SIDEBAR #57 - Travis Alexander forum

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Morning all! :wave:

Watching my Niners!! vs. Cleveland Browns... :cheer:

Dmacky said:
Niner
I am devastated to know that your "huz" is not doing well. Please know that I am sending you love and prayers from Kentucky...(can't make myself abbreviate my own darn state anymore because of the murderer) Also, I agree that your loyalty lies with your husband. I do very much understand how you feel[/I] that your huz does care for his nephews and they should be kept in loop. However, this was a decision your huz came to on his own. Believe me, IF he is terminal (which we all pray he's not) and you do tell his nephew's, you will have to live with the knowledge that you broke that promise to him and it will haunt you. I know this first hand.


:tyou: Dmacky for your love and prayers!! I know what you mean by NOT abbreviating your home State! :lol:
Not breaking my Huz' decision NOT to tell anyone... :luv:
And DO come back and post with us!! :grouphug:

Okay - just a couple of "notes" from reading last night. I'm not going to do what our YESorNO is doing with his book - just once in awhile notes from it! :D

From Chapter 12 (pg. 85) titled: "My initial review of the Evidence Related to the Relationship"
Rare of not, the State wanted to kill my client because she had killed her lover.

I REALLY hate it when he says Travis was her lover... he wasn't at the time of his killing... :mad:

From Chapter 15 (pg. 83) titled: "The Emails and Other Online Communications"

The most important chats from my perspective took place in May of 2008. I see these chats as the most important between the two because it is during these chats that Mr. Alexander refers to Ms. Arias as a "🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬," a "🤬🤬🤬🤬," a "three whole wonder" and a "corrupted carcass".

Hope4More - have you come across these chats yet? I don't think I've read these chats, or you haven't seen them yet?? :waitasec: TIA!

Oh and if you're wondering why Chapter 12 is on page 85, and Chapter 15 says page 83 - it looks like the page #s (at least in the book I'm reading) screws up after Chapter 13, which is page 89, next is Section 3, which says page 71... :thinking:

RAINING!!!!!! :happydance:

Okay - going to read and watch my NINERS!!!!

:seeya:
 
Renée Fleming Sings "Song to the Moon" from Rusalka

[video=youtube;1tImMZLfHaE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tImMZLfHaE[/video]

Silver moon upon the deep dark sky,
Through the vast night pierce your rays.
This sleeping world you wander by,
Smiling on man's homes and ways.
Oh moon ere past you glide, tell me,
Tell me, oh where does my loved one bide?
Oh moon ere past you glide, tell me
Tell me, oh where does my loved one bide?
Tell him, oh tell him, my silver moon,
Mine are the arms that shall hold him,
That between waking and sleeping he may
Think of the love that enfolds him,
May between waking and sleeping
Think of the love that enfolds him.
Light his path far away, light his path,
Tell him, oh tell him who does for him stay!
Human soul, should it dream of me, Let my memory wakened be.
Moon, moon, oh do not wane, do not wane,
Moon, oh moon, do not wane....
 
Hey!

Boy - you were busy while I was posting YESorNO!!

YESorNO said:
Ding-Dong: The Delivery Scam That's Coming to Your Front Door

"Beware of strangers bearing gifts — according to the Better Business Bureau, scammers are putting a new and brazen spin on the skimming scheme this season.

In this scam, targets receive a call from a delivery company saying a package is on the way. Right on cue, a delivery man arrives with a gift basket sans card. (Some make an excuse, saying the card is being delivered separately.) Before the delivery man leaves, he asks the target to pay a nominal “verification fee” in order to receive the basket. Alternately, she’ll need to provide a debit or credit card in order to verify she’s of legal drinking age, as there’s wine in the basket. The delivery man plugs the info into a handheld scanner and — ta-da! — the scam is complete..."

Unless I ordered something, I would NEVER give anyone coming to my door and asking for my Debit OR Credit card... that wouldn't go over with me! Besides, I don't drink!

:gaah: lost my "Thanks" button...

