SIDEBAR #8- Arias/Alexander forum

[Jane Jetson]

Tara also says she believes that Travis called her all those names to try and get rid of her once and for all.

 

[elementary]

I would not call your screaming FU at your mother--an emotional abuser--abusive. If fact, I'm glad you expressed your outrage at her.

As for the rest of your post--thank you, KPinMN, for respectfully stating your position--but I feel quite finished with the various "he was just angry" arguments. I have outlined many of my reasons for not accepting that position (not the "just" part of it, anyway), as I see a very, very different picture, gathered from testimony, including ALV's (hot button) and his own writings on the internet (another hot button), that includes frequent and devastating verbal and emotional abuse.

And, I'm actually not so much concerned with the story of Jodi and Travis, per se, but with how the dialogue about verbal/emotional abuse is unfolding here, in these discussion threads. I'm hearing attitudes that anger me, and that also frighten me, because I'm not sure about how representative they are in the larger political/social sense, and how aligned they are with pro-death penalty, anti-rehabilitation, and (arguably) pro-torture predilections. These predilections are almost foreign to me, so it's no surprise that there's much tomato tossing going on both ways!

Well, maybe this just isn't the place to air one's minority/unpopular opinions and arguments for an extended period of time ...

I'm guessing this is the opinion of someone fiercely and politically anti-DP? Maybe this is not the place for that.

I really haven't thought about DP much, being from Canada. But I do know when someone should be permanently removed for the sake of life, and the convict fits that. Makes me wish the DP was still alive in Canada because there are scary people being released on parole after a relatively small period of time, like Karla Homolka. I would have liked to have seen her dead, too. Especially because she had no compunction to help sexually torture and murder her very own baby sister.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Comments need to be placed in context, IMO. They certainly were said in anger. Abuse suggests an ongoing pattern. Show me the pattern.

We don't have it ... we only have a few of the communications between them. But I don't think there is any point assuming that if Travis spoke to JA this way then that is acceptable because it's not really. Very likely she did provoke him .. Travis does not have to be a saint to be a victim, because nobody is.

I wonder why there was so little of their communication entered into trial too, perhaps because it would be bad for BOTH sides.

 

[Jane Jetson]

Some probably may not know this is from a "twinterview" that's going on now with WildaboutTrial. Here's another tidbit from Tara: She thinks Jodi wanted to be the last one to ever have sex with Travis. Sounds about right!

 

[katydid23]

Comments need to be placed in context, IMO. They certainly were said in anger. Abuse suggests an ongoing pattern. Show me the pattern.

I think that is where the age thing came into play. My parents would see those comments as ABUSIVE, no matter what the context was. They would consider it a very ugly abusive action to call a woman names like that, repeatedly.

I however, being younger and having kids in their 20's, know that kids these days speak like that to each other. They use 'ho' and b---tch and skunk in everyday conversations. [ ha. autocorrect did not want me to say '.'

I do find it surprising that they thought her childhood was abusive though. A wooden spoon? My grandma had a HUGE wooden spoon in the kitchen that her kids gave her as a joke, but in response to her habit of punishing them with a quick whack to their backsides. They were not abused, they were being 'corrected' as she called it. And it is that same Irish Grandma who called me 'Katydid.' :heartbeat:

 

[elementary]

Can you believe that this chick [elementary:the convict] thinks she is capable of writing books? Talk about your plot holes.

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

I really needed the laugh! Thanks!

 

[Jane Jetson]

Tara wanted to believe that Jodi had some redeeming qualities, but after hearing her lie so much on the stand, it was hard to believe she did!

From WildaboutTrials's "twinterview," going on now at http://wildabouttrial.com/wat-courtroom.html. Sorry if I'm doing this wrong - I just want to give you the latest, if anyone's interested.

 

[Tenaciousdae]

I would love to see the phone records for the day of the email/text that Travis sent to Jodi that was "abusive". I would venture a guess that Jodi called him several times in between those "abusive" moments and said things to him that we will never know about. The thing with Jodi, and ones like her, is that she is crafty and sneaky. She would NOT leave evidence of her words that led to Travis having had enough. But she would make sure that there was evidence of Travis' words to her. I would also venture a guess and say that Travis attempted to call her to tell her those things and she refused to answer the phone so that he would send her a written account of his "hateful, abusive" words to her.

I firmly 100% believe that Jodi most definitely instigated a response from Travis that she would later try to use against him.

MOO

Probably a silly question to ask at this point, but is there a full report of the phone/text records? Or has it been redacted beyond making any sense of it?

I've just been so curious to see how quickly cmja responded, or actually incited these messages... TIA :seeya:

 

[Jane Jetson]

http://wildabouttrial.com/wat-courtroom.html

The fact that Jodi's parents weren't shocked that she triple murdered Travis, as we saw on their interview tapes, make Tara think the tapes would have been a "game changer"!

 

[TXProfessional]

The following question was just posed to Tara on WAT:

Is there anything that your have heard or seen since trial has ended that stands out to you as a game changer?

