Sidebar Discussion #3

[beach]

I have never heard of this one - can you post more information on the book for those that want to either order (and wait and wait and wait! Still haven't gotten Jeff's book even though I ordered through "you know who"!).............yet I can perhaps do through library if I know name of book / author? TIA

I moved zippity's post and opened a [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155275"]new thread here[/ame].

I included a link in my first post (about the 3rd one down, I think.)

 

[flipflop53]

Is there a hearing tomorrow Nov 22nd?

 

[jojomonkey]

ok who is the Boston guy? Is he the same guy they always referred to as the one who "died in an accident" ? I thought he was ruled out due to timing.

Yeah, that's the one. Duggan I think is the last name. I had to look it up real quick to jog my memory. I don't know that he was ruled out. First time I saw his pic, I thought the resemblance was something - the ears, Caylee has his exact ears.

I do not think they are going to be successful getting DNA testing. I would imagine his family would have to request it and pay for it. Being that they are both deceased, the DNA would be more difficult and therefore more expensive. It would be nice for some benefactor to help the family out, but I don't think they have any other evidence besides what he supposedly told his mother. It's not compelling enough to order testing I don't think. I wish the mother would provide family photos and her son's baby pictures for comparison though.

 

[GiantPickle]

theres pics of one dude that are crazy similar

 

[jojomonkey]

theres pics of one dude that are crazy similar

If you google Michael Duggan, there is a side-by-side of him and Caylee. Their ears are EXACTLY the same, no question about that. There is a strong resemblance, even the mouth. I really wish him mom would release his childhood/baby photos for comparison.

 

[logicalgirl]

Yeah, that's the one. Duggan I think is the last name. I had to look it up real quick to jog my memory. I don't know that he was ruled out. First time I saw his pic, I thought the resemblance was something - the ears, Caylee has his exact ears.

I do not think they are going to be successful getting DNA testing. I would imagine his family would have to request it and pay for it. Being that they are both deceased, the DNA would be more difficult and therefore more expensive. It would be nice for some benefactor to help the family out, but I don't think they have any other evidence besides what he supposedly told his mother. It's not compelling enough to order testing I don't think. I wish the mother would provide family photos and her son's baby pictures for comparison though.

If he died in a car accident - wouldn't there be some blood tests of some kind around in an accident report? Or was he DOA? If he was driving - someone may have checked for drugs or alcohol. In an autopsy?

 

[logicalgirl]

I was just thinking - you know - after reading all of the comments about Jeff's book and watching all the interviews...

I sort of stepped back for a moment and was truly in awe of what a perfect situation this was for OCA.

We know she is the most prolific liar Jeff has ever come across or heard of.
And what a perfect situation OCA was - not only could she dream up any possible lie her evil brain could think of - she had a team of lawyers backing up every one of those lies for three years. And lawyers who called it winning! What a perfect storm for her. Amazing! :furious:

This is some world we live in!

 

[GiantPickle]

thats not the guy i was thinking of....."my" guy had spikey hair

 

[GiantPickle]

jp chatt is who i was thinking of....

 

[RR0004]

Yeah, that's the one. Duggan I think is the last name. I had to look it up real quick to jog my memory. I don't know that he was ruled out. First time I saw his pic, I thought the resemblance was something - the ears, Caylee has his exact ears.

I do not think they are going to be successful getting DNA testing. I would imagine his family would have to request it and pay for it. Being that they are both deceased, the DNA would be more difficult and therefore more expensive. It would be nice for some benefactor to help the family out, but I don't think they have any other evidence besides what he supposedly told his mother. It's not compelling enough to order testing I don't think. I wish the mother would provide family photos and her son's baby pictures for comparison though.

Didn't this info come out more recently? The mom came forward, right?

 

[Justin Tyme]

