Sleuthing Cindy's Depo & Baez Objections to Sealed Items

[flourish]

Well, the chances they have in finding Caylee's bio dad are about as good as finding Zanny. (mental picture of KC on the Maury P show for 2nd & 3rd time with a new set of 5-6 potential donors) :waitasec:

LOL, yeah, I got thinking about that after seeing Jesse G on 48 hours last weekend. Maury...:laugh:

I also wonder if Caylee's bio dad even knows/knew he was Caylee's bio dad.

 

[Jolynna]

I guess the band aid is the one on the list that makes me most suspicious. How could anyone expect the Anthony household to have one of Caylee's used band aids? How long had she been missing at this point?

A straw or band-aid is something you'd expect to find in a trash can. Messy families might not faithfully empty every trash can in the house in a month's time.

I'm not sure the list was specific to Caylee. Maybe it is a list of items that could have a missing child's DNA and it was being used for brainstorming.

 

[celticthyme]

LOL, yeah, I got thinking about that after seeing Jesse G on 48 hours last weekend. Maury...:laugh:

I also wonder if Caylee's bio dad even knows/knew he was Caylee's bio dad.

Given Casey's proclivity for having multiple boyfriends/sexual partners at the same time, which seems perfectly normal to the Anthony's I'd be amazed if even casey knew for sure.

That being said, Cindy forwarded a story in her deposition about an Erik Baker, who supposedly came into town briefly on vacation as Caylee's Father. Casey herself told LE that the father was killed in an auto accident and that person is supposedly Jesus Ortiz. She told her friend M Calbresse that the father was Josh someone, a one night stand,
who worked with her at Universal

So there we go, And the winner is??????????????

 

[capps]

Given Casey's proclivity for having multiple boyfriends/sexual partners at the same time, which seems perfectly normal to the Anthony's I'd be amazed if even casey knew for sure.

That being said, Cindy forwarded a story in her deposition about an Erik Baker, who supposedly came into town briefly on vacation as Caylee's Father. Casey herself told LE that the father was killed in an auto accident and that person is supposedly Jesus Ortiz. ,
who worked with her at Universal.

So there we go, And the winner is??????????????

Well,we can forget Josh who worked with her at Universal.

 

[countzero]

CZ,

The only thing CA mentioned in her depo is her hair and the toothbrush, blanket and pillow of Caylee's. I did not understand how those samples and the photo could both be labeled 22H.

Exactly. I went back over those as well and I cannot account for the other three items. Unless there were two each of the hair samples and only one each of the swab samples. The photo could be of any item, not necessarily a piece of paper, if ya know what I mean. I am not sure why an exhibit would be a photo of a piece of paper rather than a copy of the paper. They were extremely vague in it's physical description. Still the number aren't adding up for Item 22A-22H. Unless it's a written error. Guess we will know when the SAO gives us the answer.

The pillow saliva and chewing gum might have belonged to Caylee.

Thanks for looking. cz

 

[Just Jayla]

Interesting that CA refused to give Tim M anything of Caylee's when he was searching. That would have provided the dogs with her scent. The reason...CA was not interested in anyone assisting if they were not going to look for an "alive" Caylee.

Yes, that's what she says, but she is full of it:

GA-knew Caylee was dead from the get-go, see his LE interviews. He even narrowed down the smell in the car when he said it could not be trash, suggested to the cops that KC could have killed Caylee, but he did not want to believe it.

CA-Also believed Caylee was dead, maybe not as relenting as GA. She leaves a message on LE voicemail stating "KC could not have done this alone," and per LA, she knew DC went down to Suburban to look for a dead Caylee.

LA-Thought his parents really were trying to believe Caylee was alive, and that they were all going to have positive group-think. Mom and dad lied to him about their thoughts, and he felt betrayed by this, particularly DC going down to Suburban (see LA's SA depo). He is now open to knowing KC did it, but I'm not sure what he really thinks.

 

[Macushla]

Just caught up on the thread - thanks for posting the pictures of the exhibits. My question is this: These are not the 'sealed' items that caused the discussion, right? These items were attached to the depo, so they can't be what JB was objecting to because they agreed to not enter that particular item into the depo. At least that was my understanding from reading. Now I am wondering if SA put those items in anyway - but I have a hard time believing that. So please for one very tired brain here, could someone tell me definitively - are these lists the items JB wanted kept out?

 

[milliac]

All of this has to do with gathering DNA. The objects are places one could expect to find DNA. The sterile swab would be needed to gather the DNA from let's say the mother or any person that was willing providing their DNA. You swab the inside of the cheek. It's called a buccal swab. You could then store the swab in a regular envelope and seal it with scotch tape. Then you would store it at room temperature until you could send it off to be analyzed.