Tara's answer:

I think those parent interrogation videos could have been a game changer! Shows they weren't shocked she did it

 

[aa9511]

At this moment I'm so thankful that the jury got it right in the death verdict for the piece of slime that bought, raped and murdered Shaniya Davis. I will forever remember the photo of the murdering rapist holding this tiny little girl at the elevator at the hotel where he raped her. Jury took 39 minutes to come back with a death sentence.

http://fayobserver.com/articles/2013/05/29/1260002?sac=fo.local

TEARS. And he had the nerve to walk out of the courtroom talking back to the judge!

Why can't the defense lawyers EVER acknowledge the pain and suffering of the victim's family? I mean, would it have hurt his client so bad if the lawyer had just said, I'm sorry for the pain of the family. ....And then talked about how the judge didn't let them present mitigation. I mean, just to have acknowledged the little girl. That's so sad that the defense lawyers always feel like it's so bad to acknowledge's someone's pain, after everything is already over and the verdicts have been given.

 

[Jane Jetson]

http://wildabouttrial.com/wat-courtroom.html

Tara believed Nurmi when he said he didn't like Jodi 90% of the time. She says there was never any interaction between them at the table.

 

[kscornfed]

Crime of passion cases are usually second degree murder. It just means the crime wasn't premeditated but there was still malice and intent to kill.

I thought Harris was convicted of second degree murder.

Usually a manslaughter conviction isn't listed as a murder since there was no intent to kill or there was some type of provocation that caused the death.

Anyway, the Harris case is much much different than the Arias case which was totally premeditated.

IMO

it was manslaughter. she just got turned down for early release, so she has another 2 years before she can try again. her sentence was 20 years.

 

[polleypockets]

Tara Kelley ‏@tarakelley320 1m

@WildAboutTrial I believed it! There was never interaction b/w him and Jodi at the table! He never looked happy by her #17WAT
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Wild About Trial Wild About Trial ‏@WildAboutTrial 2m

@tarakelley320 What did u think of Kirk Nurmi when he said "9 days out of 10 I don't like Jodi Arias" #17WAT

 

[TXProfessional]

WAT twinterview

Question:
Did you think Alyce's analysis of domestic abuse applied to Jodi?

Answer:
no! I feel she is an advocate and truly believed Jodi was abused! However there was NO proof only her word

 

[Jane Jetson]

http://wildabouttrial.com/wat-courtroom.html

Tara believes that Alyce was truly a DV advocate, but that there was only Jodi's word that she was abused.

 

[TotallyObsessed]

Wendy Murphy has an astute, incisive commentary on the ethics of this:

http://wendymurphylaw.com/jodi-hannibal-lecter-arias/

Excellent, excellent article. I usually don't like to watch WM on TV as she comes across as a man-hater (just MOO)....but this article hits the nail on the head.

WOW just WOW:

Quote:

By Arias telling the media she wanted to die, the defense had a convenient reason to file a motion to withdraw on the grounds of irremediable conflict. “We have to withdraw from the case, Your Honor, because she wants to die and we want to fight for her life.” It was a cool trick because if the motion had been granted, it would have caused a very long delay in the death penalty decision as new attorneys got up to speed on the evidence and were given time to prepare for the sentencing hearing. Arias clearly did not want to die but she used the media as a pulpit to create the fact pattern the defense needed to try and delay the jury’s verdict. All lawyers know that the longer the time period between the guilty verdict and the announcement of punishment, the more likely a jury will vote for life rather than death.

Despite the ploy, the judge not only quickly denied the motion to withdraw, she did so rather glibly, no doubt aware that she was watching a tactical maneuver as opposed to a sincere effort to protect Arias’ rights. (An observation born out by the fact that only days later, Arias put on a slideshow for the jury that she used to beg for her life; a presentation that clearly had been in the works for a while.)

 

[RR0004]

Tara wanted to believe that Jodi had some redeeming qualities, but after hearing her lie so much on the stand, it was hard to believe she did!

From WildaboutTrials's "twinterview," going on now at http://wildabouttrial.com/wat-courtroom.html. Sorry if I'm doing this wrong - I just want to give you the latest, if anyone's interested.

Thank you very much!! It's really hard to follow and I appreciate you posting the info.

 

[TXProfessional]

Question:
What was the most damning piece of evidence against Jodi?

Answer:
wow that's a hard one!! Probably the camera! Showed a timeline of how quickly things happened!

 

[Jane Jetson]

Tara Kelley ‏@tarakelley320 1m

@WildAboutTrial I believed it! There was never interaction b/w him and Jodi at the table! He never looked happy by her #17WAT
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Wild About Trial Wild About Trial ‏@WildAboutTrial 2m

@tarakelley320 What did u think of Kirk Nurmi when he said "9 days out of 10 I don't like Jodi Arias" #17WAT

Thanks, Polley! I tried posting like that, but it just gave the main link. :blushing: