SIDEBAR #27- Arias/Alexander forum

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #141
This is probably a dumb question. Do zookeepers ever touch or closely interact with giraffes?

I am not sure, although a few pages back someone posted a really neat Utube video of a giraffe birth and the zookeeper person stood away and just let the mother drop the baby by herself. I am sure at some point, a vet comes in to check the baby and Mom, but at least during the birth, they seem to just let nature take its course unless something bad happens.

We were told here that they are monitoring just like we are , so if something goes wrong, I am sure a vet would rush in.
 
  • #142
Cornell Law School has an online site where you can search for “scholarly articles” written by law professors on different subjects – I found several interesting ones re: mitigation factors in death penalty cases. Two had to do with what was found when a study was done with jurists that had served on capital cases about what did or did not influence them. Both articles agreed on 3 primary factors, one had the study’s tables showing results to various questions and these were by far the highest influencers. They also included suggestions for defense of these factors. Quoting some of it here ( my notes in red about how they might relate to this case or rebuttal if she presents them):

[/COLOR]
LinTx, do you have a link to that study? I'd really like to read it. If you are interested in learning more, try googling capital jury project. I found a paper that summarized the results of this project and it was quite interesting. The study you mention may in fact have been based off the findings of the CJP.

And yes, I do like to do the research and learn more about things. Last summer, when things were slow here on the sidebar we got nicknames. IIRC, YorN was the one who christened us with our names. I was Professor. :findinglink:
 
  • #143
I think it might be baby time????

either that I have no idea what the back end of a giraffe looks like?
 
  • #144
Niner, if I see she is close to giving birth (the sac is beginning to hang) I will post here ASAP . It will still take 1-3+ hours for the complete birth after the sac appears


Reminder of what Autumn looks like for identification. check for the CHA on her right side:

Don't forget the two dasiymae flowers on her left hip.




She had her son October 23 2012,
 
  • #145
Her front hooves, just briefly.
View attachment 57133

She's been swaying more today, I aven't seen her lady parts since the last time and at that time they were larger than yesterday, OK I just saw them she is bigger, and her belly is rounder low down.
 
  • #146
Cornell Law School has an online site where you can search for “scholarly articles” written by law professors on different subjects – I found several interesting ones re: mitigation factors in death penalty cases. Two had to do with what was found when a study was done with jurists that had served on capital cases about what did or did not influence them. Both articles agreed on 3 primary factors, one had the study’s tables showing results to various questions and these were by far the highest influencers. They also included suggestions for defense of these factors. Quoting some of it here ( my notes in red about how they might relate to this case or rebuttal if she presents them):

Some of the ‘strategies’:
#1 How bad, or Vileness of crime. "However, jurors do view a crime as less vile-and less deserving of death when a victim's own actions at the time of the crime put him or her at risk, or in some other way were morally blameworthy." Her claim that it was Travis’ gun and he came after her first. His psychological abuse led her to snap and she wasn’t in control of her actions. Chris & Sky Hughes will be asked about their email to Travis about his ‘abuse’ of her. "Finally, perceptions of vileness are clearly influenced by beliefs that the defendant acted in a premeditated way, and decreased by beliefs that the defendant was "crazy" or was mentally impaired " Premeditation was found but she may still argue it, because any question in the jury’s minds about her guilt or actions is another factor mentioned in this study – they can be there but were just not enough to overcome aggravators in guilt phase, but could still influence mitigation. Her defense is to show she was driven into this ‘fog’ murder, as a victim of his abuse and more specifically on that day by his physical aggression towards her.

#2 How dangerous. "Jurors are also more likely to impose a sentence of death when they believe that the defendant will not actually remain in prison his whole life; indeed, the shorter their estimation of the time the defendant will be incarcerated prior to release should they not sentence him to death, the more likely they are to sentence him to death. That is, jurors may not really prefer to execute the defendant, but they prefer his execution to his continued threat to the safety of the community"
“Now here is some good news, because in most jurisdictions, a capital defendant not sentenced to death will be imprisoned for life, and even in the rare jurisdiction where he will eventually be released, his release will be significantly later than jurors believe it will be. So the truth will, if not set the capital defendant free, at least increase the likelihood that he will live. Repetition of the truth of incarceration for life-as well as its incorporation into jury instructions-matters. Witnesses should be encouraged to explicitly refer to the alternative of life imprisonment without the possibility of parole, and lawyers should train themselves to use the entire phrase whenever speaking of the decision before the jury.”JM already argued that this statement by the defense in closing last time was not accurate and the jury should know the possibility is there, if parole is reinstated. Defense may be less obvious in their closing this time, but will try to insinuate it instead?
“An expert on adaptability to confinement (who often can also provide the testimony on the security of the state's prisons) can disabuse the jury of the belief that behavior on the outside predicts behavior on the inside, and substitute a more accurate (and generally more favorable) assessment of likely behavior while incarcerated based upon prior behavior while incarcerated, or in some cases, while in a mental institution, or even in the army” This is the reason they may call that prison expert – to testify how she will be controlled in prison, and to testify that her record in jail has been good (expect to see her infractions explained away as non-violent and nothing to worry about?)Also may be another way to insinuate that parole will never happen and she'll be in for life.

