Should Don Imus be fired?

[Jeana (DP)]

What happened to sending "bad" threads to the Parking Lot like in the old days? That's what it was for. Now they get locked up or deleted. (Usually by you, hehe.)

Ahhhhhh, the good old days. We've discovered that the flames just get bigger there.

 

[Nova]

Come on folks. You really don't want to see me lock up this thread, do you?????? Lets all try to act like we're over the age of 7 and keep it civil.

Sorry, Jeana. I'm trying to distinguish between what I believe to be a juvenile argument and two posters I respect. That I think they're wrong in this one regard doesn't change the latter opinion.

 

[Dark Knight]

Right, 'cause "appearance" is the point here.

I remember the good old days when "enlightenment" was reached through reflection and study, not through cheap moral equivalences.

Just because Paladin doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they are making cheap moral equivilances. Sometimes a simple answer shows the enlightenment brought about via reflection and study. Said in a few words rather than a few paragraphs of repetitive talking points. (Which you've accused me of more than a few times.) :snooty:

 

[Dark Knight]

Ahhhhhh, the good old days. We've discovered that the flames just get bigger there.

LOL! Yes, because it was OK there, we figured! It was "outside" after all!

 

[Dark Knight]

Naw. I always knew we were soulmates, deep down inside. :blowkiss:

You two are SO much closer than either one will ever admit.

 

[Pepper]

Obviously, we're going to have to agree to disagree. Calling it "hate speech" when the speaker is a disadvantaged minority only serves to disguise the very real damage of such speech directed AGAINST a disadvantaged minority.

But for the record, I know you aren't defending Imus' speech and I know it isn't the sort of speech you would use yourself.

I may be white, but I can tell you about discrimination. My husband has been turned down in countless jobs for which he has applied, even though he is by far the most qualified. He is a 64 year old white male, and currently the most discriminated group in the workplace. He has a MBA and over 30 years experience in his field, with rave reviews and letters of recommendation. So who is getting hired with less experience, less education, and fewer credentals? The young female candidate or the black candidate or the Hispanic candidate - and if the female happens to be black or Hispanic she trumps everyone. These are public sector jobs I'm talking about. The very ones that are supposed to be protected under The Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967. It's a joke.

 

[Nova]

Finally, you're seeing it my way. My racism argument was indeed simplistic, because...guess what...it's a simple concept. I don't exactly understand why you're trying to complicate things here.

Now I'm insulted. You're saying I have the intellect of a second grader. You obviously have a chip on your shoulder for those who don't agree with you.

You still haven't explained at all what different types of racism there is.

You needn't be insulted and I said no such thing. If I have a "chip on my shoulder," it's because I've actually been quite patient in explaining complex concepts only to be repaid with a schoolyard chant of "Racism is racism is racism is racism is racism."

In one, very simplistic sense--as I pointed out pages ago--yes, all racism shares a common denominator. But that sense is meaningless because it does nothing to help us understand how actual human beings function (much less become more tolerant), because it does nothing to determine which racist expressions need to be confronted and which are an expected response to racist oppression. (As I also said above, I'm sure some Jews hated all Germans in 1945. Who can blame them? How does it help to equate them with the KKK? These are the sort of questions you ignore.)

I never said there were different "types" of racism. I said racism matters greatly in some instances (when it is directed against the relatively powerless) and not so much in others (when it is a mere byproduct of oppression).

 

[Paladin]

I may be white, but I can tell you about discrimination. My husband has been turned down in countless jobs for which he has applied, even though he is by far the most qualified. He is a 64 year old white male, and currently the most discriminated group in the workplace. He has a MBA and over 30 years experience in his field, with rave reviews and letters of recommendation. So who is getting hired with less experience, less education, and fewer credentals? The young female candidate or the black candidate or the Hispanic candidate - and if the female happens to be black or Hispanic she trumps everyone. These are public sector jobs I'm talking about. The very ones that are supposed to be protected under The Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967. It's a joke.

I'm not sure it has so much to do with his age as it does the salary a person of such extraordinary qualifications might command.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I'm not sure it has so much to do with his age as it does the salary a person of such extraordinary qualifications might command.

That's what I was thinking as well. Or they had to meet quotas of minorities???????

 

[Pepper]

I'm not sure it has so much to do with his age as it does the salary a person of such extraordinary qualifications might command.

Hmmmm, no. These are public sector jobs and the salary is posted. Either the jobs are "wired" meaning already decided to an insider, or these agencies are afraid to turn down the younger person, female or minority, even though they may be less qualified, for fear of recriminations.

