Should Don Imus be fired?

[Nova]

That's exactly how I see it. What could they possibly call us that carries the weight that the "N" word does? Cracker? Honkey? LOL I mean seriously, I laugh hysterically when I hear those words. They simply can't call us anything that hurts to the degree and depth that the "N" word does.

Precisely, Jeana, well put. And not because "cracker" and "honky" don't have equivalent meanings to some, but because the racial context is simply incomparable.

 

[Nova]

Nova,

I'll let you have the last word here, but I did want to get back to the topic at hand.

I'm just trying to get a handle on what good everyone thinks will happen by Don Imus being fired. How will his removal help battle racism? I think it's a quick and easy solution that solves nothing in the grand scheme of things.

We're only teaching people to hide their racism rather than eliminating it.

Paladin, I don't need the last word, but thanks. I agree that "firing" is too harsh a penalty here, but not because Imus' remark wasn't terrible.

You seem to have a very precise meaning in mind for "racism." That's fine, but it isn't the only meaning of the word.

In the sense you seem to be using it, one can agree that all "racism" is the same. And all "hatred" is the same. And all "love" is the same. But, frankly, when you define terms so blandly, they become virtually meaningless.

Is all "racism" (in your sense) wrong? Sure. But there's still a huge gulf between, say, German "Final Solution" anti-Semitism of the early 1940s and the very understandable hatred of Germans that some of the Jews involved must have felt.

 

[Nova]

I am not 100% convinced that freedom of speech is a good thing.
I understand that in theory, it is our constitutional right, but when
it's hate speech where do we draw the line?
I saw his words as not only racist, but harmful to these young women's self esteem. I don't think he would have had the same take on the men's basketball team. There was a double standard in there as well. JMO

csds, I think this thread - and the current fuss in the culture at large - is a good example of free speech (i.e., a free marketplace of ideas) in action. If the Rutgers women were bothered by the initial remark, surely they have had a chance to recover now that so many have condemned that remark.

 

[Pepper]

Let ME repeat: no one here said either is "OK," but the contexts are very different. Why is that so hard to understand?

When African-Americans are a majority and have enslaved whites for 400 years, then we'll talk about how "all racism" is the same.

In the meantime, the difference is power. And why Bill Maher mocking the President (even if you think the satire is wrongheaded) is very different than wealthy Rush Limbaugh mocking a homeless man.

Jokes and derogatory remarks directed at the powerFUL is satire, a non-violent way of defusing a very real threat. Jokes and derogatory remarks directed at the relatively powerLESS is just, plain bullying, and that is cruel.

And while we're on the subject, why should I care that African-American rappers are allowed (in some social contexts) to say "" and I am not? I have no business using that word in any case, so how does the "double standard" hurt me?

I am against a double standard in any context. I think what Imus said is disgusting, and I am equally offended by the degradation of whites by many black rappers. It is hurtful, offensive, and serves no purpose other than to perpetuate divisiveness. No group is entitled to a "pass" on hate speech, no matter what their "history."

 

[Nova]

I am against a double standard in any context. I think what Imus said is disgusting, and I am equally offended by the degradation of whites by many black rappers. It is hurtful, offensive, and serves no purpose other than to perpetuate divisiveness. No group is entitled to a "pass" on hate speech, no matter what their "history."

Obviously, we're going to have to agree to disagree. Calling it "hate speech" when the speaker is a disadvantaged minority only serves to disguise the very real damage of such speech directed AGAINST a disadvantaged minority.

But for the record, I know you aren't defending Imus' speech and I know it isn't the sort of speech you would use yourself.

 

[Nova]

P.S. to Paladin: your advice to the Rutgers women to consider the source and "brush it off" is very good, personal advice. No doubt they will do just that.

But the issue of what is acceptable speech over public airways in a diverse society remains, even when the victims in this case do the wise thing and move on.

 

[opme]

But a lot of slaves sold by their own countrymen ended up sold in Europe. Maybe I am just uniformed but Europe does not seem to have the same problems???

I am not certain about that.. it may not be as prevalent as t is here but consider the size of the states as compared to an idividual european nation... I have family that reside in the UK and it is an issue there.. it may however not be as clearly defined as a black/white issue.. but there is a big intolerance of idividuals with middle eastern decent..at the moment. I do beleive that they struggle with it just as we do..

As far as Imus goes.. I am probably restating what has been said previously but I havent had a chance to read back thru all the comments.. He said some really awful stuff and it isnt the first time. He is only apologetic that his "humor/Skit" failed miserably. He is sorry he has gotten bad press and such a negative backlash.. but not truly sorry for the content of his statements. He is a man who " in humor" demeaned and delafalted the significant accomplishments of these women. You cant take that bnakc and to compound it with tagging it as humor and racist comtext just doesnt cut it. He is a public figure with a duty and responsibility to behave in a morally responsible manner.. this is not even close.

 

[eve]

csds, I think this thread - and the current fuss in the culture at large - is a good example of free speech (i.e., a free marketplace of ideas) in action. If the Rutgers women were bothered by the initial remark, surely they have had a chance to recover now that so many have condemned that remark.

I agree, Nova. Free speech is one of those things we take for granted. Everything is a question of "Whose ox is gored?" as I heard over and over in law school. If those "in power," and I mean that somewhat loosely to include those who have an audience, for example, advocate something, the opposite view can be repressed. Imagine a world of Hitler followers. If speech, no matter how vile and hateful, can be silenced on content alone, we are in trouble.