YESorNO said:
Possessed by a mask
Every human culture has used masks for ritual disinhibition, shaming and play. Is being online the ultimate masquerade?

Oh, Oh!! Picture of my Mamma and my Sister at Christmas time...
 

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Trapped with Ms. Arias

Section 10

How Was I Going to Save Ms. Arias' Life?


in Chap 49- L explains why I was still interested in saving the murderer's life (even tho' he didn't like her)

in Chap 50- L's plan to save her life

in Chap 51- "the last few moments of peace...before the trial began"
===============================================

Chapter 49

Why Did I Fight For Ms. Arias Life?


L will address why he thinks DP was not appropriate for the murderer

"I truly believed that Ms. Arias did not deserve to be killed for her crime"

- "something more specific than" his belief about the DP, which he opposes- "willing to do what it took, within the bounds of my ethical duties, those ethical duties I have as a lawyer, to prevent this from happening" (pg. 285)

but, 1st issue: "relates to Mr. Alexander and those who love him......

"I do not want anyone to think that by asserting my opinion that the death penalty was not an appropriate sanction for Ms. Arias that I somehow minimizing the killing of Mr. Alexander, his personal loss of life, or his suffering that his death caused his family and loved ones....the killing of Mr. Alexander was a horrible tragedy and those who cared about him, particularly his family have my sympathy for their loss"
(pg. 285-286)

2nd issue:

L "realizes" many people might think that the murderer "should not" be sentenced to die "inconceivable"- they might think "that anyone who feels to the contrary must be either insane or they must be in love with Ms. Arias (perhaps both)"

L states that many people "who do not like" the murderer "who do not support what she did...still believe that she should not have been sentenced to death for her crime.. many ..share my general opposition to the" DP "others might not share my firm opposition....also believe that " the murderer "should not be sentenced to death"

why L feels that the murderer didn't deserve DP: (2 things)

1--in his mind- she "did not meet the criteria for what a death penalty case should be....I saw inequity in the penalty that" the murderer "was facing and the penalty being sought out against others who had committed similar if not more horrific acts"

L states on "not meeting criteria"- DP case not typical case- "the worst of the worst"- if every murder eligible for DP "the death sentence becomes cruel and unusual punishment"

L explains "atypical murder"- eg. several victims and victim is child- the murderer's murdering TA not "fit the parameters..the murderer's crime and her personal history did not make her the worst of the worst"

2-- "the issue of disparity"- gives eg: (trials taking place same time murderer's case)

-man stabbed wife- about 27X- drove body to police station- turned himself in- man was not charged with 1st degree, but with 2nd degree- he pleaded guilty

- another about to be tried in Maricopa Co- Jerice Hunter- accused of killing her 5 yr old daughter Jhessye Shockley- beat the child, forced her to live in closet- little food- after she died- dumped her in landfill- when charged with murder, claimed someone kidnapped child and/or was missing...huge public search took place...marches- State charge 1st degree murder, but not DP "Why? I do not know"

L states that those who research DP would say review social science research

"That research would tell me that Ms. Arias was facing the death penalty and Ms. Hunter was not because of the fact that Ms. Arias killed a white male and Ms. Hunter killed a black girl" (pg. 288)

same research- man who killed wife, stabbed her 27X, didn't face death "because he killed a woman"

L states that (according to research) "who the defendant kills is the most prominent correlating factor that determines whether prosecutors seek the death penalty..it is not who is as a person or their history but who they killed:

"Those most likely to face a death sentence are those who kill white males...the inherent racism of the death penalty provided an explanation for this disparity...my opinion was that this had little if anything to do with race and more to do with the notoriety that surrounded the case"
(pg. 289)

L's opinion- that media attention already paid to case, "motivated" State to seek DP for the murderer

L states that if DP not sought, attention to case wouldn've been that much- failure to obtain DP would "be a huge public failure...public embarrassment for the prosecutor and could result in a decrease in the value of the prosecutor's potential book deal. I was of the opinion that once death was sought against Ms. Arias, unfair and improper tactics might very well be used against Ms. Arias so as to avoid such an embarrassment" (pg. 289)

