So who does Aphrodite Jones think is the killer is?

[joeskidbeck]

And you know what? Even after that there will still be IDIs saying BR made it all up for the money.

 

[Agatha_C]

They can't prosecute a suspect AC. If any information came from them or their lawyers it would ultimately be worthless. Do you think the R lawyers have the DNA sequence that LE has. H### no they don't.

Your right Roy, but neither did they find valid proof of an intruder. What ever they found could be easily explained.. JR admits that he broke the window. The boot print could have been put there by BR or FWJ and or LE. The scuff mark on the wall, come on, the kids played in there and you know how boys are. The TDNA, could have been placed there months before she died or years after.

Its the other evidence that points to Rs that is not that easily explained....

 

[Roy23]

Oh I know very well this case will never go to trial, dna or no dna. The only hope we have of knowing what happened that night is that after JR's death, BR needs money enough to write a tell all.

Well Joe, I disagree.

This is why I don't come here much anymore. It always ends the same. I thought you believed in Mark Beckner's statement. But all you guys do is through out he said one thing and meant another. Beck's statement proves to me that a Ramsey did not kill JBR. Either that or he is an idiot.

The DNA is real. They believe it. And they have more of it that we don't know about. They are gonna figure it out. What saddens me the most is you guys still feel it is okay to throw stones when LE is telling you they were wrong. Mary Lacey is gonna be the protagonist when this case is over.

 

[Roy23]

Your right Roy, but neither did they find valid proof of an intruder. What ever they found could be easily explained.. JR admits that he broke the window. The boot print could have been put there by BR or FWJ and or LE. The scuff mark on the wall, come on, the kids played in there and you know how boys are. The TDNA, could have been placed there months before she died or years after.

Its the other evidence that points to Rs that is not that easily explained....

Read what you just wrote and then read my signature line. Don't be a sheep AC. Read what the investigators are telling you now.

 

[BBB167893]

Dave,

Don't take this the wrong way, but your book is of no consequence to me.

Then WHY does it seem to bother you so much?

Alex Hunter believed the Ramsey's were involved. It is documented.

Did he? Because every source has a different story.

I am certainly not defending the guy or any action of the DA's office or BPD. As far as I am concerned, they all sucked.

That's something we can agree on.

One thing they did, though, is get some of the most renowned experts in their fields to testify. But somehow we know they told Hunter he might ought to hold off. Whether that means they didn't pass the Ham sandwich rule or they couldn't prove their case will be debated.

At least you admit it.

But why oh why does the current DA and the previous one before than one take the Ramsey's to trial? I am no book author but I have common sense that answers that question for me.

Yeah, SO DO I! And I'll be more than happy to TELL you why they didn't:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3809192&postcount=1"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The cross-fingerpointing defense[/ame]

Being an author allows me to do a lot of research!

 

[Roy23]

Then WHY does it seem to bother you so much?



Did he? Because every source has a different story.



That's something we can agree on.



At least you admit it.



Yeah, SO DO I! And I'll be more than happy to TELL you why they didn't:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The cross-fingerpointing defense

Being an author allows me to do a lot of research!

The cross finger pointing defense huh? No way Dave. You will never get a Ramsey to blame another Ramsey. Ever. Read the signature line Dave. Mr. Beckner now knows a Ramsey is not involved unless they paid someone to do it. And I believe if LE felt that they had a case and the cross fingerpointing defense would be used by a Ramsey they would have taken it to trial. And you know it. You would have at least gotten some charges put on them if not FIRST DEGREE MURDER.

 

[Agatha_C]

Read what you just wrote and then read my signature line. Don't be a sheep AC. Read what the investigators are telling you now.

Roy, First of all because I find it funny let me say BAAAA! And thats just my twisted sense of humor and not a smart butt reply, although...LOL..

I understood your signature and Im not pulling the wool over my eyes, though at times I might be a mutton head (LOL) I dont think I am on this point. The TDNA on her pants matches that small speck in her panties, this simply means that who ever handle those long johns also handled her panties. This could have happened at the coroners or while they sat in evidence. Did they test every lab person or persons that hung around the lab for DNA? We dont know but I highly doubt it.