Fight the message, not the right to convey it!

Imus will suffer greatly and is, and probably should. I'm glad the network slapped his hands. But people calling for his firing (or worse) on this act alone are wrong. If he now loses his audience and is fired for that, so be it. Free marketplace. We don't need to be told what to "buy." Trust the natural consequences of commerce.

Eve

 

[opme]

I am against a double standard in any context. I think what Imus said is disgusting, and I am equally offended by the degradation of whites by many black rappers. It is hurtful, offensive, and serves no purpose other than to perpetuate divisiveness. No group is entitled to a "pass" on hate speech, no matter what their "history."

I am probably going to get flamed here but none the less.. I agree with you that there is a double standard. If its not ok for non blacks to use some of these terms its not ok for anyone to use them.. and the trerm racism cant be used to ecxlude to as a trump card anytime things get a little tough or seem at first glance to be unfair.. far too many times its used in the wrong context I have seen investigations within companies and unequal treatment when companies bend over backward due to the fear that choosing a more qualified canidate or detemrining who to terminate due to layoffs bend over backward to pretect the minorities because of fear of reprisal..

 

[Dark Knight]

Racism only comes in one flavor, my friend.

You're truly enlightened.

 

[Dark Knight]

Come on now. I bet not a single one of these girls listen to his show, and why exactly would their self-esteem be hurt by a crusty old fat like Don Imus? Have you seen him? He's in no position to cast stones.

I would have brushed off his comments like it were dirt.

Another great comment! He, like Trump, is the last person to be commenting on someone else's appearance, lol. Talk about bad hair!

 

[Nova]

Another great comment! He, like Trump, is the last person to be commenting on someone else's appearance, lol. Talk about bad hair!

Right, 'cause "appearance" is the point here.

I remember the good old days when "enlightenment" was reached through reflection and study, not through cheap moral equivalences.

 

[Paladin]

Right, 'cause "appearance" is the point here.

I remember the good old days when "enlightenment" was reached through reflection and study, not through cheap moral equivalences.

Man, how old ARE you?

I'd take offense to your comment but you don't know me...just like Imus doesn't know those girls. So I'll just brush it off.

 

[Nova]

Man, how old ARE you?

I'd take offense to your comment but you don't know me...just like Imus doesn't know those girls. So I'll just brush it off.

Older than 7. That ought to be old enough.

I don't pretend to know you and I wasn't purporting to "sum" you up, Paladin. I was only talking about this one aspect of this one issue. I agreed with you above in terms of your advice to the Rutgers women, and I have often agreed with you in the past. But the "racism is racism" argument is simplistic.

You may as well say "stealing is stealing," as second graders will do. Third graders should be expected to differentiate between a CEO who destroys thousands of lives by stealing millions from a pension plan and a desperate man who steals a loaf of bread because his children are starving.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Older than 7. That ought to be old enough.

I don't pretend to know you and I wasn't purporting to "sum" you up, Paladin. I was only talking about this one aspect of this one issue. I agreed with you above in terms of your advice to the Rutgers women, and I have often agreed with you in the past. But the "racism is racism" argument is simplistic.

You may as well say "stealing is stealing," as second graders will do. Third graders should be expected to differentiate between a CEO who destroys thousands of lives by stealing millions from a pension plan and a desperate man who steals a loaf of bread because his children are starving.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Does it scare you Nova, that I'm in total agreement with you this evening?

 

[Paladin]

Older than 7. That ought to be old enough.

I don't pretend to know you and I wasn't purporting to "sum" you up, Paladin. I was only talking about this one aspect of this one issue. I agreed with you above in terms of your advice to the Rutgers women, and I have often agreed with you in the past. But the "racism is racism" argument is simplistic.

You may as well say "stealing is stealing," as second graders will do. Third graders should be expected to differentiate between a CEO who destroys thousands of lives by stealing millions from a pension plan and a desperate man who steals a loaf of bread because his children are starving.

Finally, you're seeing it my way. My racism argument was indeed simplistic, because...guess what...it's a simple concept. I don't exactly understand why you're trying to complicate things here.

Now I'm insulted. You're saying I have the intellect of a second grader. You obviously have a chip on your shoulder for those who don't agree with you.

You still haven't explained at all what different types of racism there is.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Come on folks. You really don't want to see me lock up this thread, do you?????? Lets all try to act like we're over the age of 7 and keep it civil.

 

[Dark Knight]

Man, how old ARE you?

I'd take offense to your comment but you don't know me...just like Imus doesn't know those girls. So I'll just brush it off.

He only acts 7 sometimes in his 'arguements.' :crazy: Normally he's pretty astute, though. Just not in discussions of "majority" and "minority." At last Nova didn't call for his resignation, so kudos for that my friend!

 

[Dark Knight]

Come on folks. You really don't want to see me lock up this thread, do you?????? Lets all try to act like we're over the age of 7 and keep it civil.

What happened to sending "bad" threads to the Parking Lot like in the old days? That's what it was for. Now they get locked up or deleted. (Usually by you, hehe.)

 

[Nova]

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Does it scare you Nova, that I'm in total agreement with you this evening?

Naw. I always knew we were soulmates, deep down inside. :blowkiss: