Since Sandy Hook, 1,000 kids under age 12 have died from guns

[Caffeine]

Hi again, sorry to keep asking questions but I want to understand properly. What sort of weather conditions or activities would you need different guns for?

(I could google it but it's more useful asking a real person!)

No problem, reasonable question.

When carrying a concealed firearm, I think ideally you want to accomplish 2 things: 1) You don't want it to be visible or obvious you have a weapon when in public 2) you want to be able to access it quickly if need be.

For instance, if my wife is jogging in August and it's 90 degrees she'd be wearing less clothes than if it were January and 30 degrees. In warmer temps where you are wearing fewer layers, a smaller gun would be ideal and less visible. In colder weather you have the advantage of a more layers to better conceal and in turn can carry a more full sized weapon inconspicuously.

 

[KaaBoom]

Action steps we as a nation can take to help alleviate (though not entirely eliminate) the problem:

1- Require registration. There is no current database of gun owners and which firearms they own. Having a national registry would help keep track of who owns what and who shouldn't have access to firearms. The problem is that there is this belief that if there's a registry, the govt can roll in an take them all away easier.

2- Insurance. This will cover gun owners if their gun is stolen and used in a crime or in an accidental shooting. Just as with car insurance, accidents make premiums go up, nobody wants that, so they avoid accidents as best they can (more likely to secure firearms away from children). No insurance? Fines, no access to ranges, etc. If your firearm is stolen, you report it immediately, just as you would your car.

3-NO PRIVATE SALES. As it stands, in many states, a private citizen has no responsibility to report a gun sale and has no obligation to ask a person their background. You can list your gun on gun sales websites and meet people whenever and wherever to sell a firearm.

4- Take domestic violence seriously and charge, indict, and convict properly. Currently, most domestic violence leads nowhere and even if it does, it's generally a misdemeanor. Domestic violence offenders are the number one cause of gun violence in our country and there is absolutely NOTHING preventing offenders from purchasing, owning, and possessing firearms. To compound this, children raised in a domestic violent household are more likely to commit gun violence themselves.

Obviously none of this will completely eliminate homicide, just as regulations on vehicles and speed limits doesn't prevent car accidents. However, these measures DO reduce the number of vehicle related deaths, and I believe measures similar will reduce the number of firearm related deaths.

All, JMO.

That is a very good analogy. Can you imagine, what traffic fatalities would be like if we made it as easy to drive a car, as it is to own a gun? No more insurance requirements. People would be able to drive legally without any insurance. No more driver's testing. People would be able to drive with no skill or experience whatsoever. No more drunk driving laws. There is no law against using firearms while drunk. Physically and mentally disabled people would all be allowed to drive. A 90 year old legally blind person, with frequent epileptic seizures, who has never driven in their life, would suddenly be able to drive.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

No problem, reasonable question.

When carrying a concealed firearm, I think ideally you want to accomplish 2 things: 1) You don't want it to be visible or obvious you have a weapon when in public 2) you want to be able to access it quickly if need be.

For instance, if my wife is jogging in August and it's 90 degrees she'd be wearing less clothes than if it were January and 30 degrees. In warmer temps where you are wearing fewer layers, a smaller gun would be ideal and less visible. In colder weather you have the advantage of a more layers to better conceal and in turn can carry a more full sized weapon inconspicuously.

Thank you, great answer and I'm slowly learning! Though, if the "summer gun" is sufficient for your wife to feel safe on the streets, why would it not be good for all situations and purposes? I suppose what I'm getting at is whether is is truly necessary to have more than one? If you and your wife could only legally have one each, would you manage with that?

This goes to everyone by the way, not just Caffeine!

That is a very good analogy. Can you imagine, what traffic fatalities would be like if we made it as easy to drive a car, as it is to own a gun? No more insurance requirements. People would be able to drive legally without any insurance. No more driver's testing. People would be able to drive with no skill or experience whatsoever. No more drunk driving laws. There is no law against using firearms while drunk. Physically and mentally disabled people would all be allowed to drive. A 90 year old legally blind person, with frequent epileptic seizures, who has never driven in their life, would suddenly be able to drive.

Agree, great analogy Tawny, and you made it even stronger Kaaboom. Reading your post doesn't it seem utterly reckless to have such loose rules and regs on something so deadly.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Another thing I was wondering about and this question is to those of you who carry a gun for normal day-to-day stuff like jogging or shopping: when you go abroad on vacation, do you feel safe being unarmed?

 

[human]

Yes, but still had all her guns.

