So who does Aphrodite Jones think is the killer is?

[Agatha_C]

Wonderful. The facts surrounding the crime prove the Ramsey's were railroaded while real leads were ignored. But yeah go ahead and poke the empty hornets nest. You act like LE never even looked at the Ramsey's.

(my bold)

And you came to that conclusion how? Your basing this opinion on this one post or the culmination of them all? Roy, I was once IDI as Ive stated several times in past posts. In fact I was IDI for many years. I changed my opinion to RDI long before I joined this site.

I find it funny that you can judge me by one post and give the Rs so much credit after years of lies and BS. Ask yourself this, why is the hornets nest empty, the murderer hasnt been found? Why arent the hornets angry and buzzing? Are they in the news demanding something be done? Is there a reward being offered? Why wasnt their book more about solving the crime than clearing their own name? Maybe you should be more worried about those facts then my little ole post.

I respect your right to believe the Rs and their spin, can you try to respect my right, too not believe them?

 

[Agatha_C]

Wrong! They went so far as to implicate their involvement in the media as well as take their case in front of a Grand Jury. The Ramsey lawyers had no say so on whether they were taken to trial or not. If you want to blame the Ramsey's or their lawyers for them not spending a minute in jail, I think you may want to re-evaluate your thinking. Even now, the new DA or LE could bring a case against a Ramsey but they don't.

Roy, the Rs also had things leaked to the media, lets not forget that please. LS, stole crime scene photos and then, shared them on TV against LEs wishes. IDI, cant have it both ways. You cant condemn one and condone another for doing the same thing.

I personally, dislike that any of them let things leak (LE, DA and R spin team. as it all got in the way of justice for that baby... How can IDI not be a little upset with the Rs for all that they did in the hindering of the investigation... I see RDI hold LE and the DA accountable for many of things that went wrong and yet, not one IDI sees anything the Rs did wrong..... Hypocrisy at its best!

 

[Roy23]

Roy, the Rs also had things leaked to the media, lets not forget that please. LS, stole crime scene photos and then, shared them on TV against LEs wishes. IDI, cant have it both ways. You cant condemn one and condone another for doing the same thing.

I personally, dislike that any of them let things leak (LE, DA and R spin team. as it all got in the way of justice for that baby... How can IDI not be a little upset with the Rs for all that they did in the hindering of the investigation... I see RDI hold LE and the DA accountable for many of things that went wrong and yet, not one IDI sees anything the Rs did wrong..... Hypocrisy at its best!

No reason to be so upset. I never once said the Ramsey's have done everything right. The Ramsey's felt like they needed lawyers and I believe the way things were leaking I do not blame them. The Ramsey's should not be blamed for every tactic their lawyers used in my opinion. Rightly or Wrongly LE and the DA's office were extemely unprofessional and many had tunnel vision. They bungled the crime scene as well. It is a lawyers job to protect their clients and they did so.

But like I said, to this day there is nothing to stop LE from arresting at least John Ramsey. RDI and IDI is always gonna go back to the DNA. The investigators working this case have all the evidence and they can choose to do with it what they want. I am all for a good conspiricy theory but all the government figures have changed and none of them yet have arrested a Ramsey. It is my belief they have moved onto the intruder theory and much more DNA exists that we know. Mary Lacy only gave enough info to send the message to the world that the Ramsey's were innocent.

I don't care that the new DA has said A Ramsey could still be under the umbrella. It is probably a good thing. But I do believe that a Ramsey did NOT perform the act of killing. The investigation has told us that but nobody is really listening to it. I have heard most of Super Dave's and Cynic's explanations on the DNA. But not once have I heard a party in this investigation demean the evidence in a long long time. I care about this case and I want them to find the killer or killers. But I am listening to the evidence, using my judgement and common sense. It tells me something different than most here. If they believe a Ramsey did it, then roll the dice and take a shot. I don't think they believe that anymore, though.

 

[Agatha_C]

Roy,

I wasn't upset. I respect your opinion even if I dont agree. I guess you could say this is a case of You say tomato, I say tomahto.

I dont think anyone is truly working this case any longer and to be honest I dont think anyone has worked this case for a very long time now... Not LE, the DA or the Rs/Ps and shame on all of them, especially the victims family...

Tell me something Roy, if ML as you believe, had so much more DNA then we were told of, why hasnt an intruder been caught yet?

Oh, and Roy, thank you for the courteous reply. I love nothing more then good debate with worthy opponents....

 

[Agatha_C]

Roy, one more thing (LOL), if this is a DNA case, why didn't the Intruder leave his/her DNA on the RN, the garotte, the blanket, in or outside of her little body, or her room, namely the bed? Or does this fall under the DNA you think we weren't told about? Just curious to know your opinion as we all know these things were tested early in the investigation.

