SIDEBAR #6- Arias/Alexander forum

[InALandFarFarAway]

Good point.

CMja, for all her roundtheworld sex and bravado, has this naïveté that CA lacked. CA was smart but she knew she wasn't smarter than the prosecutor and that her story wouldn't hang together for 5 minutes.

But everything CMja knows about life has come from a tv show or movie.

Clearly, before that statement to the jury, she'd just watched some feel good prison movie on Lifetime with the plucky heroine sent to prison who soon wins the hearts of the hardened inmates by drafting their motions, teaching them to read and occasionally taking the blame for something stupid one of the inmates did which leads to an instant bond that lasts forever.

 

[Garlandy]

SBM

I 100% wholly, completely categorically, unequivocally do not believe TA abused his murderer mentally and/or emotionally. I would bet my mother on it, I'm that convinced.

The convicted murderer has BPD with psychopathy. Without ratting myself out here, I know the type like the back of my hand. Believe me when I tell you that it is possible to push someone/manipulate a person to the point of madness. TA's responses were the direct result of her outrageous behavior and not first blood drawn by him. They were REACTIONS to her never ending of emotionally manipulative, high schooler garbage. Death by a 1000 cuts, first mentally, then physically.

The DT took a handful of texts out of 80,000+ communications and hoped someone would drink the kool-aid. The foreman fell for it hook, line and sinker. He was buried by an avalanche of duplicitous snow made exponentially more embarrassing by the bravado he showed during post-verdict interviews.

Parts of your post could have come right out of my mouth (sadly).. I so hear you and agree 100 %.

 

[DebinGA]

IIRC AZ law describes the 1st degree murder as committed in an "especially cruel, heinous, or in a depraved manner".... Did JSS only okay the "especially cruel" facet? I think it was all three, but only heard JM speak of the cruelty.

 

[AuburnSchnauzer]

I concur! I believe that was the plan.

That and all of her comments about him being so big and strong ...that was version 1.0 when she wasn't there talking to Dect Flores. She was deliberately pointing toward more than one attacker. IMO


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I have some fog but it is my own dam fog! IIRC, you were one of the first people here to say that.

 

[Garlandy]

It's still bent in that photograph. A trick of lighting makes it appear straight to an untrained eye, but look closely at the shadows and you'll see that it's bent.

Jodi wouldn't be so stupid to fake something like this. Too much of an effort and easily impeachable.

I don't know - she's pretty stupid...

 

[ElleElle]

Isn't he the one that sent to confusing note to JSS? If so, trouble stirrer here.

Sorry for the delay in posting this reply, but I have been away for several hours.

This first part below in quotations is my original post from 5:15 that Wishbone is commenting about (above).

"I have owned my own business for years and at one point had a staff of just under 50. Hiring people was the most important thing I did and over the years I could tell pretty quickly who was trustworthy and who wasn't. No, I haven't met the foreman in person, but it didn't take too long for me to not trust this guy. (all due respect)"



The reason I said I didn't trust the jury foreman is because he said when he was brought into the jury originally that he could vote for the DP if it was warranted. Then he goes on to say after the trial that he shouldn't have to decide whether someone lives or dies. Ok so maybe he changed his mind during the trial or perhaps during the deliberations. Imho (and I stress this is my opinion based only on my life experience of hiring many, many people) if he did indeed change his mind and he wasn't able to make a decision if someone should live or die...then he should have bowed out. He was going back on what he said he could do - thus to me that is not a trustworthy thing to do. Even though I want the DP for CMJA I would have respected the foreman if he would have given her life. Wishbone you said because he voted for what he believed it doesn't make him dishonest. What makes him dishonest is saying he was able to determine life or death and when he realized he couldn't he should have spoken up and told the judge. Continuing to be a part of the jury knowing that to me is not right, he should have told JSS. The judge is the boss, not him, it would have been up to her to decide how to handle the situation.

Just to take it a step further I could mention many examples of why I feel this way, but I will just give one. Years ago I hired a secretary....interviewed her, asked her if she could answer phone calls, type reports, and so forth. She agreed that she would do all those things. I believed her and trusted that she would do the jobs I hired her to do. After a short time on the job she didn't fulfill any of her duties that she signed up for leaving me in a real mess. I lost trust in her because I hired her based on what she told me and what she filled in on her application.

The last thing I want to say is again - if this foreman would have talked to the judge she may have brought in one of the alternates and who knows just maybe now the Alexander's, all the lawyers, the judge and so many other people wouldn't be in this predicament. Not to mention the millions of dollars more this will cost the state of Arizona. I don't get the feeling he realizes the ramifications and how serious it is to say you could do a certain thing and then not keep your end of the bargain. And it is not because he didn't choose the DP. It concerns me gravely and it makes it even more disturbing that it is the foreman that is saying the things he is. I am very anxious to hear from other jurors and also to find out how much actual control a jury foreman has.

 

[Linda7NJ]

It's still bent in that photograph. A trick of lighting makes it appear straight to an untrained eye, but look closely at the shadows and you'll see that it's bent.