Someone correct me if Im wrong but wasnt the speck in her panties to small or compromised by JBRs own blood?

Roy, why is that I need to understand you and yet I feel that you are not even trying to understand me.. Thats how it rolls with IDI and thats the frustrating part. As is the moment it heats up, IDI runs and thats why, you'll never get anyone but IDI to take any of you seriously.. I have been attacked plenty and I dont run, nor do I let them know if they are getting to me. I stay and fight the good fight....

 

[Roy23]

Roy, First of all because I find it funny let me say BAAAA! And thats just my twisted sense of humor and not a smart butt reply, although...LOL..

I understood your signature and Im not pulling the wool over my eyes, though at times I might be a mutton head (LOL) I dont think I am on this point. The TDNA on her pants matches that small speck in her panties, this simply means that who ever handle those long johns also handled her panties. This could have happened at the coroners or while they sat in evidence. Did they test every lab person or persons that hung around the lab for DNA? We dont know but I highly doubt it.

Someone correct me if Im wrong but wasnt the speck in her panties to small or compromised by JBRs own blood?

Roy, why is that I need to understand you and yet I feel that you are not even trying to understand me.. Thats how it rolls with IDI and thats the frustrating part. As is the moment it heats up, IDI runs and thats why, you'll never get anyone but IDI to take any of you seriously.. I have been attacked plenty and I dont run, nor do I let them know if they are getting to me. I stay and fight the good fight....

AC,

I definitely run away from this site or at least this thread because we are at a stale mate here. I mean I hear what you are saying on the DNA and I know you believe it. I am just telling you that the investigators are telling you different. I mean do I believe you, Cynic, SD, or the people who have investigated this crime who were once RDI.

We aren't getting anywhere here. I believe that everyone who knows ALL the details on this case is looking for an Intruder. There words say as much. And I think most here are in a time warp. The conspircy can only go so far.

 

[BBB167893]

Oh I know very well this case will never go to trial, dna or no dna.

Do you know what just KILLS me, Beck? To hear Roy talk, you'd think the Boulder DA was a real, aggressive, fire-and-blood prosecutor who showed restraint out of some kind of wisdom.

That's OBVIOUSLY not true, and he KNOWS it's not true. The DA hadn't taken a case to trial in TEN YEARS. And he talks as if there were something WE'RE not understanding! SHEESH!

 

[Agatha_C]

Roy would you please be so kind as to give me a link as to where to find the source of your signature? I would like to read the whole article.. Thank you

 

[BBB167893]

This is why I don't come here much anymore.

I'm reminded of the old "heat-kitchen" debate!

What saddens me the most is you guys still feel it is okay to throw stones when LE is telling you they were wrong.

Your interpretations are different than mine. Michael Kane certainly doesn't think he was wrong.

Mary Lacey is gonna be the protagonist when this case is over.

HIGHLY unlikely.

I'm reminded of a quote from the great Winston Churchill: "history shall be very kind to me, for I intend to write it."

 

[BBB167893]

The cross finger pointing defense huh? No way Dave.

BIG WAY, pilgrim.

You will never get a Ramsey to blame another Ramsey. Ever.

Not NOW, certainly. If the DA had arrested the Ramseys and thrown them into separate holding cells like the police WANTED to do and like the FBI, Dream Team lawyers and even Lou Smit SAID he should have done, we might not be here right now!

Read the signature line Dave. Mr. Beckner now knows a Ramsey is not involved unless they paid someone to do it.

That's not the impression I get. It HELPS to read some of his OTHER statements. I know YOU weren't one of them, but I know of several IDIs who were quite worried when the police took back this case. And between you and me, maybe they OUGHT to be.

And I believe if LE felt that they had a case and the cross fingerpointing defense would be used by a Ramsey they would have taken it to trial. And you know it.