This could have been a list from Baez or with that crazy family who knows. It could have even been a list that Cindy wrote up as pointers to Casey so that she could inconspicously gather DNA from any possible baby daddy. So they could send it off for testing. As a matter of fact she wouldn't even need the daddy, she could gather something from one of the daddy's parents to compare against or if the possible dad had other kids she could get one of the above listed objects from the other kid to compare against as well.

I still think there is something else sealed that had to do with conversation around these lists that we have yet to see.

Very interesting... Thanks was not enough.

 

[Muzikman]

Just caught up on the thread - thanks for posting the pictures of the exhibits. My question is this: These are not the 'sealed' items that caused the discussion, right? These items were attached to the depo, so they can't be what JB was objecting to because they agreed to not enter that particular item into the depo. At least that was my understanding from reading. Now I am wondering if SA put those items in anyway - but I have a hard time believing that. So please for one very tired brain here, could someone tell me definitively - are these lists the items JB wanted kept out?

That's the big question. I tend to think they are what he was objecting to, as they are the right exhibit numbers for what they showed Cindy.

Maybe Baez did not file a motion to object and have them sealed? Or Judge S said off the record there's no way they should be sealed?

I'd like to know a definitive answer to this too.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I can think of ways it would be helpful. But at the same time we're talking about something the defense has obviously gotten sealed, so apparently they don't want it out.

I went through the 1405 pages of docs released on Oct. 9, 2009 to no avail a couple days ago. Recently I remember running across the DNA sample evidence again where there was an extra line about keeping something sealed. It may have been the batch right before Oct 9 but it was recently. I'm hesitant to bring this up because I can't find it.
It was the same evidence I have seen before regarding outruling Lee as the bio but it had additional info written along with it this time.
Anyone else notice something like this?

 

[salvarenga]

I should be sleeping but can't because I can't get the dna thoughts out of my head. Was just doing some Googling and ran across an old news article that stated that the MEs office still had some blood samples on file for Jesus Ortiz. Is it known as to whether or not the State ever ran DNA tests on those samples to see if he could be the father?

 

[Macushla]

Ok, I went back and read the relevant pages one more time. JB first objects to the pictures of the two lists. They all go back and forth and then Ashton suggests that CA limit her answers SIMPLY to the physical items because the question is what items were given as opposed to WHY (paraprhased). Cownay then asks JN "Does that solve your problem?" Ashton clarifies: Identify items and limit it to that - JB says OK.

LDB goes on asking about toothbrush, etc. THEN she starts to ask her whether or not she saw KC bringing any photos, videos, etc. to JB's office. THAT is when JB jumps in again and says, you are bringing up something that has been sealed. LDB says No idea what you are talking about, Ashton blurts Photos and the discussion is on.

Sorry if this is a rehash of things already talked about, but it helped me get it all sraight in my head. So exhibits 22 and 23 are the lists that JB allowed to be put into the depo because CA just gave a list of items and did not explain why they were given.

The 'sealed' items (and I think we know they are photos or perhaps just one photo, thanks to Ashton) is/are the item that was disputed and it did NOT get attached at the end of the depo.

At least this is my take after reading that darn section over and over and over. So I am back to my original theory - not allowed to be included in the depo are photo(s) that somehow are connected with the in camera discussion over how the defense is being funded. JB does NOT want this info out because it will be extremely prejudicial (and rightly so) to his client.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it! :snooty:

 

[BeanE]

I understand why JB would not want anything related to selling Caylee's pics/vids to pay him and the rest of the defense team released. So I'm putting that aside.

It's JB objecting to something related to those DNA lists that has me very curious. So... putting aside whether or not anything is sealed, and thinking just about what related to DNA would make JB so excited... in other words, what could DNA confirm, that we have not seen confirmed elsewhere, that would damage the defense.

The 'Mom & baby' written on the list caught my eye. That led me to thinking about hair. Hair with death bands. And how that comes down to the hair being from mom *or* baby, and we know that Casey is the one who is alive, so the hair with death band has to have come from Caylee. Okay.

Could something that the defense tested have provided further confirmation that Caylee was deceased? For example, could a hair on the comb or pillowcase on the list of things KC gave JB *also* have had Caylee's hair with a death band? JB definitely would not want that getting out. Caylee's hair with death band coming from her bedroom would = not good.

Keeping that thought in mind, if the defense's DNA testing came up with something like that, would the prosecution be entitled legally in any way to that info? Or would it not be admissible in court because it was found by the defense versus by LE?

Hope I'm making sense with what I'm thinking about here.

ETA: if it wasn't admissible for the prosecution, would it become admissible if Cindy had talked about it in the depo thus opening the door to make it admissible?

 

[BeanE]

When the SAs are questioning in all depositions, they ask questions to get background/history/context on the record, leading up to the 'meatier' questions. With this in mind, I just noticed that the question directly before the Exhibit 22 presentation to Cindy is whether Cindy has ever seen pics of Caylee's remains site.