 

[Roy23]

Roy,

I wasn't upset. I respect your opinion even if I dont agree. I guess you could say this is a case of You say tomato, I say tomahto.

I dont think anyone is truly working this case any longer and to be honest I dont think anyone has worked this case for a very long time now... Not LE, the DA or the Rs/Ps and shame on all of them, especially the victims family...

Tell me something Roy, if ML as you believe, had so much more DNA then we were told of, why hasnt an intruder been caught yet?

Oh, and Roy, thank you for the courteous reply. I love nothing more then good debate with worthy opponents....

AC,

I believe that they are not in Codis. I believe they are still looking at the case and the answer is there. I don't just think ML has more evidence but the investigator's in charge have it. They are not going to tell the public nor the killer all that they have. And I certainly hope they continue testing but more importantly do actual investigating.

The victims family has no right investigating this crime. Only a few are privy to all the evidence. This falls on them and I am positive that they are going to solve it. There is too much information about this case as it is for the public to see. Most of it contradicts itself. There is nothing on this website or the interwebs that proves who murdered that girl. Anyone could make a case on who did it but another piece of information is out there to contradict it. The experts seem to say that DNA is the turning point in the investigation. Who am I to tell the men and women with all the evidence that they are full of it?

Read my signature line below. This quote is from Mark Beckner of the police Department. He was a strong RDI. If you believe what he says then it should become pretty clear the status of this case

 

[joeskidbeck]

Roy, I agree with you and Mark Beckner, but has it occured to you that he may have chosen his words very carefully when he spoke about the DNA? What if the DNA owner is identified and could not possibly be JB's killer? It could possibly be the event that would cause JR's arrest. I don't believe this for one moment but after 15 years I guess anything is possible. I would also like to see DNA testing done on a couple of young men that were family friends in those days. Two very specifically. It has never been mentioned if they were tested or not but I'm thinking this case could move forward very quickly if it were done. I won't mention any names here but one was the son of family friends and the other was an exchange student who was staying with friends at the time. I really don't expect it to happen but one can dream!

 

[Roy23]

Roy, I agree with you and Mark Beckner, but has it occured to you that he may have chosen his words very carefully when he spoke about the DNA? What if the DNA owner is identified and could not possibly be JB's killer? It could possibly be the event that would cause JR's arrest. I don't believe this for one moment but after 15 years I guess anything is possible. I would also like to see DNA testing done on a couple of young men that were family friends in those days. Two very specifically. It has never been mentioned if they were tested or not but I'm thinking this case could move forward very quickly if it were done. I won't mention any names here but one was the son of family friends and the other was an exchange student who was staying with friends at the time. I really don't expect it to happen but one can dream!

Wow!

It has been so long since I have had anyone even entertain the statement made by Beckner that I am excited. And it has occured to me. Now I do believe from other statements that someone else physically killed that JBR but I can go with Beckner choosing his words carefully. A lot of people criticize touch DNA and trust me, I get it. But I personally think touch DNA is HUGE in this case since I believe they have another form of DNA to compare it to. And it is only magnified by the fact that they can't find an innocent source to match it to.

They hit gold on the areas that they tested. And until LE tells me why I shouldn't rely on that, I am going to.

 

[BBB167893]

Wonderful. The facts surrounding the crime prove the Ramsey's were railroaded while real leads were ignored.

You must be looking at a different case than I am! Either that, or you picked a really lousy time to develop a sense of humor.

But yeah go ahead and poke the empty hornets nest. You act like LE never even looked at the Ramsey's.

Depends on which LE you're talking about!

 

[Roy23]

You must be looking at a different case than I am! Either that, or you picked a really lousy time to develop a sense of humor.



Depends on which LE you're talking about!

Yay!

It's a bird, no it's a plane, no It's Super Dave coming to derail my civil conversations.

 

[BBB167893]

I'm sorry, Roy but I cannot see where or how the Ramsey's were railroaded. Did either of them spend one moment in jail? No, they did not. The only thing that harmed the Ramseys was all the money they paid their high priced lawyers and investigators to keep them out of jail. Maybe I could understand all the pity for them if they had been tried, convicted, and sent to prison for their daughter's death, but the sad fact is that nobody was ever even tried for it and that can be laid at the Ramsey's feet due to all their hedging and red herrings. The only pity I feel for them is because of the loss of their daughter but that didn't seem to keep them down very long. For the life of me I can't understand all the pity IDI heaps on the Ramseys. IMO they were very fortunate because if anyone else (meaning anyone without their kind of money) had been in this situation, you can bet that one or both the parents would be in prison.

What she said!

I'm through listening to these sob stories about the poor Ramseys. I'd much rather hear about the REAL victim, JonBenet.

 

[BBB167893]

Wrong! They went so far as to implicate their involvement in the media as well as take their case in front of a Grand Jury.