"In this, I saw injustice...I'm not going to let Ms. Arias receive an unjust sentence of death, period...because a prosecutor, any prosecutor wanted fame or adulation...or allow a prosecutor to send a client, any client of mine, to death row when they didn't deserve to be there "

"In this regard, it did not matter to me that the way I had to do this would not reflect well on me. It did not matter that i did not like Ms. Arias. It did not matter that I did not believe everything Ms. Arias was saying only that she didn't deserve to be on death row. This belief would serve as my rock, my foundation. when the world, including Ms. Arias herself was against me."
(pg. 289)
=================================

Chapter 50

What Was My Plan?


Fall, 2012- L "collected and digested all the evidence from the case....had a theory...what happened June 4, 2008 and why it happened...had fairly good idea... what the State was going to argue....a virtual certainty that Ms. Arias would be convicted of First degree Murder ...that it would be unjust if my client were to wind up on death row.." (pg. 290)

L needed a plan "How was I going to save the life of my self-destructive client....whose goal seemed to have nothing to do with her future or her life and everything to do with vilifying Mr. Alexander?"

L states that if he had "complete control" and could have " 'designed' " defense, "it would have been much different"- the murderer would not have "told the stories she told about " TA..."In fact, she really would have no story to tell.. [she] would have sat silent during trial..never taken the stand....would not be in a position to make any accusations against Mr. Alexander"

L states that he would argue facts that demonstrated- killing done with no "significant or any premeditation"- that murderer was really guilty of second degree murder or manslaughter (argument he explained in Chapter 47)

"My argument would have been based on the idea that even if she had arrived at Mr. Alexander's home with the intent on killing him this intent went away when she saw him and that her intent to kill did not come to life again until moments before she actually killed him, hence the argument for second degree murder or manslaughter" Work? - he did not know - all he had to work with

L states that he felt the jury would have been more "open to the argument" if the murderer didn't make "the accusations she made against" TA

if the murderer was convicted of 1st degree murder, at the sentencing part, his argue the murderer's lack of criminal history, "dynamics of the relationship" with TA

L states that he thought that his "tactics" would save the murderer's life

but the murderer had "her own agenda"- he had to "play by those rules...had to figure out how to save her life despite the story she was going to tell"

L explains:

- lawyer cannot stop client from testifying- 6th amendment- client could testify "to anything they want and.... their lawyer cannot stop them...when a lawyer knows a client is perjuring themselves" lawyer can "withdraw from the case"- requests are usually denied

"However, when this happens a defendant usually testifies in the form of a narrative and the attorney resumes representation after the client's testimony is complete. However, the one important caveat to this is that in order to have a basis to withdraw, the attorney must know that the client is perjuring himself or herself.... the lawyer cannot merely suspect that their client might be lying. Doubt about the truthfulness of the testimony is also not enough. Instead what is required is that the attorney must actually know via objective evidence that the client is perjuring himself or herself." (pg. 282)

L gives hypothetical:

-"Frank.. is accused of armed robbery..holding up liquor store..wants to take stand ...say that at time of robbery, he was out of town visiting his mom at the nursing home..Mr. Brown (atty) uncovers a cell phone video given to him by one of Frank's friends...video shows Frank outside..liquor store wearing the same clothes described by..store manager who was held at gunpoint...video is date and time stamped....video recorded 5 minutes before the robbery"

-Frank's atty can "move to withdraw" because Frank wants to lie on stand- if atty didn't have cell phone video and just felt that client "was lying because Frank had a history of lying he could not withdraw. Under those circumstances "atty "...would..be required to help Frank tell his story because he had no proof that it was not true" (pg. 282-283)

- another story:

- this time "Frank" is charged 1st degree murder- State seeking DP

- he killed his uncle who was "popular person in town..loved him..outraged surrounded his murder"

- Frank tells his atty that he did kill his uncle and he molested Frank as a child- he never told anyone

-Frank saw uncle talking to young boy at store and was enraged- grabbed gun and shot him