And brought him to the shooting range

 

[human]

Yes, the number of bombing deaths and injuries worldwide grew by a whopping 50 percent between 2010 and 2015.

In 2015 alone, 33,000 people worldwide were killed or injured by explosive weapons in 2015.

That is truly awful.

Comparatively, 53,720 people were injured or killed by firearms in 2015 — in America alone.

What's the answer for this?

People in countries that have bombs have many from the US to kill them. This creates children with no parents. People who have severe injuries.

This creates the anger, the reactive atrachment disorder where children have no one to care for them and the nothing to lose mind set.

Ending war. This discussion would not be allowed here

 

[human]

Depends on your intent for ownership.

In some jurisdictions, yes you need a license or a permit to buy. This is typically approved by your local sheriff who is taking into consideration 1) a basic background check 2) other considerations that aren't felony convictions.

Some US states just require a background check only, so technically no "license" is required, just a lack of felony convictions and proof of residency within the state.

Now, to carry a concealed firearm most states, almost all, require a license which typically will consist of actual firearms training, outlining state law, and a test based on written questions. This exact curriculum varies in each state, though.

As for guns in America, we are way past the point where we can stop senseless violence. There's way too many firearms out there, both legal and illegal and the knee jerk response of simply banning all the guns would be such an impossible undertaking at this point; both a legal level and actually physically seizing all the firearms out there.

With that said, I own numerous firearms. For the same reason I have insurance, or an alarm system at home, or safety features in my car - it may save my life, it may not. Either way I like to be prepared.

Isn’t shooting someone a kneejerk reaction? I believe on here I have read where citizens shoot a totally innocent person or LE shoots a totally innocent person

 

[human]

I don’t know about cities, but where I lived in the country, specific houses were targeted for burgkarky because they knew there were guns. I imagine everywhere people talk and gossip about people they know.

I knew of lots of people eho had guns, but I did not know them personally.

 

[Tawny]

I don’t know about cities, but where I lived in the country, specific houses were targeted for burgkarky because they knew there were guns. I imagine everywhere people talk and gossip about people they know.

I knew of lots of people eho had guns, but I did not know them personally.

On local Facebook pages, I can name numerous people who brag about all their guns. I think they believe they're protecting themselves by sending the message that they are armed, but it's not hard to find out where they live (public records) and watch their routine. These people don't see past their own nose enough to know not to talk about how many guns they have and where they live, why should I believe they take ANY other safety precautions? JMO

 

[MaryG12]

Thanks. I really wish I had an actual solution to the problem, but I don't see an easy fix unfortunately. I do think a reform in healthcare would aid tremendously and once America stops treating healthcare like a business and more as a basic right, that would surely be a step in the right direction.

RSBM

Totally with you there 100% and then some more. My own views on healthcare are not the most popular around.

One really interesting book which documents the history of medicine and healthcare since the Renaissance is "The Devil's Doctor" by Philip Ball. Paracelsus is the main subject of the book but Ball delves into medicine as practiced during that time period, how we got from A to B, why the practice of medicine changed, how modern healthcare is comparable to healthcare back then.

Didn't mean to go off topic here, but it is one of those books worth reading to understand the evolution of healthcare in the western world.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Great post, Tawny.

Action steps we as a nation can take to help alleviate (though not entirely eliminate) the problem:

1- Require registration. There is no current database of gun owners and which firearms they own. Having a national registry would help keep track of who owns what and who shouldn't have access to firearms. The problem is that there is this belief that if there's a registry, the govt can roll in an take them all away easier.

2- Insurance. This will cover gun owners if their gun is stolen and used in a crime or in an accidental shooting. Just as with car insurance, accidents make premiums go up, nobody wants that, so they avoid accidents as best they can (more likely to secure firearms away from children). No insurance? Fines, no access to ranges, etc. If your firearm is stolen, you report it immediately, just as you would your car.

3-NO PRIVATE SALES. As it stands, in many states, a private citizen has no responsibility to report a gun sale and has no obligation to ask a person their background. You can list your gun on gun sales websites and meet people whenever and wherever to sell a firearm.

4- Take domestic violence seriously and charge, indict, and convict properly. Currently, most domestic violence leads nowhere and even if it does, it's generally a misdemeanor. Domestic violence offenders are the number one cause of gun violence in our country and there is absolutely NOTHING preventing offenders from purchasing, owning, and possessing firearms. To compound this, children raised in a domestic violent household are more likely to commit gun violence themselves.