Jodi wouldn't be so stupid to fake something like this. Too much of an effort and easily impeachable.

Travis did jack up that finger! No doubt about that in my mind. He had the nerve to get that knife all slippery by getting his blood all over it.

.,,what's a girl to do?


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[mck16]

BBM

Associates of Travis who were there that night back up her story about their first meeting. After that, I don't know...

I only heard them confirm that they met there not the circumstances of their meeting. Do you have any links that describe exactly how they met? ty

 

[Karmady]

:rocker:

Jodi Arias Defense Lawyer Kirk Nurmi Says He Doesn't Like Jodi 9 Days out of 10 (Closing Argument) - YouTube

I watched it and I'm not seein' any Juan love. Time stamp?

 

[Linda7NJ]

Good night folks!



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[Ammonitida]

Disgusting Jodi supporter blog run by a "white knight" who has a boner for Jodi.

http://justiceforjodi.blogspot.com/

Give him your "support".

 

[fruity]

I'm copying this over from the KCL thread.

This is a very inaccurate first draft, so be gentle with me.

I've started making a juror descriptions post so that it can be copied over to the "Jurors Speak Out" thread when it is opened. If you have anything else to add, please copy the post instead of quoting it so that we don't lose content.

I know I'm missing a lot, and other information is muddled.

I've taken the juror descriptions from Katiecoolady's post about the HLN producer's observations. I hope you don't mind, KCL.

Can someone please switch the information about the foreman around? Apparently #18 is not Barb, it is William Zervakos, the foreman. I'm not sure if the foreman is the person listed as #2, 4 or 9?

Was Barb (Carol Gosselink) #10?

Also, Tara Kelley identified herself as Juror #17 (an alternate). I can't remember who the other alternates are, but was 'headphones' one?

So far we have heard from Tara Kelley, Bill Zervakos, Carol Gosselink and Daniel Gibb. I think I'm missing someone. Meliha Omanovic said she would speak out after the trial finishes.

Please only take information that has been freely given by the jurors and is available on MSM. Please do not sleuth or google private information about the jurors.

Juror No. 1 - Church Lady

She is a white female in her 60s and sits closest to the witness stand. She doesn't look at Arias often during her testimony. People in the gallery observed her yawning once during an emotional part of Arias' testimony.

Juror No. 2 - Trump

He is a white male in his 50s. He takes few notes and usually has his head cupped in his hands as he listens to testimony.

Juror No. 3 - Housewife

She is a white female in her 40s. She takes a lot of notes and often watches prosecutor Juan Martinez as he moves around the courtroom. She has been seen submitting questions.

Juror No. 4 - Grandpa

He is a white male in his 60s, and he takes few notes.

Juror No. 5 - tri color
Dismissed. Identified herself as 38 year old Meliha Omanovic.

She is a married, white female in her 30s. She sits on the edge of her seat and is the most visible juror from the gallery because she has a “unique hair style.”

Juror No. 6 - Nancy Reagan

She is a white female in her 60s and is also seen taking many notes.

Juror No. 7 - Paul Rudd

He is a white male in his 30s, and he is married. He takes notes and often bites his nails.

Juror No. 8 - CEO
Dismissed. Identified himself as 52 year old Daniel Gibb.

He is a white male in his 50s and is married. He also takes notes and has been observed submitting questions.

Juror No. 9 - Willie Nelson

He is a white male in his 60s. He wears denim on most days and sits at the end of the jury box. He sits close to the first row of the gallery where Alexander's family sits.

Juror No. 10 - The Artist

He is a white male in his 70s and is married. He has a tattoo on his right arm. He rarely is seen taking notes. He sits the furthest away from the witness.

Juror No. 11 - Ponytail
Alternate Juror, identified herself as Tara Kelley

She is a married, white female in her 30s. She takes a lot of notes. She does not look at Arias during testimony. She tends to look straight ahead or down at her notes.

Juror No. 12 - Maureen

She is a white female in her 40s and also takes lots of notes. She swiveled her chair toward Arias during her testimony.

Juror No. 13 - headphones

He is a white male in his late 60s to early 70s. He wears an audio-enhancing headset provided by the court. He does takes notes.

Juror No. 14 - CPA

He is a white male in his early 60s who often swivels in his chair. He does not appear to be taking notes.

Juror No. 15 - Wrestler

He is a white male in his late 20s or early 30s. He appears to be the youngest member of the jury and takes very few notes. He smiled when Martinez asked Arias if she could predict the future.

Juror No. 16 - Neil

He is a white male in his 40s.

Juror No. 17 - Poquito Mas
Dismissed

He is a Hispanic male in his late 20s to early 30s. He dresses casually and sometimes slouches so far down in his chair that he is hardly visible to the gallery. He does not appear to be taking notes.

Juror No. 18 - Barb
Alternate Juror. Identified herself as Carol Gosselink

She is a white female in her 40s. She is an occasional note taker and she often looks at the gallery during sidebars.