- Frank says "I would do it again because I wanted to make sure he never touched another little boy like he touched me"

-atty has obligation to search for evidence, even if he didn't believe his client

"...let us say that" atty "finds no evidence whatsoever related to Frank's accusation....as time goes on" atty's "disbelief grows" but " has no actual proof that Frank is lying. A lawyer in " his "position has to aid his client in telling his story....particularly true in a capital case"- if he doesn't, reversal of death sentence "would be virtually automatic"

"The accusations that Ms. Arias wanted to level against Mr. Alexander was completely irrelevant as it related to the job I had to perform. Even if I thought these accusations amounted to nothing more than lies designed to assault Mr. Alexander's good name, I had no choice but to pursue any evidence related to them."

L states that he "was duty bound...to find any support for her claims and allow her to testify....I could not disprove them with actual evidence that proved these claims to be false...you [may] think these accusations are lies or perhaps it is more accurate to say that you 'know' that they are lies but the reality is there is no proof that these accusations were actually untruthful....your so-called knowledge is just your opinion.." (pg. 284)

L claims he had " some evidence supporting her claims":

-he had 2 experts tell him that she had "symptoms related to PTSD

-he had 2 domestic violence experts tell him that she was a victim of domestic violence during relationship wth TA

-he had "emails from the Hughes to TA about how he abused women"

-there were "the comments from the Hughes made to Detective Flores about how they could see Mr. Alexander being physical with Ms. Arias"

-there were the sex tapes

"Now those of you who want to call me all sorts of names for supposedly calling Mr. Alexander a pedophile, something I never done, may not like facing a reminder of this particular fact."

L wants us to remember that TA reference 12 yr old girl having her 1st orgasm, "corking the pot" of 12 yr old girl during convo with the murderer

"...how do I save my client's life, knowing that I have, in essence, assist her in making these assertions against" TA? "her assertations will turn the whole jury against her [and me]?"

L stated he had to come up with strategy "that would result in a life sentence...even if the jury and the entire world would wind up hating us both" (pg. 285)

L had a plan that "might me look like a bad lawyer on worldwide television"

L states that plan worked- "I have not yet received a thank you card from Ms. Arias or her family...[or] an apology from any of my critics in the media..I'm not holding my breath.."

L states that he knew experts testifying relied, "at least in part", on what the murderer told them. "I suspected that these opinions would not be received well....knew that Ms. Arias was going to take the stand and gleefully make these accusations against" TA

L stated that that he had 2 options:

-"dive right into the fray merge whatever strategy I arrived at with Ms. Arias' claims..hope for the best"- didn't believe it would "lead to a life sentence"

-"alternative...do something unorthodox that might just save Ms. Arias' life"

The alternative: "to run as far away from her story as I could while still presenting the viable aspects of her story to the jury...in terms if most of the witnesses...meant letting them present what Ms. Arias told them and the conclusions that they made from testing her or whatever means they used...letting the jury absorb the idea that there was at least some merit to Ms. Arias' assertations that she suffered from symptoms of trauma and that she was a victim of domestic violence without fully embracing her claims that Mr. Alexander had a sexual interest in children" ( pg. 288)

L states "the plan"- to let Willmott handle witnesses "as thought these claims were the key to the case when I thought otherwise..." the murderer's story "would be embraced to some degree and I would be free to work on saving Ms. Arias' life"

L was to direct the murderer's testimony- to "make sure it was done right..consistent with my plan to run away from her story as much as possible at the same time she was telling it...to let Ms. Arias articulate her defense while at the same time slipping in some facts about the relationship that Ms. Arias shared with Mr. Alexander that was undeniable..I thought that this process would provide the jury to either make some sort of connection with Ms. Arias or provide them with the opportunity to see she is not right in the head" and " would be enough to cause at least one juror to spare Ms. Arias' life"

L states it "is harder to kill someone with whom one is familiar with [but] might lead to contempt" risk he would have to take

another aspect of "plan"- that JM would cross examine the murderer "very aggressively"- the jury would feel sympathy for her