Now I KNOW you don't understand! The cross fingerpointing defense was already in play WITHOUT the Rs having to actively blame each other for it. That was the whole point of my post. Take another look:

the cross-fingerpointing defense is where two people are involved in a crime, one as the leader and one as the accomplice, but the evidence is structured in a way that LE can't be sure which one was in the driver's seat and which one was along for the ride. Under the law as it is in America today, a prosecutor cannot--CANNOT--go before a jury and say "one of these people killed such and such, the other helped cover it up. You make up your mind as to which is which." No way! A prosecutor MUST, MUST bring specific charges against each person.

You would have at least gotten some charges put on them if not FIRST DEGREE MURDER.

But against WHICH ONE? The reason why the Ramseys were not charged is not because there wasn't enough evidence. There was and is plenty. There just wasn't enough to say for sure which one KILLED her and which one HELPED.

Also, let's not kid ourselves here. Let's be prefectly honest about what KIND of "prosecutors" were at work here. Do you think they could have figured it

You DID read it, did you not? I don't do this for my HEALTH, you know!

I don't understand what in the h*** is so DAMN hard to understand about all of this!!

 

[BBB167893]

I understood your signature and Im not pulling the wool over my eyes, though at times I might be a mutton head (LOL)

LOL! Dragons EAT sheep, Agatha!

I dont think I am on this point. The TDNA on her pants matches that small speck in her panties, this simply means that who ever handle those long johns also handled her panties. This could have happened at the coroners or while they sat in evidence. Did they test every lab person or persons that hung around the lab for DNA? We dont know but I highly doubt it.

Even Bill Wise said he didn't buy it.

Someone correct me if Im wrong but wasnt the speck in her panties to small or compromised by JBRs own blood?

You're not wrong that I know of.

Roy, why is that I need to understand you and yet I feel that you are not even trying to understand me..

Gee, Agatha, I can't IMAGINE where you'd get THAT idea...:innocent:

Thats how it rolls with IDI and thats the frustrating part.

That's how they operate, Agatha. And you and I ought to know!

As is the moment it heats up, IDI runs and that's why, you'll never get anyone but IDI to take any of you seriously.. I have been attacked plenty and I dont run, nor do I let them know if they are getting to me. I stay and fight the good fight....

And I feel the temperature rising!

 

[Agatha_C]

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-ramseypolygraph.htm

2006-08-29: Boulder District Attorney, Mary Lacy Press Conference
"No-one is really cleared of a homicide until there’s a conviction"

Man: "Speaking of the ongoing nature of your investigation, then would it be fair to say that is any involvement by John or Patsy Ramsey completely ruled out by your office? Are you committed to an intruder theory of the crime?"

Mary Lacy: "What we are committed to is solving the crime if we possibly can.. You know, there’s these terms out there “Umbrella of suspicion”, we don’t use that. You know, no-one is really cleared of a homicide until there’s a conviction, in court beyond a reasonable doubt. And I don’t think you will get any prosecutor… unless they were present with the person at the time of the crime… to clear someone. Where, like in this case the facts are so strange … you know… obviously the family was in the house at the time… the DNA does not match … now … so what we can say is … I think an expert said it’s… you have to look at stranger, male DNA in the underwear of the dead victim."

ML, is saying you still cant rule out the parents or thats my take on it.... In her words, they were in the house....


District Attorney Mary Lacy said the testing was done on a different part of JonBenet’s clothing and matches unidentified male DNA previously found on the child’s panties in 1997.

All this tells us Roy, is that someone touched her pants. It does not mean that person killed her.. I say it over and over like a broken record...

Let not forget that ML was the ring leader for the JMK circus and well we all know how that turned out... Good work and so reliable is she...

 

[BBB167893]

I definitely run away from this site or at least this thread because we are at a stalemate here.

That's no excuse. How else do you expect to break the stalemate?

I mean do I believe you, Cynic, SD, or the people who have investigated this crime who were once RDI.

I know who I'd put MY money on!

We aren't getting anywhere here.

Maybe you're right. Maybe it's time for some of us to DO something about it!

 

[BBB167893]

Roy would you please be so kind as to give me a link as to where to find the source of your signature? I would like to read the whole article.. Thank you

Wise decision, Agatha! You might get a different message.

