Since Sandy Hook, 1,000 kids under age 12 have died from guns

[TooCurious]

OK.

But a household can have stolen guns (impacts insurance), a domestic violence issue (impacts insurance and gun ownership, especially if legal gun owner lives with someone convicted of domestic violence), a firearm-related suicide annnnnnnnnnnd unintentional injury or death from a firearm.

You lose your gun license and become uninsurable. Then you break the law and go to jail or prison.


Just like someone can have a DUI, speeding ticket, driving without license, unpaid parking tickets resulting in car being impounded, and an at-fault accident.

Your logic is curious.

Love your logic, if someone steals your gun eventually you could end up in prison?!

The difference is driving a car and having a license to drive is a privilege and can be licensed, owning a gun is a right.

 

[TooCurious]

Another part of the problem is that the HOUSEHOLD can have firearms. So, the partner or family members of the offender can still legally own firearms. It's in their rights. Now consider that domestic violence offenders are manipulative and abusive, and you have a situation where they make their victims buy and "own" the firearms. And in most states, a conviction does not mean the offender has to turn in any firearms they own, they just can't buy more.

It's a very broken system built to have multiple points of failure. We can thank the NRA for all of this, IMO.

Wrong again, do you ever read or research laws before you tell people what they are or aren't? A convict can not live in a house where guns are present. Not only can they not own a gun, they can't be able to take physical control of a weapon in the house. By allowing a convict to live in the house they forfieted there right to own a gun. It's up to probation/parole to check these things out.

I knew by the name of the thread it would be fun to come in here and throw a few facts in where I knew they would be missing. You guys get your anti gun non facts all mixed up and then work each other into a frenzy. Why not just take a little time and research the issue you have or think you have, get all the facts? Don't be spoon fed by anyone, read it yourself from a reliable source. (Usually not the mainstream media) Please note some of your fellow poster are stating things as fact and then putting MOO or IMO at the end. Good bye friends, I am exiting the conversation and leaving you to the foaming, frothing madness that disinformation brings.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Oh, the irony.....

 

[PrairieWind]

Some clarification re guns and domestic violence laws

https://www.elitedaily.com/p/can-a-...ender-own-a-gun-the-reality-is-tricky-3233751

Ok, I started to read through that article and eventually quit. It is FULL of inaccuracies. It is illegal for one who is prohibited from possessing firearms to live in a home with firearms unless very specific conditions are met. This is considered "constructive possession" and is addressed in numerous federal court cases. The BATF will enforce this. Although I acknowledge it happens a lot. Second, states may indeed define domestic violence differently, but in the states I practice law in domestic violence covers not just married parties, but any family relationship, any dating relationships (opposite or same sex), any living together as if married, former spouses, etc. In fact in domestic violence court you frequently see same sex couples. Also, keep in mind, a person need not be convicted of domestic violence to lose gun rights. Once a person is CHARGED with DV criminally their rights are generally suspended. Or a civil order of a domestic violence protection order can suspend gun rights. What we need in this area are not new laws but better enforcement.

 

[human]

Ok, I started to read through that article and eventually quit. It is FULL of inaccuracies. It is illegal for one who is prohibited from possessing firearms to live in a home with firearms unless very specific conditions are met. This is considered "constructive possession" and is addressed in numerous federal court cases. The BATF will enforce this. Although I acknowledge it happens a lot. Second, states may indeed define domestic violence differently, but in the states I practice law in domestic violence covers not just married parties, but any family relationship, any dating relationships (opposite or same sex), any living together as if married, former spouses, etc. In fact in domestic violence court you frequently see same sex couples. Also, keep in mind, a person need not be convicted of domestic violence to lose gun rights. Once a person is CHARGED with DV criminally their rights are generally suspended. Or a civil order of a domestic violence protection order can suspend gun rights. What we need in this area are not new laws but better enforcement.

Um, did you read the article. Just one thing right now. Different states have different laws. It is true. They actually do.

 

[human]

Wrong again, do you ever read or research laws before you tell people what they are or aren't? A convict can not live in a house where guns are present. Not only can they not own a gun, they can't be able to take physical control of a weapon in the house. By allowing a convict to live in the house they forfieted there right to own a gun. It's up to probation/parole to check these things out.

I knew by the name of the thread it would be fun to come in here and throw a few facts in where I knew they would be missing. You guys get your anti gun non facts all mixed up and then work each other into a frenzy. Why not just take a little time and research the issue you have or think you have, get all the facts? Don't be spoon fed by anyone, read it yourself from a reliable source. (Usually not the mainstream media) Please note some of your fellow poster are stating things as fact and then putting MOO or IMO at the end. Good bye friends, I am exiting the conversation and leaving you to the foaming, frothing madness that disinformation brings.