"risky" plan- not good for his "personal reputation"- had to keep what he was doing to himself- thought it was the "only way" the murderer "was going to 'get out of this alive'...turned out that gamble paid off for her.....this would come at great personal cost to the good reputation I had built over the years....okay with me because it is not the lawyer's job to put their reputation above their client's life...will talk more about implementing this strategy in my next book " (pg.288)

L "speculates about the questions you might have"

-- "..what were the inevitable truths that I felt I needed to get out of Ms. Arias in order to employ my strategy while she was trying to advance her agenda? "

-sex-

"an undeniable truth that" TA and the murderer " had an intense relationship..some call..kinky...[or] perverse..[or] normal but I don't see how anyone could quibble with the idea that it was intense...sex focal point...having all kinds of sex behind closed doors...unless Mr. Alexander truly loved Ms. Arias, he was using her for sex" the murderer "was his 'booty call'. Even Sky Hughes referred to Ms. Arias in this manner"

"..in my mind, it was the an undeniable reality that whether Mr. Alexander loved Ms. Arias or hated her he was never going to commit to her, however, as evidenced by his actions, he was more than happy to have sex with her"

"Why was this important to show this undeniable reality in court?"- if the murderer "failed to make a connection with her jury"- would be harder for jury to kill a woman.....had no prior criminal history...."characterized" as woman who fell in love with someone "using her for sex than" someone who was "obsessed former girlfriend that could not let the victim go" (pg. 288)

that was his "plan in a nutshell"

L states that "those who support" the murderer- upset- the plan did not prove the murderer " 'innocent' , something that could never be done...those who support Mr. Alexander believe this involved 'dragging him through the mud' "

"However, face it, no matter what kind of horrible 🤬🤬🤬🤬 you want to make Ms Arias out to be, Mr. Alexander was still having sex with her....undeniable reality of this case, like it or not and it was at the heart of my strategy, a strategy that worked and a strategy for which I will offer no apologies" (pg.289)
==========================================================================

Chapter 51

New Year's Day


L talks about New Year's Day when he was younger...in 1970's college football games..only 3 major networks ..."all good games went all day long"- he was a "kid who loved football...was an awesome day"

"As a kid who loved his grandfather who himself loved football it was extra-awesome because we watched these games together, all day. Simply put, New Year's Day was one of the best days of the year for me as a child" (pg. 300)

L laments- now several college bowl games- are spread out- take place mid-December to mid-January..."not all good ones take place on New Year's Day"- now dozens of sports channels- hockey now- he still loves New Year's Day tho'- he spends much time watching football- thinks of his grandfather every New Year's Day

L states that he is telling all this to us because:

"...I can give you a sense of what it was like for me as I braced myself for the trial..New Year's Day ..2013...wanted to embrace the day without concern for the next day" but "could not do that.... 'Trapped with Ms. Arias' "

- while watching game "I could not help to think about the impending storm that would hit my life the next day...did not want to be part of, but had no choice. The best I could do.... was to allow Jennifer to do the opening so that I could cling to these last moments of peace that always comes to me while watching football on New Year's Day"
L thought about following New Year's Day without having to be concerned with the murderer's case "or her self-destructive ways


" ...guess I was wrong about that one, but in fairness to me, I do not think anyone could have guessed that things would go the way they did. Heck if I had known...after January 2, 3013, I might have driven to the airport instead of the courthouse....flown to a country that didn't extradite runaway lawyers back to the United States. Instead, on January 2, 2013, I drove toward the courthouse, parked my car and took one last breath" (pg. 301)
=========================================================

Coming in 2016

Trapped with Ms. Arias Part 11

"From Trial To Mistrial"


"January, 2013..beautiful winter's day in Arizona....scene outside the courthouse....several people, many reporters and other s who would be best described as groupies who want to be part of the show, and what a show it turned out to be..lived streamed to the world...capture the attention of millions.. to me, The State v. Jodi Arias, was more than a show, it was a trial, a serious trial where a person's life was at stake"

in L's next book he will tell what it was like for him to "live through this trial..share my thoughts with you and let you in on the things you did not see on television"
==================================================================

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Hi all, :wave: is anyone else getting rain? We've had over six inches since yesterday so part of our back yard and our boat dock are under water about a foot :scared: I was keeping a close eye on my fur baby when he was out earlier, I was afraid he'd get into the edge of the water and get washed away or something. He's so cautious though, he was staying way away from it and just sat there marveling at it from a distance, LOL.