Please bare with me a sec...My heart is heavy and I need to unload. I sometimes wonder what the Anthony's think of now that it's over, I mean, other than how to make money to live off of. Their granddaughter is forever gone. Their reputations are forever tarnished. Their relationship with OCA is forever altered. Life will never be the same for them regardless, all the while OCA is living high off the hog without a care in the world. The one person that should have been held accountable is living better than they ever will. How many people would trust them in a job situation now? If you ask me OCA has not lost anything, she has gained her world, her freedom from her child and from her parents and has found her oyster. As much distrust as I have for CA and yes sometimes GA I feel that they are the ones who have lost everything. The family unit severed, the lost of their granddaughter, their daughter who they both know that they can't trust who put them in the situation to start with. The loss of their reputations. The loss of their jobs and sometimes their health. Yes, they brought some of it on themselves, but who started the ball rolling? One thing that boggles me I think is how is it acceptable for CA to want OCA to be held accountable for stealing money but not be accountable for her own child? But then again I think, she really didn't hold OCA accountable for that either in the past as she always covered OCA by paying off the thefts herself. Then I go back to one of the first jail tapes when OCA asked CA, "What am I supposed to learn from this?" I would like to ask CA the same question. "What was OCA supposed to learn from her arrest? What do you think that she did learn? That she could make up stories and lie about her father and brother molesting her and get away with it? That she could lie to LE and just have to pay with a few years time and a few thousand dollar fines and a year probation? That she could lie and have others help her to distribute the lies about a made up nanny and tarnish ZG's reputation all the while she knew that her daughter laid in a trash strewn swamp down the road from her own home? That her Mother would take care of whatever problems she left in the car afterward to be cleaned up? That her Mother would lie in the court of law for her. How can one single person take so many people down and then she come out on top? I just don't get it. Mind you, I'm speaking of OCA not CA. We all know how pretty much of the public that followed the case feel, but what about the attorneys and Judges that followed the case? Are they sitting back like us and are they asking, what happened? How can this be? I'm still asking: HOW CAN THIS BE?

 

[logicalgirl]

Please bare with me a sec...My heart is heavy and I need to unload. I sometimes wonder what the Anthony's think of now that it's over, I mean, other than how to make money to live off of. Their granddaughter is forever gone. Their reputations are forever tarnished. Their relationship with OCA is forever altered. Life will never be the same for them regardless, all the while OCA is living high off the hog without a care in the world. The one person that should have been held accountable is living better than they ever will. How many people would trust them in a job situation now? If you ask me OCA has not lost anything, she has gained her world, her freedom from her child and from her parents and has found her oyster. As much distrust as I have for CA and yes sometimes GA I feel that they are the ones who have lost everything. The family unit severed, the lost of their granddaughter, their daughter who they both know that they can't trust who put them in the situation to start with. The loss of their reputations. The loss of their jobs and sometimes their health. Yes, they brought some of it on themselves, but who started the ball rolling? One thing that boggles me I think is how is it acceptable for CA to want OCA to be held accountable for stealing money but not be accountable for her own child? But then again I think, she really didn't hold OCA accountable for that either in the past as she always covered OCA by paying off the thefts herself. Then I go back to one of the first jail tapes when OCA asked CA, "What am I supposed to learn from this?" I would like to ask CA the same question. "What was OCA supposed to learn from her arrest? What do you think that she did learn? That she could make up stories and lie about her father and brother molesting her and get away with it? That she could lie to LE and just have to pay with a few years time and a few thousand dollar fines and a year probation? That she could lie and have others help her to distribute the lies about a made up nanny and tarnish ZG's reputation all the while she knew that her daughter laid in a trash strewn swamp down the road from her own home? That her Mother would take care of whatever problems she left in the car afterward to be cleaned up? That her Mother would lie in the court of law for her. How can one single person take so many people down and then she come out on top? I just don't get it. Mind you, I'm speaking of OCA not CA. We all know how pretty much of the public that followed the case feel, but what about the attorneys and Judges that followed the case? Are they sitting back like us and are they asking, what happened? How can this be? I'm still asking: HOW CAN THIS BE?

I think that you are asking the same questions many of us are asking "ourselves". I think you could also add I think their relationship with Lee is also forever altered and not for the better.

What does CA now think in all that silence that must be pervading their home? She put OCA before everything and now she doesn't even have any contact with the daughter she fought so hard to save.

I don't see how either of them can ignore people like Jeff and his book, watching how impotent Jose sounds on interviews like Geraldo, and realizing how much OCA played them. And look at the wedge OCA forever drove between GA and CA? Now they have nothing. And I don't believe that the days, weeks, months, years will go by now the media hype has died down and the TH's no longer want to talk to them and the media doesn't follow them around - that they will be able to ignore just what they did to get to this day.

I do feel pity for them. That pity doesn't include forgiveness for CA, but her day has to be coming soon.

 

[atthelake]

I think that you are asking the same questions many of us are asking "ourselves". I think you could also add I think their relationship with Lee is also forever altered and not for the better.

What does CA now think in all that silence that must be pervading their home? She put OCA before everything and now she doesn't even have any contact with the daughter she fought so hard to save.

I don't see how either of them can ignore people like Jeff and his book, watching how impotent Jose sounds on interviews like Geraldo, and realizing how much OCA played them. And look at the wedge OCA forever drove between GA and CA? Now they have nothing. And I don't believe that the days, weeks, months, years will go by now the media hype has died down and the TH's no longer want to talk to them and the media doesn't follow them around - that they will be able to ignore just what they did to get to this day.