Henry Law expains it more clearly. A felon can live in a home with a gun.

And, just a small correction . It is “cannot” not “can not”.

http://www.henrylawny.com/can-live-home-gun-im-felon/

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

You're confabulating the meaning and intent of my statements with your own.

:thinking:

But, eventually, yes. Enough types of violations or certain egregious violations could eventually end with jail or prison time.

People do things to "forfeit their right" to things like freedom and gun ownership. I bet you've heard of that phrase, especially since we're here together at Websleuths.

People all over the country lose their right to own and purchase firearms for a multitude of reasons. It happens every single day. It's longtime, well-established and thoroughly tested precedent, in fact.

Love your logic, if someone steals your gun eventually you could end up in prison?!

The difference is driving a car and having a license to drive is a privilege and can be licensed, owning a gun is a right.

 

[PrairieWind]

Um, did you read the article. Just one thing right now. Different states have different laws. It is true. They actually do.

Then apparently some states need to address their domestic violence laws. The Henry Law article you point to does not say felons can live in homes with firearms. But that is a prohibition against the felon, not the gun owner.
I came on this thread because it is an interesting and important subject and I wanted to help in the discussion of what some of the laws are. But this thread is not a discussion, its simply arguing, and I am not interested in running around in circles. I'll move on.

 

[human]

Then apparently some states need to address their domestic violence laws. The Henry Law article you point to does not say felons can live in homes with firearms. But that is a prohibition against the felon, not the gun owner.
I came on this thread because it is an interesting and important subject and I wanted to help in the discussion of what some of the laws are. But this thread is not a discussion, its simply arguing, and I am not interested in running around in circles. I'll move on.

Quote from Henry Law

Taking Precautions
While the safest route to avoiding criminal charges is for a felon and his or her housemates to avoid having a gun in the house altogether, the Second Amendment does protect the right of non-felons to own a gun and to protect themselves and so the law will allow them to do so. That said, doing so creates a high risk of prosecution and strict precautions should be taken to avoid the felon having possession or constructive possession of the firearm, such as keeping the gun in a locked safe (to which the felon does not have access) at all times the felon is present. It is best to speak with an experienced criminal defense attorney to determine what precautions are necessary to avoid state and federal criminal charges.

 

[human]

More info on domestic abusers. Children who see domestic violence are at great risk for many issues.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/domestic-abusers-guns_us_59bfeba2e4b0edff971df198

 

[human]

Here is state by state definitions of domestic violence. Some specifically address children.

http://www.ncjfcj.org/sites/default/files/chart-dv-state-definitions.pdf

 

[flourish]

I've lived with a felon on probation (not parole). Prior to them moving in, I met with the probation officer who asked me if I had firearms or weapons of any kind or alcohol in the house. He checked my fridge and freezer for same. Then when person arrived, the PO came over again and did the same thing. Then they put person on mail check in every month so person just completes a form and pays a fee every month. (Because person was deemed "low risk" for re-offending and drugs, alcohol, sex and weapons weren't involved in their felony).

However, they literally only looked in my fridge and freezer. They didn't go upstairs or downstairs, and were there for all of 10 minutes, if that. Point being I could have had an arsenal and speakeasy upstairs and a well-ventilated grow op downstairs and they wouldn't have seen a thing. (I have none of those things.)

Not that it really matters. It seems those who are supportive of no additional gun control could justify the deaths of all but two children in the US, as long as it was one of each gender, because, you know, there would still be two left to procreate and children's lives don't seem to matter if they interfere with perceived rights. The rights of people to not get shot are trumped by those who are dead set against any further regulation. There seems to be a mental block about how more regulation means "they gonna take my gun!" Which it doesn't. But stubborn is stubborn.

 

[Woodland]

Enjoying the swan songs.

From where I sit, it's clearly difficult to advocate/argue for no gun control and have empathy for the innocent children caught in the crossfire. One must make a choice.

Walking away is a choice - leaving/offering no solution to the problem. Jmo.