Y/N, I've never seen the opera Rusalka, but I love that song, "Song to the Moon", what beautiful music. And that's such a sweet story about that puppy Peter and the Alzheimers man. Dogs are so awesome :loveyou:

Niner, what a cute photo of your mother and sister, you must have a fun family. :happydance: Enjoy the game, Go Niners!!!
 
If you can't have the fireplace you love, love the one you have ;)


Good evening, lovely SB friends!
You've been sharing your beautiful Christmas decorations and trees, so here is my little corner:
View attachment 85712

My mom bought this little tree for me on a Christmas market close to her small village. First I thought it's quite kitsch, then I thought it's actually so lovely that she thinks of me and I discovered that it's beautifully glittering when I put it close to a candle. A wonderful way to feel close to her...
And recently I was very angry with myself as I was all the time thinking: If only I had a fireplace...
Finally I decided to just "build" one with the means I have ;)
The crackling sound of the fire is very relaxing and as I love the smell of cedar wood, I burn some cedar incense and that's how I find myself in a magic christmas mood.
Life can be so easy!

Edit: Hmm, why is there the link and not the pic itself? What did I make wrong?
 
This is such a bummer! Just when i became totally hooked on looking forward to YorN's updates. Can't believe it's over. :(

But thank you for all your hard work. Please know it was much appreciated. :)
 
I've been trying to catch up with my SB reading and am just checking back in today to my home base. I have purposely not posted, as I've not been in a good place and you guys must be sick and tired of my petty woes and my Debbie Downer posts. I know I am.
I am saddened to read that there is so much heartache amongst our members.


Sending love, hope, and healing prayers to ~
Daisymae, Nore, msJosie, and Mr. Nore

I hope I didn't leave anyone out.

SBM

DMACKY, we can take anything you want to dish out here. I never tire of my friends sharing their troubles. Good or bad, we can listen well. Sending you the softest, kindest friend-hug, dear friend. I hope you are able to get out of your low spot soon. :hug:



Hey!

Boy - you were busy while I was posting YESorNO!!



Unless I ordered something, I would NEVER give anyone coming to my door and asking for my Debit OR Credit card... that wouldn't go over with me! Besides, I don't drink!

:gaah: lost my "Thanks" button...



Oh, Oh!! Picture of my Mamma and my Sister at Christmas time...

What a fun pic to see!!
 
Question, my sisters great nephew on her husbands side has gone missing. He has some mental issues but I don't think anyone cared enough about him to get him help. His mom died when he was thirteen and lived with his grandparents, who again didn't do much for him. His grandmother died five years ago and he continued to live with his grandfather (my brother in law's brother). He worked at a Walmart doing the shopping carts, but got fired because he smelled so bad and wouldn't take baths, anyway some group ? organisational? trade school? took him in. he joined and it was up in Oklahoma and you could not leave the place for a year. No family visits either. So, real place or a cult?

That sounds scary to me, BendPages, I wonder what the name of the place is and if they have a website or anything that is Googleable.

ETA: Also, I'm wondering about the not bathing thing, do you know if he's been diagnosed with Schizophrenia or anything?

ETA: I love that Alphabet song, btw. :happydance:
 
SBM

DMACKY, we can take anything you want to dish out here. I never tire of my friends sharing their troubles. Good or bad, we can listen well. Sending you the softest, kindest friend-hug, dear friend. I hope you are able to get out of your low spot soon. :hug:



I concur.