 

[joeskidbeck]

I had to leave for a little while in order to get my mom her dinner. I hope no one thinks I ran because the temp. was rising. I have to be honest, Roy, I thought you called me an idiot here: " Beck's statement proves to me that a Ramsey did not kill JBR. Either that or he is an idiot." snipped and BBM

I re-read it and I think it's safe to say that I misunderstood the first time. I guess it would help if you knew that it's Becky and not Joe or Beck. I have to be honest and tell you that I appreciate having a discussion with you. Most IDIs come across very rude and condescending, one of the reasons I usually don't get caught up in a discourse with them. You can then imagine how I felt when I read that and thought you had called me an idiot. Said all that in order to say this. I wish you would not leave because we are at an impasse. Dave and Agatha are right, we will never be able to understand each other if we can't even talk, right?

 

[Agatha_C]

Well Joe, I disagree.

This is why I don't come here much anymore. It always ends the same. I thought you believed in Mark Beckner's statement. But all you guys do is through out he said one thing and meant another. Beck's statement proves to me that a Ramsey did not kill JBR. Either that or he is an idiot.

The DNA is real. They believe it. And they have more of it that we don't know about. They are gonna figure it out. What saddens me the most is you guys still feel it is okay to throw stones when LE is telling you they were wrong. Mary Lacey is gonna be the protagonist when this case is over.

Roy, did you just call Beck an idiot? Because its reading that way to me. And well thats not playing nice and exactly what one would expect from IDI and I thought maybe you were better than that, I would hate to think I was wrong about you...

 

[Roy23]

I had to leave for a little while in order to get my mom her dinner. I hope no one thinks I ran because the temp. was rising. I have to be honest, Roy, I thought you called me an idiot here: " Beck's statement proves to me that a Ramsey did not kill JBR. Either that or he is an idiot." snipped and BBM

I re-read it and I think it's safe to say that I misunderstood the first time. I guess it would help if you knew that it's Becky and not Joe or Beck. I have to be honest and tell you that I appreciate having a discussion with you. Most IDIs come across very rude and condescending, one of the reasons I usually don't get caught up in a discourse with them. You can then imagine how I felt when I read that and thought you had called me an idiot. Said all that in order to say this. I wish you would not leave because we are at an impasse. Dave and Agatha are right, we will never be able to understand each other if we can't even talk, right?

Becky,

I appreciate those kind words. I truly do. You have to understand that we can't continue this discussion and not be either rude or condescending. Dave and I once had a respectful internet relationship. But eventually we are at each other. I respect his passion but I hate his message. Because I don't live here and write a book that doesn't mean his passion and or opinion should be stronger than mine.

I have already been categorized as like all other IDI's. I don't have a clan here and I challenge you to look through the history here and tell me otherwise. It is me by myself with my beliefs. And to all of you, I have posted Beckner's quote before and won't do it again. It is not taken out of context. Dave could post it if he wants. And of course i was not calling you an idiot.

The law enforcement now is investigating this crime as an intruder did it. Believe it or not. If the investigation changes to a Ramsey even with the DNA, I am listening. They had tunnel vision and couldn't make the case. It isn't cross fingerpointing, it is facts. I will never change your mind nor you mine. The investigators really believed the original DNA was transferred innocently and tried to prove it. They failed and ultimately advances proved the DNA is very significant. This is where the case stands. If you or anyone else can prove me that i am wrong, I am listening. But you can't.

I don't believe in punishing the Ramsey's anymore. I don't believe Alex Hunter or anyone else was a great man. Nobody. A lot of money was set to be made by taking this to court. Lots of publicity. I am not naive either. I don't pretend to know more than the investigators or DA. There is no statute of limitations on murder. Dr. Henry Lee advised Hunter to let this go for now. A lot has changed since then since he was the one who suggested a factory workers DNA in the panties. So much has changed since then.

We can't keep conversing on this until Mark Beckner is proven an idiot. Or that you guys know more than him.

 

[joeskidbeck]

Thanks Agatha. What I'm wondering is this: When he said Beck's statement, could he have been shortening "Beckner"? That's really the only way for me to not feel like I've been called an idiot. Oh well, I'm sure Roy will straighten this out, he doesn't strike me as the kind of person who would call someone an idiot because they disagree with him.