 

[human]

Here is an article that talks about children who are or were survivors of gun violence

https://medium.com/@hollyefisherdexter/the-unseen-victims-of-gun-violence-7a0fe7f123e6

Just a bit of the article———

Eddie Weingart was a voice for the voiceless. He was a powerful activist for ending gun violence, and an outspoken advocate for LGBTQ rights. He was a fixture in Washington DC, speaking at rallies and marches. A massage therapist by trade, Eddie dedicated his life to healing others, and was a positive, uplifting, supportive friend who was absolutely beloved by all who knew him. On January 11th, Eddie took his own life. He did not use a gun, but Eddie was a victim of gun violence. He is just one of the many casualties the media doesn’t cover.
Eddie was only a toddler when he witnessed his stepfather shoot and kill his mother. Eddie’s stepfather then put the barrel of the gun in little Eddie’s mouth and pulled the trigger twice, but the gun jammed. Eddie remembered sitting beside his mother’s lifeless body as her blood pooled and soaked into his diaper. All his life, he said he could still remember the metallic smell of her blood.
Eddie had been in and out of therapy since he was a child. He worked hard to recover from the PTSD of gun violence, and devoted his life to being of service and healing others, but some wounds are just too deep to heal. I know this from experience.
Forty years ago, my seven-year-old brother was shot in the head by a neighborhood teen, playing with his father’s gun. I held my brother in my arms as my mother frantically ran red lights all the way to the hospital. His eyes fluttered, his body spasmed and he lost consciousness. My arms were covered in my brother’s blood. I was fourteen.
My brother survived, but he lives with traumatic brain injury and severe PTSD. The bullet is still in his brain. He is prone to emotional breakdowns and spontaneous rages. This October, we had to hospitalize him when he became suicidal. Forty years later, we are still trying to save his life. My brother is yet another of the unseen victims of gun violence.

 

[Tawny]

Wrong again, do you ever read or research laws before you tell people what they are or aren't? A convict can not live in a house where guns are present. Not only can they not own a gun, they can't be able to take physical control of a weapon in the house. By allowing a convict to live in the house they forfieted there right to own a gun. It's up to probation/parole to check these things out.

I knew by the name of the thread it would be fun to come in here and throw a few facts in where I knew they would be missing. You guys get your anti gun non facts all mixed up and then work each other into a frenzy. Why not just take a little time and research the issue you have or think you have, get all the facts? Don't be spoon fed by anyone, read it yourself from a reliable source. (Usually not the mainstream media) Please note some of your fellow poster are stating things as fact and then putting MOO or IMO at the end. Good bye friends, I am exiting the conversation and leaving you to the foaming, frothing madness that disinformation brings.

Henry Law expains it more clearly. A felon can live in a home with a gun.

And, just a small correction . It is “cannot” not “can not”.

http://www.henrylawny.com/can-live-home-gun-im-felon/

Thank you human. Noticed no links were provided in the snarky reply to me.

 

[TooCurious]

Thank you human. Noticed no links were provided in the snarky reply to me.

Just can't help myself sometimes so I will reply. The link you thanked Human for states specifically that they can be convicted of possession if someone else in the home has a weapon, so I didn't think I needed to post the same link......did either of you read the article past the 1st paragraph? Yes, a person can buy a gun if a felon lives in the home BUT, the owner of the gun and the felon can be (and should be) prosecuted. Back to probation and parole doing a better job of enforcement and checking home for guns. Once the felon has entered the home, while not technically surrendering your second amendment rights you open yourself for prosecution if you exercise those rights and keep the weapon in the home. I have copied and pasted the paragraph in the link that was already provided so it will be easier to find. Please read below

"You Can Be Convicted of Constructive Possession
Again, possession is not the same as ownership, and you can be convicted for possession of a firearm as a felon if you exert control over the firearm, such as by carrying it with you or shooting it. But simply avoiding contact with the gun itself is not enough to keep you in the clear, and you may face possession charges where you never actually exerted control if you are found to have had constructive possession of the firearm.

In general, courts can find that a felon had constructive possession of a firearm where:

The felon knew that the firearm was in the home; and
Had the ability and opportunity to exert control over the firearm
Thus, if your wife keeps a gun unlocked in her nightstand, and you know it is there, a prosecutor may well charge you with possession of the firearm even if you never touched the gun."

You guys read the part you wanted and skipped over the part that proves you are wrong.

http://www.henrylawny.com/can-live-home-gun-im-felon/

 

[Tawny]

Sure. And good luck with enacting and enforcing a requirement for probation and parole officers doing thorough searches of every convict's home.

 

[Ibiz]

Are you guys suggesting that the police start a program of random searches of people's homes ?

Would be in the name of our safety?

 

[Tawny]

Are you guys suggesting that the police start a program of random searches of people's homes ?

Would be in the name of our safety?

Not sure who you're talking to but I am definitely not advocating for searching homes of random people. It's a sticky situation when people who have a constitutional right to own firearms live with a convicted felon.

 

[KaaBoom]

Are you guys suggesting that the police start a program of random searches of people's homes ?

Would be in the name of our safety?

You do realize that they can and do, randomly search the homes of people on probation and parole all the time, right? There is no need to start a new program for that. That is a condition of probation and parole.