Similar Crime Scenes

[Solace]

http://www.answers.com/topic/search-warrant

To obtain a search warrant, an officer must personally appear before, or speak directly with, a judge or magistrate. The officer must present information that establishes probable cause to believe that a search would yield evidence related to a crime. Probable cause exists when an officer has either personal knowledge or trustworthy hearsay from an informant or witness. The officer must fill out an affidavit stating with particularity the person to be seized and searched, the area to be searched, and the objects sought. The warrant need not specify the manner in which the search will be executed.

Charlotte, this police officer will be speaking with the District Attorney first wheter you like it or not..

 

[Solace]

http://www.answers.com/topic/search-warrant

To obtain a search warrant, an officer must personally appear before, or speak directly with, a judge or magistrate. The officer must present information that establishes probable cause to believe that a search would yield evidence related to a crime. Probable cause exists when an officer has either personal knowledge or trustworthy hearsay from an informant or witness. The officer must fill out an affidavit stating with particularity the person to be seized and searched, the area to be searched, and the objects sought. The warrant need not specify the manner in which the search will be executed.

I am not disputing that he is going to present evidence. There you go spinning again. But he is going to present it to HIS district attorney first. This is a little more dense than I was ready for.

 

[Solace]

Ahhhhh, Solace. I had already decided that I won't bother with you any longer. You either don't know what you are talking about or you are playing a game.

Take care...

You do the same Charlotte.

 

[snowqueen]

Do you think the Detective just goes to Court and starts giving information. His probable cause is introduced by the District Attorney who is going to take this case on, most of the time in the Judge's chambers.. Come on SnowQueen, you are starting to make me nervous. You are worse than a difficult teenager.

I believe this is your post..........:loser:

 

[Solace]

I believe this is your post..........:loser:

Have a good one. You can't win them all.

 

[Ames]

<snipped>

That was a very good point about the head wound and the coroner being able to tell the Ramseys about it. I don't know about them, but my father was killed in a car accident, and I went to the ER to second I heard and sat with him even after he had died, not wanting to let go of him personally. I questioned the doctor who treated him extensively, and later I needed to read the autopsy all the way through to finally settle in my mind what happened to him. I think that's normal for someone who doesn't know and needs to know.

Just want to let you know how truly sorry I am to hear about your father. I couldn't even imagine what you went through.

It reminds of something I heard but did not read personally from one of John Douglas's books. A mother of a young girl who was murdered sat with the coroner and went over every mark on the child's body. She needed to know what happened to her baby. I understand that. I also think a parent who already knows what happened to their child and doesn't want to bring it up again would behave like the Ramseys did. But that's my own opinion. <---just for you, SQ.

Exactly, thats why I say that Patsy and John just didn't seemed too concerned about what happened to JB. They were told to leave, so they did....they didn't have to leave the grounds though....so why did they? The mother of the young girl that you mentioned in your post...did what any normal mother would do. John and Patsy had no concern...like they couldn't have cared less. IMO....NO concern = guilty parents.

 

[Ames]

Just a little aside.....if I'm not mistaken the autopsy did not being until a little after 8:00 a.m. on the 27th. Do you think they should have sat at the morgue all night? And who exactly should have been there? John, Patsy, Burke, John Andrew, Melinda?

Good grief....the point is....they did not ride to the morgue with their dead daughter. Wouldn't YOU have? I don't care if the autopsy was a MONTH later, they still should have at least went WITH her. I wouldn't want MY child taking that trip alone.....you (and the Ramsey's)...obviously are different, and think the same.

 

[snowqueen]

Good grief....the point is....they did not ride to the morgue with their dead daughter. Wouldn't YOU have? I don't care if the autopsy was a MONTH later, they still should have at least went WITH her. I wouldn't want MY child taking that trip alone.....you (and the Ramsey's)...obviously are different, and think the same.

What you or I would have done is not relevant. And as far as I'm concerned the choice of what to do was theirs to make. Doing things differently from what you might have done does not make the Ramseys guilty.

 

[philamena]

Snowqueen: The fact that John was making arrangements to leave the area 20 minutes after the finding of the body is just cold, period. He wants to get his family out of town; he also let Berke leave the house the morning of the 26th when JB was missing at approximatley 7:30 a.m. Would you do that or would you keep your son with you, among friends and police for his safety.

Playing catchup on this thread.

Solace,
Ditto what you said.

It simply is NOT normal behaviour to call a private pilot and make arrangements to leave the state after your child is found murdered...PERIOD.

 

[philamena]

...
Is it not possible that John called his lawyers very early that morning. It is more than possible. It is likely.

Not only possible and likely, but probable.

 

[philamena]

Hold up with getting phone records? All LE had to do was get a court order and go to the telephone company for those records.

If you wanted someone's power bill would you think that only they could provide the bill?

Nope, nopey, no no. The Ram's phone records were not gotten that easily, neither were they obtained quickly...how about they were never gotten?

 

[Becba]

Nope, nopey, no no. The Ram's phone records were not gotten that easily, neither were they obtained quickly...how about they were never gotten?