Obviously none of this will completely eliminate homicide, just as regulations on vehicles and speed limits doesn't prevent car accidents. However, these measures DO reduce the number of vehicle related deaths, and I believe measures similar will reduce the number of firearm related deaths.

All, JMO.

 

[K_Z]

Here's a novel idea. How about we focus on the CRIMINALS with the penalties, regulations, and restrictions, instead of penalizing the LAW ABIDING people who haven't done anything wrong? Might that not make kids under 12 a bit safer from firearm deaths? I think it would.

How about:

1. Take illegal possession of firearms much more seriously. Vastly increase the felony criminal penalties for illegally possessed guns, and make them mandatory.

2. Vastly increase criminal penalties for gun theft.

3. Ensure that gun theft and illegal gun possession are charged separately so as to multiply penalties

4. Vastly increase, and make mandatory, very long prison sentences for criminals convicted of using, or possessing, an illegally possessed gun in the commission of ANY crime. Require lifelong parole supervision for felons who have been convicted of gun crimes, including un-announced searches for illegally possessed guns.

5. Remove children from custody, and homes, where anyone has been charged or convicted of having illegally possessed guns, or convicted of gun crimes. Make it extremely difficult for any of these convicted felons to regain custody, and ensure long term mandatory social services supervision for anyone convicted of illegal gun possession who attempts to regain custody of children—including any children conceived in the future.

6. Pass laws to start state and local registries of criminals convicted of gun crimes, and make inclusion retroactive. Make the database available to anyone. Require notification of neighbors and schools when a convicted gun felon moves into a neighborhood. Prohibit gun felons from jobs involving children, and from living near schools and daycares, like convicted sex offenders. Require convicted gun felons to register every time they get a job, move, or apply for social services.

 

[animlzrule]

Action steps we as a nation can take to help alleviate (though not entirely eliminate) the problem:

1- Require registration. There is no current database of gun owners and which firearms they own. Having a national registry would help keep track of who owns what and who shouldn't have access to firearms. The problem is that there is this belief that if there's a registry, the govt can roll in an take them all away easier.

2- Insurance. This will cover gun owners if their gun is stolen and used in a crime or in an accidental shooting. Just as with car insurance, accidents make premiums go up, nobody wants that, so they avoid accidents as best they can (more likely to secure firearms away from children). No insurance? Fines, no access to ranges, etc. If your firearm is stolen, you report it immediately, just as you would your car.

3-NO PRIVATE SALES. As it stands, in many states, a private citizen has no responsibility to report a gun sale and has no obligation to ask a person their background. You can list your gun on gun sales websites and meet people whenever and wherever to sell a firearm.

4- Take domestic violence seriously and charge, indict, and convict properly. Currently, most domestic violence leads nowhere and even if it does, it's generally a misdemeanor. Domestic violence offenders are the number one cause of gun violence in our country and there is absolutely NOTHING preventing offenders from purchasing, owning, and possessing firearms. To compound this, children raised in a domestic violent household are more likely to commit gun violence themselves.

Obviously none of this will completely eliminate homicide, just as regulations on vehicles and speed limits doesn't prevent car accidents. However, these measures DO reduce the number of vehicle related deaths, and I believe measures similar will reduce the number of firearm related deaths.

All, JMO.

I would add, prosecuting the registered owner of a gun that is used in the shooting of an innocent, whether or not the registered owner is the one who pulled the trigger. I think it's the only way to make these "responsible gun owners" actually live up to their claims. If they knew they would be locked away if someone else ever gets ahold of their gun it might eventually make some people realize that gun ownership isn't worth all of the inherent dangers it entails. I think we might slowly but surely have some people rethink their cavalier attitude towards gun rights being more important that than the rights of innocent children and citizens. Make the consequences not worth the false sense of security and bravado that guns provide.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Jumping off K_Z's post.

Current federal laws (downloads pdf file — it's also attached to this post):

• Up to 10 years imprisonment for convicted felons to possess firearms.

• Up to life imprisonment for a felon to use a firearm to commit a drug felony or federal crime.

• Up to 10 years imprisonment for anyone to conceal, barter, sell, trade, etc., a stolen firearm.

• Up to 1 year imprisonment to transfer, sell or deliver a firearm to a juvenile.

• Up to 1 year imprisonment if gun licensee sells ammunition to anyone under 18, or firearm to anyone under 21.

• Law allows forfeiture of ammunition, firearms and explosives involved in criminal offenses.

• Firearms information for every firearm, even if only identified during a field interview or traffic stop, should be sent to ATF for tracing and possible connection to other criminal activity.​

...