DMACKY, just to let you know, it always does my heart good when I see that you've posted something here. And even if I don't put it in words very often; I think of you, worry about you, care about you, and hope for the best for you and your family.

Please continue to be a presence here, and know that you are cherished. :)
 
One of the only things I agree with Nurmi is about the order of wounds. I still believe the gunshot came first. Does anyone remember if there was a bath towel in the washer along with the sheets?
 
One of the only things I agree with Nurmi is about the order of wounds. I still believe the gunshot came first. Does anyone remember if there was a bath towel in the washer along with the sheets?


While I don't have a clear memory regarding the evidence, I also tend to believe the shot came first. After all, she stole her grandpa's gun. Don't think she premeditated stabbing (although, with the tire slashings, she was apparently pretty good with knives).

Not sure why Martinez went with "shot came last," except for that bullet casing in the blood. Plus, Dr. Horn's testimony was compelling.

The other thing is that if the shot came first, that would mean the murderer was telling the truth, and that -- right there -- is hard to believe.
 
One of the only things I agree with Nurmi is about the order of wounds. I still believe the gunshot came first. Does anyone remember if there was a bath towel in the washer along with the sheets?

I do remeber a bleached out towel being heId
up by a female crime
technician at trial.
 
Definitely not Peace Corps or Vista: those are Federal programs and they're very competitive to get accepted into. They accept high achievers.

Just had a thought: depending how old he is (older than 25 a definite no), he could be in a government-funded civilian conservation corps type program. I believe these come under Americorps. These are groups of young people, typically <25, that live in the woods together and work hard outdoors all day. Typically, this is about trail building, fixing backcountry bridges, picking up trash.... They are fed, but I'm betting this means they share kitchen chores and fix group dinners on camp stoves.

Many of these young people are "lost souls". Many are a "mess." I often see how they develop over a year, and they become confident, enjoy each other, get protective of doing the right thing and abiding by the law, acquire social skills, are very committed to preserving wilderness...They are very pleased with themselves.

These young people get so tired, they pretty much fall into bed at night. They become extremely physically fit (heck, they work with shovels and axes all day). The turnaround is very impressive. I believe these programs last a year.

I don't think they restrict family access (maybe he invented that part because he wanted to be left alone?), but there might be just no time....Plus, some of these groups move around a lot (they live in tents), some are housed in old camps.

They will rarely be in cell phone range. They may not want them to use cell phones at all because for a kid on the edge this might be an invitation to trouble (🤬🤬🤬🤬 sites, drug stuff....).

They do not come to town often. When they do, they come in a group.

They may not like corps members to leave because they can get into trouble again and they would be abandoning their job commitment. The whole team will be needed to complete the scheduled tasks.

This is a serious, well-organized, and disciplined program. It is NOT boot camp. This is not a jail sentence: you have to apply and get selected. You are learning from other members of the team, not just a leader.

These young people get a small stipend. This is pocket money, since they have no real expenses. They spend it on stuff like good headlamps so they can see well at night. (I've seen them make group decisions on which kind one or other member should buy, CUTE!) I believe they are provided with appropriate backwoods clothing and gear, but may have to buy a few supplementary items to make life more comfortable. All the necessaries are provided.

I have often been thankful for the work these young people are doing. I thank them every time I see them. It's too bad the number of kids they can take on is extremely limited.

If your in-law relative is in a modern-day conservation corps program, he is extremely lucky, IMO.


He wasn't twenty five yet, but yeah he was a lost soul. His grandfather kicked him out with no where to go. No close family that cared enough to help him. So, he might of met up with a group like that. IIRC there was something about learning trades, plumbing ,electrical. We're trying to remember the name of the town this place was close to.
 
Hey again! (can't seem to stay away from this thread! :giggle: )

Hi all, :wave: is anyone else getting rain? We've had over six inches since yesterday so part of our back yard and our boat dock are under water about a foot :scared: I was keeping a close eye on my fur baby when he was out earlier, I was afraid he'd get into the edge of the water and get washed away or something. He's so cautious though, he was staying way away from it and just sat there marveling at it from a distance, LOL.