 

[kkdj]

From the get-go i also felt the gun/knife combo was purposeful to make it look like two killers. I think she did her best to lead LE in that direction, and when it failed, she came up with the 2 ninja story to fit the evidence she herself had manufactured.
And when that failed, she changed her story again.
Just waiting to see what story she will come up with for an appeal. (Can just hear it now, "Bombshell tonite, Jodi presents new evidence to support her new claim to the appellate court!"):banghead:

Yup! Jodi is going to come out of her fognesia! Mark my words!!!
And it will be a goodie!!!
Imo

 

[MidwestMama]

CMja, for all her roundtheworld sex and bravado, has this naïveté that CA lacked. CA was smart but she knew she wasn't smarter than the prosecutor and that her story wouldn't hang together for 5 minutes.

But everything CMja knows about life has come from a tv show or movie.

Clearly, before that statement to the jury, she'd just watched some feel good prison movie on Lifetime with the plucky heroine sent to prison who soon wins the hearts of the hardened inmates by drafting their motions, teaching them to read and occasionally taking the blame for something stupid one of the inmates did which leads to an instant bond that lasts forever.

BBM
:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:
OMG! Do you write for TV Guide?

 

[aa9511]

Camille Kimball has a good write-up on the jury foreman.

http://www.camillekimball.blogspot.com/

Like most of his fellow jurors, Zervakos resembled a statue most of the time during testimony. But one day I tweeted to my followers that I saw a juror nodding in agreement with a witness. I can now disclose that the juror I watched nod his head positively in concurrence with a witness was number 18, William Zervakis. It came when one of the trial's psychologists was saying that what happens to us as children, especially abuse, shapes who we become as adults.


He did it in a most definite way, not just one vague dip of the chin but a clear series of nods to several statements from the stand. My twittles were instantly panicked, engaging with my tweet, feeling it meant he "bought" the defense theory that Travis was abusive to Jodi.

That's quoted from the blog mentioned above, Camille Kimball.

That explains everything. He must think in his mind that Travis was some kind of monster. What I think, is that this guy, by his own admission, walked in and saw the little Jodi sitting there, and it didn't "wash", so he went through the trial picking reasons to BACK UP HIS INITIAL GUT FEELING. Oh, Travis was abused as child...oh THAT EXPLAINS IT. Oh, Travis said some mean words to Jodi, oh THAT EXPLAINS IT. Oh, Travis had sexual fantasies, oh THAT EXPLAINS IT.

This is exactly what Juror 18 was doing. NOT keeping an "open mind" like he claims...actually the opposite. He was picking and choosing, picking and choosing, ANYTHING TO TAKE THE BLAME OFF THIS LITTLE SWEET PURTY GIRL.

 

[Karmady]

IIRC AZ law describes the 1st degree murder as committed in an "especially cruel, heinous, or in a depraved manner".... Did JSS only okay the "especially cruel" facet? I think it was all three, but only heard JM speak of the cruelty.

especially cruel is separately defined from heinous/depraved, etc. Especially cruel focuses on the pain and suffering of the victim, not the nature of the crime.

 

[GetSmart]

Nurmi worked really hard to inflame the jury on the sex angle...as far as I know... It was probably so boring no one even mentioned it came up in the jury room.

I couldn't one afternoon after their lunch break... I lost count at 28... time that Nurmi said anal.
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I was wondering if keep repeating and repeating was to de-sensitive or what ever the word is sorry its late ... anyway thinking if jury kept hearing it over and over it would not seem so shocking ...

 

[seguek9]

Can a mod please contact me? Not an emergency ...but would like to talk...
not sure who is on duty tonight...
thanks....

 

[AuburnSchnauzer]

Just a thought I had - In closing, I wish Juan could have told the jurors that CMA is asking you for mercy to save her life, and can you imagine how many times Travis Alexander begged her for mercy while she was stabbing him slowly, torturing him? How many times did Travis beg her to call 9-1-1 and stop with the torture?

 

[ElleElle]

Travis did not know what he was knee deep in with Jodi. He thought he could trust Jodi, and somehow she betrayed his trust and he saw her true colors.

Travis was not perfect, as no one else is. He was mean to her at times, but Jodi kept coming back and taking control of the situation by manipulating him into sex.

imo, they treated each other like objects - disposable.

SBM

I 100% wholly, completely categorically, unequivocally do not believe TA abused his murderer mentally and/or emotionally. I would bet my mother on it, I'm that convinced.

The convicted murderer has BPD with psychopathy. Without ratting myself out here, I know the type like the back of my hand. Believe me when I tell you that it is possible to push someone/manipulate a person to the point of madness. TA's responses were the direct result of her outrageous behavior and not first blood drawn by him. They were REACTIONS to her never ending of emotionally manipulative, high schooler garbage. Death by a 1000 cuts, first mentally, then physically.

The DT took a handful of texts out of 80,000+ communications and hoped someone would drink the kool-aid. The foreman fell for it hook, line and sinker. He was buried by an avalanche of duplicitous snow made exponentially more embarrassing by the bravado he showed during post-verdict interviews.