Sidebar Discussion

[bayouland]

Whenever I hear the word menopause I think of my straight laced GP. If she ever cracked a smile her face would shatter - you know the type. We discussed menopause one day and then she asked if I was sexually active.

I said no - isn't the word - men-o-pause? I thought i was supposed to abstain until it was over. All I got was a "dirty look" - geez...(er ...sorry....too personal?)

:floorlaugh:

 

[MsMacGyver]

Just as FCA will NEVER tell the truth of what happened to ANYONE, CA will never admit the truth to herself or anyone else. She really believes that God will forgive her the lies because they were told to protect her daughter. We saw who trumps FCA...CA's parents/Dad...CA goes into what we farm girls call..the mad sow mode. Anyone that has never seen this..if you touch their babies..they come after YOU..They will jump fences, plow through anything to get to you. CA has put the pain of Caylee on the back shelf, she can't change what happened so she's going to protect the next person on her "list". She understands our anger, she just doesn't care!

GA has a temper and if the trial had been a murder and the victim FCA, I might suspect him of wrong doing. LG post about how GA felt about Caylee was WELL said. She put herself in GA's shoes and the picture becomes much clearer. I can see GA lie for CA but thats it. He doesn't lie from the same place CA does. Even his body language was total opposite of CA during the interviews.
Now when we speak of GA lieing about his OWN actions, thats different. He went to Rivers apartment because he was looking for something..maybe someone to listen, not tell him how he SHOULD feel, maybe sex, maybe money but I find it hard to believe he trusted her enough to be his priest, to confess what he knew.

 

[MsMacGyver]

Thank you for posting my old friend the hinky meter - such great work they did.
Okay - got it - George himself is hinky - that's a whole different kettle of fish..(hey what is it about fish in "expressions" and what are they doing in a kettle anyway?) Okay then a whole different subject.
The problem I see with discussing George along with this case is that too many peeps grab the idea and run with it, and all of a sudden - George is involved in the case and perhaps a major player.

Let's have a look at George - a middle aged man who to his wife and family is a failure. He can't keep a good job, he isn't working at anything that gives him a sense of pride, and he appears to be shut out of his family life because of his animosity to FCA. The only thing he has to love is Caylee.

But he's still a man. And here's where I think George has secrets I don't think he wants to come out in the dirty wash to the world. I think George "gets around". And I think like many middle aged men who are frustrated and know their youth is gone - look to other women and sites for ..well..we'll leave it there.

Sure I think in his soul he knew the smell in the trunk was the smell of death. Did he know it was Caylee or some other kind of no good business that FCA was mixed up in? Then when FCA was forced to come up with a story, I think he just could not let himself go there. Not whole heartedly to stand against the rest of his family who were all he really had. A man torn between his secrets, his loyalties and his desperation to belong. If the LE had welcomed him with open arms as a "brother" - the story might have turned out differently. But he was "seduced and abandoned" by them - they took what they needed and then cut him loose. So he belonged nowhere and the thing that made his life worthwhile was gone. A man is there to "protect his family and keep them safe". George failed at that and he knows it.

Sure, George is an odd one - no doubt. Too bad the Defense played him and the media. Same thing with Lee from my perspective...poked fun, threw out allegations - and we're surprised he was completely uncooperative? I wasn't.
All IMO of course.

Because fish smell bad and you have to put them inside something so no one will know where they are at...sound familar.....


GA's lies come from a different place then CA's..He deals with them in a different way...He tends to stick his head in the sand and let someone else do the dirty work...

Who was it during this mess that had a mental break down, ended up spending time in a hospital. It's harder for some people to deal with emotions. Sometimes they get physically sick, sometimes they get mentally sick, they might get violent, withdraw, attempt suicide, pound stakes in their yard with hammers, spray people with a water hose, run around the yard with a bat......:noooo:

 

[strawberry]

What on earth are you having for a snack before you go to bed????:floorlaugh:

Spagettios! :floorlaugh:

 

[LambChop]

Just as FCA will NEVER tell the truth of what happened to ANYONE, CA will never admit the truth to herself or anyone else. She really believes that God will forgive her the lies because they were told to protect her daughter. We saw who trumps FCA...CA's parents/Dad...CA goes into what we farm girls call..the mad sow mode. Anyone that has never seen this..if you touch their babies..they come after YOU..They will jump fences, plow through anything to get to you. CA has put the pain of Caylee on the back shelf, she can't change what happened so she's going to protect the next person on her "list". She understands our anger, she just doesn't care!

