is not too far off. It is one of the reasons why I moved here, because the pace of life is so slow and still we are only 25 miles from the Arch.

Our local LE, here in Monroe County,do not see things like the Coleman murders on a regular basis. I keep thinking about the first responders that went into the house. In their reports they gave pretty accurate detail of Sheri and what they saw. They did not have much detail in their reports about the condition of the boys though. I know these guys and gals are trained, but I wonder if the local LE were just overwhelmed with emotion about what they saw. Just trying to put myself in their shoes.....thank God for the MCS......

Thanks for the link, it's a very good article!

 

[Lindadanette]

I'm starting to worry about their defense and who they are going to try to pin this tragedy on... I wonder if they will try a stranger, the 'cop' across the street, someone in JMM, or someone pissed with JMM. It looks like he had to be setting up someone for the fall... and something happened that night to throw his timetable out of wack. That is why I am confused about him telling
TL that he was serving the divorce papers the next day, was this terrible deed already done? Why would he tell TL that and expect her not to be suspicious when his family just happened to show up dead that day?

IIRC, CC had given LE a list of people who had made threats against JM in the past. It occurs to me that one of those folks (real or imagined) was probably going to be his scapegoat. He was fostering and then playing on JM's acute paranoia - As someone said, cat and mouse.

So what happened to his timetable? I can't help but think that he totally undersestimated SC's reaction to a conversation he had with her that night. I keep thinking that she had squashed her feelings for a long time and went off on him verbally, big time. If this happened, I doubt that CC could abide having his sons hear what a he was described in detail, so he probably threatened her and she told him that she was going to expose him to the world. I know this has been said by me and others here already, but I think this is the most logical explanation for the flash point explosion of violence in what appears to be an otherwise coldly calculated plan.

 

[who knew?]

This article appeared in the Post Dispatch this morning:

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/ne...7E0141666D438D15862575D300073CB4?OpenDocument

snipped......

Wow - what a great article! Thanks for posting it.

 

[Blackwatch]

I'm starting to worry about their defense and who they are going to try to pin this tragedy on... I wonder if they will try a stranger, the 'cop' across the street, someone in JMM, or someone pissed with JMM. It looks like he had to be setting up someone for the fall... and something happened that night to throw his timetable out of wack. That is why I am confused about him telling
TL that he was serving the divorce papers the next day, was this terrible deed already done? Why would he tell TL that and expect her not to be suspicious when his family just happened to show up dead that day?

BBM. Because a man with his comtempt for all women thinks they are all stupid and will believe anything he/a man says. But, that's just my opinion.

 

[who knew?]

IIRC, CC had given LE a list of people who had made threats against JM in the past. It occurs to me that one of those folks (real or imagined) was probably going to be his scapegoat. He was fostering and then playing on JM's acute paranoia - As someone said, cat and mouse.

So what happened to his timetable? I can't help but think that he totally undersestimated SC's reaction to a conversation he had with her that night. I keep thinking that she had squashed her feelings for a long time and went off on him verbally, big time. If this happened, I doubt that CC could abide having his sons hear what a he was described in detail, so he probably threatened her and she told him that she was going to expose him to the world. I know this has been said by me and others here already, but I think this is the most logical explanation for the flash point explosion of violence in what appears to be an otherwise coldly calculated plan.

ITA - and the one thing above all others that will convict him is TOD. He totally screwed up that part of this. If he killed them at 11:00, why he would think he could fake it by 7 (or 5 - or even 3) hours is beyond me.

 

[who knew?]

Today 01:18 AM
who knew? I remember we discussed plastic at some point - was that rumor or speculation? Is it possible he slipped plastic bags over their faces and then the ligatures?

Disturbing thought ... Guess we will have to wait until the trial to see those type of details come out. Where did that info come from?

Does anyone remember the discussion about the plastic? It was a few days ago. I could look it up but am "multi-tasking" at the moment.