That's very interesting. Does something on either DNA list relate to something found at Caylee's remains site?

KC seems, to me, to be unable to resist, probably subconsciously, mentioning things related to Caylee's murder. For example, her specificity in saying she headed back to Sawgrass at 5pm (tells me Caylee was dead by then), saying that Caylee talked about her shoes in the phone call that never took place (Caylee's shoes have not yet been found).

On the other hand, that could just be sloppiness/laziness/not caring on KC's part. For example, remember how she paraded around in the media wearing the white sunglasses she'd stolen from Target?

With this in mind, could KC have again been subconsciously unable to resist - or just been sloppy/lazy about - turning over to JB something related to Caylee's murder/remains site?

I'm off to check it out...

ETA: looking at the list now of what KC gave JB and what's jumping out at me are the samples of Caylee's hair from 'bed' (doesn't say whose bed), the medicine dropper, and the medicine cup.

Question: this is a real long shot, but could it possibly be that there is some evidence the prosecution found in a picture that was sold to the media, but they can't mention the evidence because of the sealing of how the defense is being paid?

Another ETA: I thought it said 'beige plain top sheet' but it says 'beige POOH top sheet'. Hmmm... does this sheet match the Pooh blanket Caylee's body was wrapped in??

 

[BeanE]

Beige Pooh sheet (classic Pooh) from... Target...

http://www.target.com/Classic-Pooh-...cerank&searchPage=1&field_keywords=pooh sheet

Pooh blanket Caylee was wrapped in:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4310789&postcount=365"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Sleuthing Cindy's Depo & Baez Objections to Sealed Items[/ame]

Trying to find more description of this blanket to see if it's 'Classic' Pooh, if it's beige, if it matches the sheet, etc.

Pooh blanket in doc dump of Wed Jan 21 2009. Still looking for specific description.

 

[salvarenga]

I had some more thoughts about the list that is not in Casey's handwriting. The 2 items on the top right hand side of the page (pillowcase and chewing gum) have a squiggly line drawn down kind of in a reference to "Mom". This could have been for Cindy. Like just in case Cindy would not willingly give Casey a DNA sample for Jose, then Casey could check her pillow case for hair or bring him a pillow case that Cindy slept on or bring him a piece of chewing gum that Cindy had discarded. We all know she LOVES to chew gum.

 

[LambChop]

Or, could the hair that was Caylee's from her bed have shown signs of Chloroform when JB had it tested? Didn't Baden's husband say on GR's program that the hair tested showed signs of chloroform. Maybe it was the defense's testing that revealed the chloroform? Seems strange that would be a big misstatement by Baden. That would also account for the fact that defense has NOT turned over any evidence findings they have on any testing they have done as yet and don't have to do so until February.

Also CA said she never called KC to bring Caylee home during the period KC was staying overnight at the Glenwood Apartments during April/May of 08. Sometime during the night Caylee disappeared from the bed KC was sharing with her boyfriend. KC claimed her mother called and wanted Caylee home. Could KC have drugged her and put her in the trunk because she wanted Caylee out of the way? I would think CA would remember that because KC clearly would not have been there in the morning when Caylee would have gotten up.

 

[BeanE]

Okay. The ME says the Pooh blanket has Piglet on Pooh's back. Found this at target. Blanket is pink.

http://www.target.com/Classic-Pooh-...chPage=1&field_keywords=classic pooh applique

It's classic Pooh.

 

[salvarenga]

Okay. The ME says the Pooh blanket has Piglet on Pooh's back. Found this at target. Blanket is pink.

http://www.target.com/Classic-Pooh-...chPage=1&field_keywords=classic pooh applique

It's classic Pooh.

I don't think that's it. I tried playing with the picture, adjusting the color, shadows, etc. It looks like there are multiple pooh images on the blanket.

 

[Novice Seeker]

I admit, after reading the A's depositions, my mind is way overloaded on their depositions. The part that has me the most confused pertains to the episode during Cindy's deposition where Baez starts stuttering his objections insulations and attempts to take over the deposition.

Just from reading those pages it appears that someone other than the family's handwriting is on that exhibit. The longer Cindy comments the more rudder Baez gets. From that episode it leaves us to question what was KC collecting in the backpack that she took to Baez's office. Which in my mind suggests how some of those legal bills have been paid. But, didn't Baez stand before Judge Strickland and swear as an officer of the court that he was not brokering photos or items of KC's? Because, if he was then KC could have a door to come back and appeal. Yet, Judge Strickland in his ruling that he reviewed the 2 contracts and found no conflict of interest. Let's not forget that Baez had set up the transaction that involved ABC and the money which was exchanged.

So, if there is evidence that Baez, his handwriting requesting particular items and the ABC deal, how can Judge Strickland rule that there has been no conflict of interest?

Novice Seeker