GA has a temper and if the trial had been a murder and the victim FCA, I might suspect him of wrong doing. LG post about how GA felt about Caylee was WELL said. She put herself in GA's shoes and the picture becomes much clearer. I can see GA lie for CA but thats it. He doesn't lie from the same place CA does. Even his body language was total opposite of CA during the interviews.
Now when we speak of GA lieing about his OWN actions, thats different. He went to Rivers apartment because he was looking for something..maybe someone to listen, not tell him how he SHOULD feel, maybe sex, maybe money but I find it hard to believe he trusted her enough to be his priest, to confess what he knew.

And something else that SB (River's sister) mentioned in her deposition was that River was living with her boyfriend. He worked in real estate, left the house around 9 and was back sometime after 4pm. So how did that work out with GA going over to her condo. I suppose GA could have gone over anytime between 9 and 4 but we were led to believe GA was over there at night when he was suppose to be working. Plus would you chance having an affair with someone when you know your live-in boyfriend could just pop in at any time. GA had to sign in and was pulling that big sign all over town at the time. It just does not make a lot of sense that he would be having an affair with someone and not be worried about being caught. It's not as if the A's were not being hounded for interviews by the media. They were easily identifiable. When RC changed her testimony in favor of the defense I said I smell a rat. But that is just me. jmo

 

[marge_rita]

Whenever I hear the word menopause I think of my straight laced GP. If she ever cracked a smile her face would shatter - you know the type. We discussed menopause one day and then she asked if I was sexually active.

I said no - isn't the word - men-o-pause? I thought i was supposed to abstain until it was over. All I got was a "dirty look" - geez...(er ...sorry....too personal?)

girl,
you are f u n n y to the max. :floorlaugh:

 

[MsMacGyver]

BBM
At some point early on when GA was talking about his silent/whispered prayer before the trunk was opened. I remember feeling that he threw his "daughter" in as an after thought. FCA was communicating with CA through out the 31 days and of course GA surely knew that so he knew FCA was alive. I'd go look for that video clip but there are so many that I don't want to wade through all of them, but maybe all of you know what I'm saying anyway and I'd love to read your thoughts on it.

I think the whole family left out, twisted, added, made up and turned up side down the truth of what they knew.....:banghead:

GA was in LE for awhile. Not a big time officer but he knew what that smell was. His mind went to what he knew. I have no doubt he added, subtracted and whatever else he needed to do to make that statement what CA wanted it to be. Most of us will tweek the truth at times but in a murder case involving family, we would all have to decide how far we would be willing to go and why. Maybe the stronger you are mentally and how much you believe in telling the truth will guide actions.
I believe no matter how painful, it's always better in the long run to tell the truth, get to the truth. We can see how painful it can be when you don't!

 

[MsMacGyver]

Take the chloroform. There was at least one search done. When Tracy was babysitting FCA, Tracy brought up chloroform to FCA. Her response..Oh, ether.
Now this is a 22 year old who never finished school, who showed no signs of being interested in chemistry but could make a connection between chloroform and ether..why? Because she watched CSI or because when she looked it up it says ether?
I know what chloroform is because of movies and I know what ether is because my dad used it on equipment but I would never connect the two.

 

[MsMacGyver]

Can you imagine if everyone had told the honest to God truth, this never would have happened. After it did happen, what people would have been spared, time money, the list is endless.
Trying to make the jump from telling the truth to what was done is impossible. The A's are blind, they don't understand where this actually started and where it could have ended. Thats why most parents teach their children that lieing and stealing are bad. When we catch our child in a lie, when we catch them stealing, we correct it or al least try. CA taught FCA it was OK by NOT calling her on what she was doing and now they have enforced the behavior and created an even worse monster. Add the DT, jury and now you have a very dangerous person.

 

[wonders]

I think the whole family left out, twisted, added, made up and turned up side down the truth of what they knew.....:banghead:

GA was in LE for awhile. Not a big time officer but he knew what that smell was. His mind went to what he knew. I have no doubt he added, subtracted and whatever else he needed to do to make that statement what CA wanted it to be. Most of us will tweek the truth at times but in a murder case involving family, we would all have to decide how far we would be willing to go and why. Maybe the stronger you are mentally and how much you believe in telling the truth will guide actions.
I believe no matter how painful, it's always better in the long run to tell the truth, get to the truth. We can see how painful it can be when you don't![/QUOTE]

Exactly!
I couldn't even try to begin to lie on the level we've seen here.
A couple of weeks ago we had a surprise 60th b-day party for my husband and I had to lie so that he wouldn't catch on but I felt like it had been branded on my forehead I'm a lier. It was a horrible feeling even though it was for something that turned out to be so wonderful.