I think you are right. They never got them. Seems Boullder treated them special from the get go. But why haven't they went back and gotten them since? I think there is more than enough reason for a warrant.

 

[philamena]

Becba,
Oh yes, there is more than enough reason for a warrent.
Then again, IMO there is/was enough evidence to arrest Patsy and charge her with the murder of her daughter.

 

[Eagle1]

Good idea Snowqueen. Start searching for those documentaries where Patsy is parading around the grave with her arms crossed over her chest staring at the grave like one of the statues in a cemetary.

You're so right about that picture of Patsy at the gravesite being awful, even disgusting, Solace.

But SnowQueen's right about some things too, and is being KIND to those people out of the goodness of her heart and I realize you're not the only one trying to dictate what she should think, so I'm not picking on anyone. It's just that, aren't we wasting a lot of time?

I don't think anyone disputes that it's an awful picture, we could wish never to have to look at ever again. Sickening. But the R family could have been in various degrees of shock, their strange "game" or whatever with the friends having resulted in disaster and their being ordered out of their house, no place to even go.

Maybe John was thinking they'd at least have lodging in Atlanta with people who'd love them while getting over the shock, would help with the funeral arrangements, etc. There's no way that could prove guilt, besides their letting something very stupid go on in their home involving their child. I don't think anybody disagrees that they were incredibly stupid and naive. That's not deliberate murder, though, no matter how you slice or spin it. SnowQueen and I and everyone here already have heard everything you've heard. Am I not correct that you anti-R's guys can't tell us anything new, unless something else happens like the Karr episode? I don't mean that as sarcasm or even a hint of criticizm for anyone, just a plea to let's move on.

So it was bad judgement, a snap decision, to want to go home to Atlanta leaving JonBenet with strangers. Amen. Whatever had been going on in that house obviously was even worse bad judgement. They weren't using their educated brains at all. Granted. But that's never going to prove murder.

 

[snowqueen]

Whose fault is it that their telephone records were never obtained? Changes are the Ramseys didn't keep their telephone records. I don't - once I pay my bill I toss the bills which show the long distance numbers I called. Back in 1996 I doubt that local calls were recorded.

 

[IrishMist]

Whose fault is it that their telephone records were never obtained? Changes are the Ramseys didn't keep their telephone records. I don't - once I pay my bill I toss the bills which show the long distance numbers I called. Back in 1996 I doubt that local calls were recorded.

The BPD wanted to subpoena them and the DA wouldn't let them. You don't get them from the suspects, you get them from the phone company. And, even in 1995, they tracked calls.

 

[snowqueen]

The BPD wanted to subpoena them and the DA wouldn't let them. You don't get them from the suspects, you get them from the phone company. And, even in 1995, they tracked calls.

Of course you get records from the telephone company, but the implication yesterday was that the Ramseys should have provided those records or that they and the DA were instrumental in the records not being provided.

Did you see the conversation yesterday about the fact that police officers get search warrants from judges - not from DAs?

And, I'm still not sure that local telephone numbers were recorded in 1996. Long distance numbers, yes. But for local calls only the total number of minutes was recorded - if I am not mistaken.

 

[IrishMist]

Of course you get records from the telephone company, but the implication yesterday was that the Ramseys should have provided those records or that they and the DA were instrumental in the records not being provided.

Did you see the conversation yesterday about the fact that police officers get search warrants from judges - not from DAs?

And, I'm still not sure that local telephone numbers were recorded in 1996. Long distance numbers, yes. But for local calls only the total number of minutes was recorded - if I am not mistaken.

You're right- it's warrants, not subpeonas. That's a mistake that I need to stop making!

I'm fairly sure that in Boulder, at least at the time, they had to get approval through the DA. I'll look further, I think that info is in PMPT.

As far as numbers being recorded, what the consumer receives on their bill, and what the phone company has the ability to track are two different things. At the very least, they would have had record as to what time the calls were made. Cell phone records listed every call.

Whether the Ramsey's are guilty of this crime or not, I think those records were important to investigate. If they are innocent, it would have behooved them to let them be seen.

 

[BBB167893]

This is a joke, right? At the very least, obstruction was the crime here.

 

[snowqueen]

You're right- it's warrants, not subpeonas. That's a mistake that I need to stop making!

I'm fairly sure that in Boulder, at least at the time, they had to get approval through the DA. I'll look further, I think that info is in PMPT.

As far as numbers being recorded, what the consumer receives on their bill, and what the phone company has the ability to track are two different things. At the very least, they would have had record as to what time the calls were made. Cell phone records listed every call.

Whether the Ramsey's are guilty of this crime or not, I think those records were important to investigate. If they are innocent, it would have behooved them to let them be seen.

I doubt the telephone company would have released the records without a search warrant as a matter of policy. However, the Ramseys could have requested copies of their "records" and turned them over to LE. Do we know that LE asked the Ramseys for copies of the records?

And, again I don't think local calls were recorded by the telephone in 1996 - just the minutes of use, i.e., for purposes of billing measured local service.

In any case, what is it people think their telephone records would have revealed?