#3 Remorse They do mention that bringing up remorse in the penalty trial is not a good idea. Jurists generally don’t believe it’s real unless it was presented earlier in the trial and hopefully by someone else testifying to her statements of remorse prior to arrest. They also mention that if defendant didn’t readily confess, or tried to lie, remorse is hard for a jury to accept. Also, her statement in that interview that no one has any reason to fear her, unless they abuse her (or whatever she said), also shows she does not show remorse – she thinks he deserved it!

Thanks LinTX for the info- very interesting. I think #2 is important- at least to me- don't know what the jurors will think.

I went to the Cornell law site and found the scholarly articles but couldn't access them.

"Note: The above hyperlinks are provided for the convenience of users who are current subscribers to these commercial databases. HeinOnline is available free of charge to the entire Cornell University community. LEXIS and WESTLAW are available through subscription only. Whenever possible, hyperlinks to non-fee based services that contain the published and final version of each article are made available."

http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/research/death-penalty-project/articles.cfm

I would like to read the whole article as I have been researching mitigation.

I have this article in my docs folder:

How Capital Jurors Respond to Mitigating Evidence of Defendant's Mental Illness, Retardation, and Situational Impairments: An Analysis of the Legal and Social Science Literature:

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1967649
 
  • #147
Ok now I feel really stupid. I went back to settings and then to safari and right smack in the center of the page was a box to clear cookies. So did it! Hope it. Works. Thank you. Now if I can use all the tricks on these posts to fix my hard drive, I will owe you guys forever! The only thing that didn't seem to work was pressing home key twice. It just sat there.

Happy about that! I sent you you a PM with detailed instructions on the "press home key twice" to clear apps . That will be #1 of my list
(the instructions came from an iPad 1 help site
http://www.ipadforums.net/threads/d...re-often-than-it-used-to.121763/#post-1062503
 
  • #148
LinTx, do you have a link to that study? I'd really like to read it. If you are interested in learning more, try googling capital jury project. I found a paper that summarized the results of this project and it was quite interesting. The study you mention may in fact have been based off the findings of the CJP.

And yes, I do like to do the research and learn more about things. Last summer, when things were slow here on the sidebar we got nicknames. IIRC, YorN was the one who christened us with our names. I was Professor. :findinglink:
There were two articles and one definitely used the CJP, and the other mentions it along with other studies. The two articles I used are here:

http://scholarship.law.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1346&context=facpub
and
http://scholarship.law.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1171&context=facpub

eta: YESorNo, I don't subscribe to any of those. Hopefully the above links will get you in...
 
  • #149
Hi professor- you're back. Glad to see you. :seeya:
 
  • #150
Is he/she born?
Hi YorNo, I don't think its born yet. I am on Johnnys computer, mine died today.
I hope she has it soon. I have the addy on mine which is completely dead at this
time. Nore
 
  • #151
There were two articles and one definitely used the CJP, and the other mentions it along with other studies. The two articles I used are here:

http://scholarship.law.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1346&context=facpub
and
http://scholarship.law.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1171&context=facpub

eta: YESorNo, I don't subscribe to any of those. Hopefully the above links will get you in...

Thanks- I'll be reading those articles (I love research and reading). I found the whole of the scholarly papers here:

http://scholarship.law.cornell.edu/...172&utm_medium=PDF&utm_campaign=PDFCoverPages
 
  • #152
Baby warning !!!

Something is coming !!!

Its either that or I am seeing things again.....LOL

Wait till she swings her tail way out of the way and see if you think its on its way.
 
  • #153
Hi I am on my grt.grandsons computer. Mine died today. I donated also, was thinking of a
name. If I find my way back to her page, I will also vote for DaisyMae, spell it different.
I am hoping my comp. didn't go blue or wont cost an arm and a leg..
 
  • #154
I am keeping watch on Mama too, and have already been fooled more than once by a shadow or something. I stared for a long time last night at what I thought was the sack appearing only to see much later it was only a section of the flooring showing between her back legs! I'll probably miss it, but I keep checking on her...I did finally see the daisy today though.
 
  • #155
Baby warning !!!

Something is coming !!!

Its either that or I am seeing things again.....LOL

Wait till she swings her tail way out of the way and see if you think its on its way.

And how did you spend your day today?

Oh, looking up a giraffe's butt on the internet.

LOL.
 
  • #156
Probably what I thought was labor was her needing to poop.
 
  • #157
Wish there was some way we could get an alert when she's having birth. Like when we are on verdict watch and a verdict has been announced. Oh well.
 
  • #158
And how did you spend your day today?

Oh, looking up a giraffe's butt on the internet.

LOL.

I know. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Its actually very fascinating as I never got to see a live animal birth of any kind. Even human.

LOL

I have seen taped human births on TV but it is so exciting that this is happening live.
 
  • #159
I feel sorry that Autumn has to sleep with the lights on. It's not a natural environnment for a zoo animal, and seems inhumane. Then I thought about another person we are all familiar with at Estrella Jail. Does she have to sleep all night , hopefully, with the bright lights on?
 
  • #160
Anyway, it looks like she is hiding again and this may take awhile. But I do think she is pretty close now. When you get a good view when she moves her tail, it sure looked like something was happeing down there. LOL

The dark area was about the size of a small plate now which was much larger than I saw yesterday. It may just be swollen parts, but I could have sworn something is happening. LOL

I may be able to check back later. Bye for now.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
116
Guests online
2,062
Total visitors
2,178

Forum statistics

Threads
632,825
Messages
18,632,294
Members
243,307
Latest member
Lordfrazer
Back
Top