 

[vlpate]

It was closed for a reason.

Oh I see. I was actually talking about the transcript - the show was not on yet when I took a hiatus :crazy: and now I do see it is closed.

Is this thread about any and everything? I can't figure out what's ok to post and what would be off topic.

Thanks MissJames....

P.S. .... "away" and not "a way".

 

[Intermezzo]

I think men deal with guilt in a different way. A man feels guilty when they let their family down, don't provide a certain lifstyle, don't earn a certain amount of money. They feel guilt if they let their spouse down, they are not the man their expected to be, they don't protect their children like they should. This is what GA put in his suicide note. Whether it was a real attempt or put on, GA did list what he felt guilty about.
How they deal with the guilt is important.

Your post brings to mind the book "Men are from Mars Women are from Venus" by John Gray PhD

 

[logicalgirl]

Because fish smell bad and you have to put them inside something so no one will know where they are at...sound familar.....


GA's lies come from a different place then CA's..He deals with them in a different way...He tends to stick his head in the sand and let someone else do the dirty work...

Who was it during this mess that had a mental break down, ended up spending time in a hospital. It's harder for some people to deal with emotions. Sometimes they get physically sick, sometimes they get mentally sick, they might get violent, withdraw, attempt suicide, pound stakes in their yard with hammers, spray people with a water hose, run around the yard with a bat......:noooo:

LOL we aren't going to bring up Joy Wrey again are we? Agree but she was on #5 - 6 I think so not sure if it counts...:great:

 

[MsMacGyver]

When my son was little I suspected he was shop lifting but I could never catch him red handed..he was good! One day he went shopping with my mother, shop lifted and was caught. When he got home I raised the roof. He is 25 and probably still believes he has a police record. Can you imagine if I had told him in any way this was ok. It might seem to be put in simple terms but it sometimes is the smallest act that can grow into a larger one. If you have a child with mental problems it gets alot more complicated and difficult. I tried to explain this to my daughter when she had her son. She didn't believe in spanking. Do you spank a child for playing on the road or do you let them get run over? I never enjoyed spanking my kids, I never enjoyed being the heavy hand of the law in our family but I knew as a single mom I had to raise my kids to respect me and the law otherwise I would spend more time in court when they got older than I wanted.

 

[MsMacGyver]

Your post brings to mind the book "Men are from Mars Women are from Venus" by John Gray PhD

Excatly..Me Tarzan you Jane..Men are suppose to be hunters, protectors..women are caregivers, loving, protective but when you go to far one way or the other the lines become faded. Some men beat their children and some ignore them. Some women beat their children or ignore them. What we are is a product of our upbringing. Doesn't mean we can't change but sometimes you can go too far one way because your parent went too far the other way..It's all about balance!

 

[natsound]

Excatly..Me Tarzan you Jane..Men are suppose to be hunters, protectors..women are caregivers, loving, protective but when you go to far one way or the other the lines become faded. Some men beat their children and some ignore them. Some women beat their children or ignore them. What we are is a product of our upbringing. Doesn't mean we can't change but sometimes you can go too far one way because your parent went too far the other way..It's all about balance!

:coffeews: OT but I have to add to this because I just heard it an hour ago on TV... we're not who we are because of what happened to us in the past. We are who we are because of how we respond to what happened to us in the past. I thought that was pretty poignant, and doesn't allow us to play the victim all our lives.

 

[Meri]

Because fish smell bad and you have to put them inside something so no one will know where they are at...sound familar.....

Well, actually ...


Kettle of fish

Meaning

This term is usually part of 'a fine kettle of fish', 'a pretty kettle of fish' etc, which mean 'a muddle or awkward state of affairs'. The expression 'a different kettle of fish' has, as seems fitting, a different meaning, which is 'an alternative; a different thing altogether'.

Origin

Being English, I have a close association with kettles - essential equipment for a custom that the English can still claim world dominance, the making of 'a nice cup of tea'. Tea-kettles were first named in the early 18th century; until then 'kettle' referred to any vessel for boiling water. The noun 'kettle of fish' is listed by several reference works as dating from 1745, although the earliest actual citation of the term in print that I can find is in Thomas Newte's A tour in England and Scotland in 1785:

"It is customary for the gentlemen who live near the Tweed to entertain their neighbours and friends with a Fete Champetre, which they call giving 'a kettle of fish'. Tents or marquees are pitched near the flowery banks of the river... a fire is kindled, and live salmon thrown into boiling kettles."