I do feel pity for them. That pity doesn't include forgiveness for CA, but her day has to be coming soon.

So many others are so very good with words that express how I feel but was unable to put to paper (or screen!) And to add.. the injury to Rick and Shriley P.....I can't fathom CA's family and how this affects.

BTW, whatever happened to that "cousin" on the radio show in Texas - who said it would "all come out". Wonder if they still have plans, or now - they've been pre-emptied, all of 'em. Wasn't that show before the verdict though? Perhaps post verdict - that they took a step back and relooked in the mirror?

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Please bare with me a sec...My heart is heavy and I need to unload. I sometimes wonder what the Anthony's think of now that it's over, I mean, other than how to make money to live off of. Their granddaughter is forever gone. Their reputations are forever tarnished. Their relationship with OCA is forever altered. Life will never be the same for them regardless, all the while OCA is living high off the hog without a care in the world. The one person that should have been held accountable is living better than they ever will. How many people would trust them in a job situation now? If you ask me OCA has not lost anything, she has gained her world, her freedom from her child and from her parents and has found her oyster. As much distrust as I have for CA and yes sometimes GA I feel that they are the ones who have lost everything. The family unit severed, the lost of their granddaughter, their daughter who they both know that they can't trust who put them in the situation to start with. The loss of their reputations. The loss of their jobs and sometimes their health. Yes, they brought some of it on themselves, but who started the ball rolling? One thing that boggles me I think is how is it acceptable for CA to want OCA to be held accountable for stealing money but not be accountable for her own child? But then again I think, she really didn't hold OCA accountable for that either in the past as she always covered OCA by paying off the thefts herself. Then I go back to one of the first jail tapes when OCA asked CA, "What am I supposed to learn from this?" I would like to ask CA the same question. "What was OCA supposed to learn from her arrest? What do you think that she did learn? That she could make up stories and lie about her father and brother molesting her and get away with it? That she could lie to LE and just have to pay with a few years time and a few thousand dollar fines and a year probation? That she could lie and have others help her to distribute the lies about a made up nanny and tarnish ZG's reputation all the while she knew that her daughter laid in a trash strewn swamp down the road from her own home? That her Mother would take care of whatever problems she left in the car afterward to be cleaned up? That her Mother would lie in the court of law for her. How can one single person take so many people down and then she come out on top? I just don't get it. Mind you, I'm speaking of OCA not CA. We all know how pretty much of the public that followed the case feel, but what about the attorneys and Judges that followed the case? Are they sitting back like us and are they asking, what happened? How can this be? I'm still asking: HOW CAN THIS BE?

A derelict judge and apathetic jury imo.

 

[logicalgirl]

A derelict judge and apathetic jury imo.

Chief Judge Belvin Perry is one of the most respected judges in the United States. Whatever he does, it is within the law or as the law requires it. As a judge he cannot let his personal opinion about anything that goes on in the courtroom to interfere with his actions.

I see lots of complaints about Judge Perry should have done this, or should have done that, but as I read the various legal summaries that fellow judges or lawyers have written, not one has written any negative comments about Judge Perry or how he ran his courtroom. It is one thing for him to sentence a woman who stood up and disrupted the courtroom, and quite another for a lawyer to comfort OCA - as much as it grated me. Both decisions fit within the laws available for him to base his decisions.

I saw nothing in any of HHJP's actions that indicated he showed any preference to OCA as a defendant, in fact to my eyes, quite the opposite. To the best of my knowledge, his job is to keep to the laws that guide the court and get a trial through from beginning to end. I think he did a fine job - much better than anyone else could have done. I don't get the comparison between the Conrad Murray trial and OCA's trial - Murrays trial was a mini trial compared to the mountain of evidence in the Anthony trial and the number of players involved.

For those who complain about HHJP, maybe it would be more fair to actually provide some points of law that indicate HHJP should have acted differently. I know we are unhappy about the verdict, but let's place the blame squarely on the shoulders of those it belongs to - the jury. And how about us backing off with this amount of disrespect for one of the finest judges Florida has ever seen. All IMO of course.

 

[Justin Tyme]

Chief Judge Belvin Perry is one of the most respected judges in the United States. Whatever he does, it is within the law or as the law requires it. As a judge he cannot let his personal opinion about anything that goes on in the courtroom to interfere with his actions.

I see lots of complaints about Judge Perry should have done this, or should have done that, but as I read the various legal summaries that fellow judges or lawyers have written, not one has written any negative comments about Judge Perry or how he ran his courtroom. It is one thing for him to sentence a woman who stood up and disrupted the courtroom, and quite another for a lawyer to comfort OCA - as much as it grated me. Both decisions fit within the laws available for him to base his decisions.