Here's a link to the U.S. code, which spells out what's illegal (it's long and complicated). It also already has provisions against mentally incompetent, criminal drug abusers and addicts, etc. Interesting.

• Federal law already makes it illegal for anyone "adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a mental institution" to own a firearm.

• Likewise for anyone dishonorably discharged from military service.

• Likewise for anyone "who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802)"

• Likewise for anyone "who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year"

• And it appears that the language frees gun owners from most civil liability if their guns are stolen or used without their permission. (See "Liability for Use" section toward the very end.)​

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922

...

More sources:

Criminals steal more than 237,000 guns from legal American gun owners every year

New evidence confirms what gun rights advocates have said for a long time about crime: "All guns start out as legal guns," Fabio said in an interview. But a "huge number of them" move into illegal hands. "As a public-health person, I'd like to be able to figure out that path," he added. (snip) ...

"More than 30 percent of the guns that ended up at crime scenes had been stolen, according to Fabio's research. But more than 40 percent of those stolen guns weren't reported by the owners as stolen until after police contacted them when the gun was used in a crime." (rbbm)
​

...

Here's a novel idea. How about we focus on the CRIMINALS with the penalties, regulations, and restrictions, instead of penalizing the LAW ABIDING people who haven't done anything wrong? Might that not make kids under 12 a bit safer from firearm deaths? I think it would.

How about:

1. Take illegal possession of firearms much more seriously. Vastly increase the felony criminal penalties for illegally possessed guns, and make them mandatory.
2. Vastly increase criminal penalties for gun theft.
3. Ensure that gun theft and illegal gun possession are charged separately so as to multiply penalties
4. Vastly increase, and make mandatory, very long prison sentences for criminals convicted of using, or possessing, an illegally possessed gun in the commission of ANY crime. Require lifelong parole supervision for felons who have been convicted of gun crimes, including un-announced searches for illegally possessed guns.
5. Remove children from custody, and homes, where anyone has been charged or convicted of having illegally possessed guns, or convicted of gun crimes. Make it extremely difficult for any of these convicted felons to regain custody, and ensure long term mandatory social services supervision for anyone convicted of illegal gun possession who attempts to regain custody of children—including any children conceived in the future.
6. Pass laws to start state and local registries of criminals convicted of gun crimes, and make inclusion retroactive. Make the database available to anyone. Require notification of neighbors and schools when a convicted gun felon moves into a neighborhood. Prohibit gun felons from jobs involving children, and from living near schools and daycares, like convicted sex offenders. Require convicted gun felons to register every time they get a job, move, or apply for social services.

 

[Tawny]

Here's a novel idea. How about we focus on the CRIMINALS with the penalties, regulations, and restrictions, instead of penalizing the LAW ABIDING people who haven't done anything wrong? Might that not make kids under 12 a bit safer from firearm deaths? I think it would.

How about:

1. Take illegal possession of firearms much more seriously. Vastly increase the felony criminal penalties for illegally possessed guns, and make them mandatory.

2. Vastly increase criminal penalties for gun theft.

3. Ensure that gun theft and illegal gun possession are charged separately so as to multiply penalties

4. Vastly increase, and make mandatory, very long prison sentences for criminals convicted of using, or possessing, an illegally possessed gun in the commission of ANY crime. Require lifelong parole supervision for felons who have been convicted of gun crimes, including un-announced searches for illegally possessed guns.

5. Remove children from custody, and homes, where anyone has been charged or convicted of having illegally possessed guns, or convicted of gun crimes. Make it extremely difficult for any of these convicted felons to regain custody, and ensure long term mandatory social services supervision for anyone convicted of illegal gun possession who attempts to regain custody of children—including any children conceived in the future.

6. Pass laws to start state and local registries of criminals convicted of gun crimes, and make inclusion retroactive. Make the database available to anyone. Require notification of neighbors and schools when a convicted gun felon moves into a neighborhood. Prohibit gun felons from jobs involving children, and from living near schools and daycares, like convicted sex offenders. Require convicted gun felons to register every time they get a job, move, or apply for social services.

It seems most Americans are under the impression that all or most gun violence is perpetrated by people who have prior criminal records that would prevent them from owning firearms. The truth is, most gun violence stems from domestic violence, and that is not a crime that restricts firearm ownership.

So the above solutions does extremely little to alleviate the gun death problem in America.