What's your point? I'm serious! What IS your point? You always mention how they "took" their case to a Grand Jury, as if you just EXPECT us to forget that the DA's office had to be DRAGGED kicking and screaming into just CALLING one and then did everything they could to make sure it didn't go anywhere. They'd done it before.

The Ramsey lawyers had no say so on whether they were taken to trial or not. If you want to blame the Ramsey's or their lawyers for them not spending a minute in jail, I think you may want to re-evaluate your thinking. Even now, the new DA or LE could bring a case against a Ramsey but they don't.

In case you haven't NOTICED, that's precisely what has us so upset!

 

[BBB167893]

(my bold)

And you came to that conclusion how? Your basing this opinion on this one post or the culmination of them all? Roy, I was once IDI as Ive stated several times in past posts. In fact I was IDI for many years. I changed my opinion to RDI long before I joined this site.

Isn't that an odd thing!

I find it funny that you can judge me by one post and give the Rs so much credit after years of lies and BS. Ask yourself this, why is the hornets nest empty, the murderer hasnt been found? Why arent the hornets angry and buzzing? Are they in the news demanding something be done? Is there a reward being offered? Why wasnt their book more about solving the crime than clearing their own name? Maybe you should be more worried about those facts then my little ole post.

Yeah, he SHOULD be! But I don't think he will!

I respect your right to believe the Rs and their spin, can you try to respect my right, too not believe them?

Get him, Agatha! Just leave some meat on the bones for me!

 

[Agatha_C]

What's your point? I'm serious! What IS your point? You always mention how they "took" their case to a Grand Jury, as if you just EXPECT us to forget that the DA's office had to be DRAGGED kicking and screaming into just CALLING one and then did everything they could to make sure it didn't go anywhere. They'd done it before.



In case you haven't NOTICED, that's precisely what has us so upset!

Ands thats the damn truth right there in bold!!!!!!!

 

[joeskidbeck]

I gotta wonder what are JR's thoughts on the DNA? He must be thinking he is the luckiest man alive; however, if he is still in the loop with the da's office (and I seriously doubt that) he may know whether or not they have other items with this same DNA. So, he could consider himself extremely lucky or he could be waiting for the other shoe to drop. Please know that it is not my desire for the R's to be guilty,but from all the years I've spent studying this case (as both RDI and IDI) it is obvious to me that at the very least, they are complicit in this crime and at the worst, they were the killers of their child. Their actions have caused this mess and I'm not giving anyone in Boulder a pass because they were guilty of treating the Ramseys with kid gloves and were very afraid of their clout. Anyway, anyone who believes in Karma knows that every dog has his day and JR's has to be just around the corner.

 

[Agatha_C]

Roy, the Rs should have been involved and should still be involved in finding the killer of their child (I know PR cant now, but she could have before.

What happened to the reward they offered, all parents of murdered children have and keep a reward posted until the murderer is found and the Rs didnt.

Why hasnt anyone from the R camp, especially the family demanded more from LE or the DA? This I dont understand. John Walsh, stayed at the police department and in the public eye, demanding and pushing for justice. Who in JBRs family has or is doing this for their loved one. Perhaps they are afraid that the truth would be found and they would owe that apology JR mentioned in his 1998 interviews...

 

[BBB167893]

No reason to be so upset.

There's PLENTY of reasons to be upset! That's why I wrote the damn book in the first place!

But like I said, to this day there is nothing to stop LE from arresting at least John Ramsey.

Actually, there IS. I've talked about it MANY, MANY times. It doesn't seem to do me any good, though.

I will say this for you, though: at least you recognize that they had probable cause. Some IDIs won't even acknowledge THAT.

I have heard most of Super Dave's and Cynic's explanations on the DNA.

Could have fooled me, pilgrim! I don't get the feeling that you have. Maybe it's just me.

If they believe a Ramsey did it, then roll the dice and take a shot.

I think if you ask around, you'll find that if this had been anyplace OTHER than Boulder, they very well might have.

I'm glad you decided to broadcast over the PA system. (Ain't that right, beck?? Wink wink!)

 

[BBB167893]

Roy, I agree with you and Mark Beckner, but has it occured to you that he may have chosen his words very carefully when he spoke about the DNA?

That's what Trip DeMuth said, too. He noticed that Beckner was very careful NOT to say that this clears the Ramseys.

 

[Agatha_C]

Oh, Roy, come out come out where ever you are...LOL!

 

[joeskidbeck]

Hey guys, going back to the title of this thread, has anyone noticed that there was a thread here at WS way back in 2004, about Ms Jones? You can see it here:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15640"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
It seems as though we are not the first sleuthers here who recognized her for what she is! And judging by the comments there, we have been way too nice to her.
IMO: She leans to the side that offers her money and book rights. Poor JonBenet, daddy had all the money and doesn't seem to care who killed her.