Y/N, I've never seen the opera Rusalka, but I love that song, "Song to the Moon", what beautiful music. And that's such a sweet story about that puppy Peter and the Alzheimers man. Dogs are so awesome :loveyou:

Niner, what a cute photo of your mother and sister, you must have a fun family. :happydance: Enjoy the game, Go Niners!!!

Raising my hand on the rain! YES! :happydance: We got an 1" 1/8" the other day, and today's rain - so far - is 1 inch! And it's snowing about 5 miles up the hill! :snowball:

If you can't have the fireplace you love, love the one you have ;)


Good evening, lovely SB friends!
You've been sharing your beautiful Christmas decorations and trees, so here is my little corner:
View attachment 85712

My mom bought this little tree for me on a Christmas market close to her small village. First I thought it's quite kitsch, then I thought it's actually so lovely that she thinks of me and I discovered that it's beautifully glittering when I put it close to a candle. A wonderful way to feel close to her...
And recently I was very angry with myself as I was all the time thinking: If only I had a fireplace...
Finally I decided to just "build" one with the means I have ;)
The crackling sound of the fire is very relaxing and as I love the smell of cedar wood, I burn some cedar incense and that's how I find myself in a magic christmas mood.
Life can be so easy!


Edit: Hmm, why is there the link and not the pic itself? What did I make wrong?

Yes, life can be so easy - I too don't have a fireplace and your plan sounds good! I'll try it! :christmastree:
And I can't see you picture, but it says "Attachment 85712" - ??

This is such a bummer! Just when i became totally hooked on looking forward to YorN's updates. Can't believe it's over. :(

But thank you for all your hard work. Please know it was much appreciated. :)

Yes - YESorNO!! :yourock: VERY much appreciated that you took your time to post these for us! :luv:

While I don't have a clear memory regarding the evidence, I also tend to believe the shot came first. After all, she stole her grandpa's gun. Don't think she premeditated stabbing (although, with the tire slashings, she was apparently pretty good with knives).

Not sure why Martinez went with "shot came last," except for that bullet casing in the blood. Plus, Dr. Horn's testimony was compelling.

The other thing is that if the shot came first, that would mean the murderer was telling the truth, and that -- right there -- is hard to believe.

I believe the shot came last, as the bullet casing was sitting on top of the blood.

Here's another picture from the same Christmas with my Brother and Sister. And YES! we had a VERY fun family!! Whenever Latvians visited the Los Angeles area, they always knew where to go! My parents loved throwing parties! And my Mamma loved to cook for everyone! We had some GREAT parties! How I missed those times... :sigh: BUT I have a LOT of good memories! :luv:

Signing off for the night! Take care everyone! And have a nice and quiet evening!

:wave:
 

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Niner, your party pics have really brought smiles and happy memories of childhood family parties we had.

(anyone else notice the rabbit ear antenna in Niner's pic? We had those.... and a funny whirly automatic one came later)
 
This is such a bummer! Just when i became totally hooked on looking forward to YorN's updates. Can't believe it's over. :(

But thank you for all your hard work. Please know it was much appreciated. :)


Thank you very much indeed, Y/N, and for taking the time to post your excerpts in that other thread as well..:D

Reading and choosing and typing up the excerpts had to be very time consuming. Thanks both for that precious time and for saving many of us from having to suffer through 300 plus pages of jumbled drony Nurmi, and from having to pay for the privilege.

Hugs...
 
While I don't have a clear memory regarding the evidence, I also tend to believe the shot came first. After all, she stole her grandpa's gun. Don't think she premeditated stabbing (although, with the tire slashings, she was apparently pretty good with knives).

Not sure why Martinez went with "shot came last," except for that bullet casing in the blood. Plus, Dr. Horn's testimony was compelling.

The other thing is that if the shot came first, that would mean the murderer was telling the truth, and that -- right there -- is hard to believe.

She could in fact have shot first......and then had the gun jam (or maybe she was shaking too much, or something). She picked it up again later in desperation: this time it worked.
 
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