I saw nothing in any of HHJP's actions that indicated he showed any preference to OCA as a defendant, in fact to my eyes, quite the opposite. To the best of my knowledge, his job is to keep to the laws that guide the court and get a trial through from beginning to end. I think he did a fine job - much better than anyone else could have done. I don't get the comparison between the Conrad Murray trial and OCA's trial - Murrays trial was a mini trial compared to the mountain of evidence in the Anthony trial and the number of players involved.

For those who complain about HHJP, maybe it would be more fair to actually provide some points of law that indicate HHJP should have acted differently. I know we are unhappy about the verdict, but let's place the blame squarely on the shoulders of those it belongs to - the jury. And how about us backing off with this amount of disrespect for one of the finest judges Florida has ever seen. All IMO of course.

I agree with this also. What I'm wondering is how the Judges and Attorneys outside of this case that followed it as we have feel, being that they have more insight to the inner workings of the Courts and Legal system than we do? I know that they are bound by whats legal in the Court of Law. I have the utmost respect for the HHJP and the State. But do they feel that things need to be changed and if so what? I'm just wondering if they feel as we do?:banghead::waitasec:

 

[logicalgirl]

I agree with this also. What I'm wondering is how the Judges and Attorneys outside of this case that followed it as we have feel, being that they have more insight to the inner workings of the Courts and Legal system than we do? I know that they are bound by whats legal in the Court of Law. I have the utmost respect for the HHJP and the State. But do they feel that things need to be changed and if so what? I'm just wondering if they feel as we do?:banghead::waitasec:

I have the very slight changes in HHJP's demeanor burnt on to my brain when he was reading the verdict papers. I feel certain if he could have started hurling things at the wall in disgust he would have because he was clearly disturbed at the verdict.

I also think he had to restrain himself from running over to the jury box and smacking those people silly. But what the answer is regarding juries I just don't know - I don't know enough about the law to know how it can be changed. But OCA certainly got a jury of her peers - who only think in the next ten minutes - just like her.

 

[2goldfish]

I have the very slight changes in HHJP's demeanor burnt on to my brain when he was reading the verdict papers. I feel certain if he could have started hurling things at the wall in disgust he would have because he was clearly disturbed at the verdict.

I also think he had to restrain himself from running over to the jury box and smacking those people silly. But what the answer is regarding juries I just don't know - I don't know enough about the law to know how it can be changed. But OCA certainly got a jury of her peers - who only think in the next ten minutes - just like her.

BBM ITA I've never watched a trial before so I didnt know what to make of it but 17yo and I both noted that he looked angry and like he couldnt believe what he was seeing. at the time I thought, ohhh. maybe they went for manslaughter (because until that verdict was read I never in a million years would have believed 12 people that stupid were all on the same jury MOO IMO IMHO)

 

[Sammiejam]

Wow, the Caylee really did look quite a lot like the Grandmother age 6 too! I hope they do get DNA testing done. (even though it is a loooong shot)

http://www.myfoxboston.com/dpp/news...ael-duggan-is-caylee-anthonys-father-20110629

 

[com n sense]

Chief Judge Belvin Perry is one of the most respected judges in the United States. Whatever he does, it is within the law or as the law requires it. As a judge he cannot let his personal opinion about anything that goes on in the courtroom to interfere with his actions.

I see lots of complaints about Judge Perry should have done this, or should have done that, but as I read the various legal summaries that fellow judges or lawyers have written, not one has written any negative comments about Judge Perry or how he ran his courtroom. It is one thing for him to sentence a woman who stood up and disrupted the courtroom, and quite another for a lawyer to comfort OCA - as much as it grated me. Both decisions fit within the laws available for him to base his decisions.

I saw nothing in any of HHJP's actions that indicated he showed any preference to OCA as a defendant, in fact to my eyes, quite the opposite. To the best of my knowledge, his job is to keep to the laws that guide the court and get a trial through from beginning to end. I think he did a fine job - much better than anyone else could have done. I don't get the comparison between the Conrad Murray trial and OCA's trial - Murrays trial was a mini trial compared to the mountain of evidence in the Anthony trial and the number of players involved.

For those who complain about HHJP, maybe it would be more fair to actually provide some points of law that indicate HHJP should have acted differently. I know we are unhappy about the verdict, but let's place the blame squarely on the shoulders of those it belongs to - the jury. And how about us backing off with this amount of disrespect for one of the finest judges Florida has ever seen. All IMO of course.

ITA LG. I know JP was just as floored about this jury & verdict as we all were.
I was so looking forward to JP closing statement before he sentenced OCA.
That is what I looked most forward to since the trial began. Sadly, we will never know.