 

[Woodland]

It seems most Americans are under the impression that all or most gun violence is perpetrated by people who have prior criminal records that would prevent them from owning firearms. The truth is, most gun violence stems from domestic violence, and that is not a crime that restricts firearm ownership.

So the above solutions does extremely little to alleviate the gun death problem in America.

The other issue left out here is imo, the negligence with gun owners that allows children and others to pick up their loaded gun and kill themselves or others. That seems to always be left out - yet is a big part of the problem.

American citizens are far to complacent on who can pick up their loaded gun - key word being loaded. Kids/toddlers are not loading the guns they fire - they are already loaded when they pick them up. There are an estimated 312 million guns currently in the US - 48% of the total number of guns in the world at this time - for 323.1 million people (2016).

Fwiw, not seeing that a verified professional in the field of health care or the law is attempting to sort out or offer solutions to the problem of guns killing/injuring children by the thousands or other innocent bystanders. I need, I want, the current law is, does not address nearly half the problem imo.

The gun deaths and threats in Canada are growing by the day - very worrisome imo. To stay quiet is to encourage the problem.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

How do we keep our legal guns safe enough so that they aren’t stolen to fuel the black market? I mean, it’s already a crime to own them, and it’s already an additional crime to USE a stolen firearm while commiting a crime.

So, yes, how do we better stop criminals from stealing our guns?

Here in the UK it's not hugely difficult to get a licence for a shotgun providing you can meet certain criteria, but part of the process of obtaining the licence is that you must show that you have secure storage for the weapons. This means a cabinet of an approved type in which the weapons and ammo must be stored whenever not in use and which must be bolted securely to a solid wall or the floor. The installed storage is inspected before the shotgun licence is granted. Each police force has a designated officer whose job it is to do the admin and inspections, and it's a condition of being granted a licence that the storage of the weapons can be inspected at any time by the police. A failed inspection usually means loss of the shotgun licence.

http://www.gdktrading.co.uk/gun-cabinets
https://www.safe.co.uk/Categories/shotgun-cabinets/1.html

That's OK for long guns, but perhaps a requirement for handguns to be either locked up or kept on the person at all times, so never left lying about, would also be sensible.

 

[Tawny]

The other issue left out here is imo, the negligence with gun owners that allows children and others to pick up their loaded gun and kill themselves or others. That seems to always be left out - yet is a big part of the problem.

American citizens are far to complacent on who can pick up their loaded gun - key word being loaded. Kids/toddlers are not loading the guns they fire - they are already loaded when they pick them up. There are an estimated 312 million guns currently in the US - 48% of the total number of guns in the world at this time - for 323.1 million people (2016).

Fwiw, not seeing that a verified professional in the field of health care or the law is attempting to sort out or offer solutions to the problem of guns killing/injuring children by the thousands or other innocent bystanders. I need, I want, the current law is, does not address nearly half the problem imo.

The gun deaths and threats in Canada are growing by the day - very worrisome imo. To stay quiet is to encourage the problem.

When tragedies like that happen, a child gains access to a loaded weapon and a death occurs as a result, the response tends to be "What a tragedy, that parent is suffering for the rest of their life" and that is the accepted consequence. While it IS a tragedy, there should be some kind of actual consequence. Risking the death of our children doesn't seem to be deterrent enough, because everybody believes THEY are the safest gun owner, THEIR child would never touch the gun. Members on this very site have said they keep loaded weapons right next to them while their children/grandchildren are in the home, assuring everyone they and the children are safe because the weapon is right there. Unless you literally hold the weapon on your person as you walk through the house, it's not secured, and the idea of carrying a gun throughout my house all day every day is just... unnecessary. It's baffling, tbh. JMO.

 

[PrairieWind]

It seems most Americans are under the impression that all or most gun violence is perpetrated by people who have prior criminal records that would prevent them from owning firearms. The truth is, most gun violence stems from domestic violence, and that is not a crime that restricts firearm ownership.

So the above solutions does extremely little to alleviate the gun death problem in America.

Actually, a conviction of any domestic violence, even misdemeanor, will result in prohibition of gun ownership or possession pursuant to the Lautenbeg amendment. There probably needs to be better education on this so that people know they can lose their gun rights for even pretty minor offenses.

 

[Ibiz]

Here's a novel idea. How about we focus on the CRIMINALS with the penalties, regulations, and restrictions, instead of penalizing the LAW ABIDING people who haven't done anything wrong? Might that not make kids under 12 a bit safer from firearm deaths?

This is a good idea. Let's work to get the millions of illegal weapons off the streets first.

Then worry about other stuff.