The French term fête-champêtre, meaning 'rural feast', was still in use at the time to describe outdoor meals. The word 'picnic' (also French - 'pique-nique') was introduced in the late 18th century but wasn't widely used until the end of the century.

Why a kettle of fish was chosen to represent a muddle or mess isn't clear. It may be an allusion to the confusion of bones, head and skin that is left after the fish has been eaten. It may also be that 'a pretty kettle of fish' was just pure invention, along the lines of 'a pretty pickle'. The earliest uses of the phrase, which apparently are examples of the 'muddle' meaning come from Henry Fielding and pre-date the fête-champêtre citation above. In The history of the adventures of Joseph Andrews, 1742, he writes:

"'Here's a pretty kettle of fish', cries Mrs. Tow-wouse."

and, in The history of Tom Jones, 1749:

"Fine doings at my house! A rare kettle of fish I have discovered at last."

If those examples from Fielding aren't entirely clear in their meaning we do get an unambiguous explanation of the phrase in Francis Grose’s Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue, 1811:

"When a person has perplexed his affairs in general, or any particular business, he is said to have made a fine kettle of fish of it."

'A different kettle of fish' is much later and is known since the 1920s. By that time 'kettle of fish' had been appropriated to mean simply 'state of affairs'.

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/kettle-of-fish.html

 

[krkrjx]

I think the whole family left out, twisted, added, made up and turned up side down the truth of what they knew.....:banghead:

GA was in LE for awhile. Not a big time officer but he knew what that smell was. His mind went to what he knew. I have no doubt he added, subtracted and whatever else he needed to do to make that statement what CA wanted it to be. Most of us will tweek the truth at times but in a murder case involving family, we would all have to decide how far we would be willing to go and why. Maybe the stronger you are mentally and how much you believe in telling the truth will guide actions.
I believe no matter how painful, it's always better in the long run to tell the truth, get to the truth. We can see how painful it can be when you don't!

Well, I have been pizzed at George a bunch of times throughout this whole thing. In my mind, he seemed like the most likely person to stand up for Caylee and there were too many times that I felt he did not do that or did it only to a degree before pulling back. George loved Caylee, I have no doubt about that. George knew immediately what the smell in the car was but, IMO, he did not know immediately what the smell being there meant.

IOW, George said his little prayer for Caylee and Casey being OK as soon as he smelled the car. To me, that was instinctive on his part. He smelled a smell that he was familiar with as the smell of death, and that smell was in his daughter's car. His daughter was not present, and her daughter also was not present. Yet both had left together in that car. I think George's mind was working quickly but I think that at that time he was thinking more like a father than a cop.

I believe that even if George knew subconsciously that Caylee might have died, he didn't know that Casey was responsible. I do not think at that time he had any reason to consider that as a first possible scenario. But, I do believe it did not take George long to realize the situation for what it really was.

At trial I think George testified in hope of finding justice for Caylee. I am not sure what exactly his relationship was with River Cruz or if he was being totally honest about it. But his body language, the sound of his voice, and the look on his face when on the witness stand having to answer questions about molesting Casey told me all I needed to know about that particular subject. There is just no way that any of that happened, IMO. Also, every time George speaks of his feelings for Caylee and how he misses her, I believe him 100%.

George lied some in his depositions. He may or may not have had an affair with RC. He may have been looking at sites on the internet. He certainly acted like a lunatic at times--swinging sticks or whatever around out in his yard, yelling at media about how it had not been his granddaughter in that car when he had to know better...among other things.

I understand a father can be very angry with his daughter for what she has said or done, to the point of their relationship being permanently fractured. But that does not mean that father will forsake his daughter or that he wants to see her put to death for her crime, even a crime as heinous as this was.

George is Casey's father--that will never change. What has changed is that for the time being he is not her Dad.

 

[rotterdam]

BBM
At some point early on when GA was talking about his silent/whispered prayer before the trunk was opened. I remember feeling that he threw his "daughter" in as an after thought. FCA was communicating with CA through out the 31 days and of course GA surely knew that so he knew FCA was alive. I'd go look for that video clip but there are so many that I don't want to wade through all of them, but maybe all of you know what I'm saying anyway and I'd love to read your thoughts on it.

Yes, that part was always puzzling. So was the cleaning of the car. After all, unless both GA and CA strongly suspected KC of harming Caylee, why clean the car. They could be destroying evidence that could nail another culprit responsible for Caylee's murder . Yet , they kept proclaiming that KC would not harm their granddaughter. A cover up from day 1, starting on July 15 2008 and then went into high gear after DP was put on the table.

 

[Pattymarie]

Just checking in...just to say I remain enraged at the verdict.