 

[Paladin]

You needn't be insulted and I said no such thing. If I have a "chip on my shoulder," it's because I've actually been quite patient in explaining complex concepts only to be repaid with a schoolyard chant of "Racism is racism is racism is racism is racism."

In one, very simplistic sense--as I pointed out pages ago--yes, all racism shares a common denominator. But that sense is meaningless because it does nothing to help us understand how actual human beings function (much less become more tolerant), because it does nothing to determine which racist expressions need to be confronted and which are an expected response to racist oppression. (As I also said above, I'm sure some Jews hated all Germans in 1945. Who can blame them? How does it help to equate them with the KKK? These are the sort of questions you ignore.)

I never said there were different "types" of racism. I said racism matters greatly in some instances (when it is directed against the relatively powerless) and not so much in others (when it is a mere byproduct of oppression).

Seriously, what's up with the schoolyard BS? It's what I believe. I'm not doing it to be an annoying prat.

Your example isn't doing anything to sway my opinion on this matter. I don't care what reasons blacks have for disliking whites, and vice versa. I get that there are varying reasons for racism, but damn...at the risk of sounding like a second grader or a schoolyard child...racism is racism.

If you want to agree to disagree, then please stop replying to my "childish" remarks because I was more than ready to give it up pages ago.

 

[Paladin]

Hmmmm, no. These are public sector jobs and the salary is posted. Either the jobs are "wired" meaning already decided to an insider, or these agencies are afraid to turn down the younger person, female or minority, even though they may be less qualified, for fear of recriminations.

They could also tell these people the truth...and let them know that they're not the most qualified candidate.

 

[Nova]

That's what I was thinking as well. Or they had to meet quotas of minorities???????

I am a white male who spent many years in academia. I do know about hiring preferences and on occasion they have worked to my detriment.

But the benefits of being a white male in our society are such that I have to figure they outweighed any disadvantage I faced. Throw in tall, blond and educated male and I really can't complain.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Seriously, what's up with the schoolyard BS? It's what I believe. I'm not doing it to be an annoying prat.

Your example isn't doing anything to sway my opinion on this matter. I don't care what reasons blacks have for disliking whites, and vice versa. I get that there are varying reasons for racism, but damn...at the risk of sounding like a second grader or a schoolyard child...racism is racism.

If you want to agree to disagree, then please stop replying to my "childish" remarks because I was more than ready to give it up pages ago.

I'm sorry Paladin, but Nova's posts are not any violation of the TOS. If you're having problems with the thread, may I suggest that you just take a break?

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I am a white male who spent many years in academia. I do know about hiring preferences and on occasion they have worked to my detriment.

But the benefits of being a white male in our society are such that I have to figure they outweighed any disadvantage I faced. Throw in tall, blond and educated male and I really can't complain.

I am in total agreement. White men with professional degrees are the enemy to a great many people.:truce:

 

[Nova]

Just because Paladin doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they are making cheap moral equivilances. Sometimes a simple answer shows the enlightenment brought about via reflection and study. Said in a few words rather than a few paragraphs of repetitive talking points. (Which you've accused me of more than a few times.) :snooty:

Yes, DK, some things are quite simple.

The history of race relations in this country is not one of them, however.

 

[Paladin]

I'm sorry Paladin, but Nova's posts are not any violation of the TOS. If you're having problems with the thread, may I suggest that you just take a break?

I'm fine, thank you.

 

[Nova]

Seriously, what's up with the schoolyard BS? It's what I believe. I'm not doing it to be an annoying prat.

Your example isn't doing anything to sway my opinion on this matter. I don't care what reasons blacks have for disliking whites, and vice versa. I get that there are varying reasons for racism, but damn...at the risk of sounding like a second grader or a schoolyard child...racism is racism.

If you want to agree to disagree, then please stop replying to my "childish" remarks because I was more than ready to give it up pages ago.

I forget the exact definition of "prat," Paladin, but I wasn't thinking you were that or anything else.

And I didn't expect to change your mind. I was just hoping you would respond to my points...

 

[Paladin]

I forget the exact definition of "prat," Paladin, but I wasn't thinking you were that or anything else.

And I didn't expect to change your mind. I was just hoping you would respond to my points...

"prat" is slang in the UK.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=prat

You make excellent points, but I don't think they really fit into what I'm talking about. Perhaps we're arguing two different things?

 

[Nova]

"prat" is slang in the UK.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=prat

You make excellent points, but I don't think they really fit into what I'm talking about. Perhaps we're arguing two different things?

I have heard it, but it wouldn't have occurred to me to call you names. Honestly, I wouldn't.

Maybe we are talking past one another. I've gotta run, but I look forward to chatting with you again, Pal.