Sources: Casey Anthony Intentionally Killed Caylee

[alwaysonmymind]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned before or this thread has somehow spun out into something else, but if the words overwhelming indication of intentional death are not some reporter's interpretation, I am thinking that only one thing could forensically prove this.

Duct tape over the skull or fingerprints on the tape does not necessarily indicate intentional death in that the tape could have been placed there post-mortem to imitate a kidnapping. IMO the only evidence to show it was intentional is if somehow there was evidence on the tape, however slight, of Caylee being alive while it was placed there - such as vomit perhaps. If there is any indication her head was taped while she was alive then I think that would rule out any fake kidnapping or accidental death scenario. Since actual COD was not determined by the autopsy, then perhaps either some microscopic forensic evidence of bodily fluid that would ONLY have occurred if she was living at the time the tape was placed would indicate that she had not yet expired. Any other fiber evidence (from bedding, etc.) might indicate suffocation, but could have also been easily transferred to tape. Same with any other crime scene evidence that may have led back to the Anthony house - it might identify KC as the killer, but not prove it was intentional. IMO

Very good observation. And a possibility...moo

 

[RR0004]

There were calls 16th and 24th. JG said he heard Caylee in both, but is now saying less sure about 24th. I think he did hear Caylee on 16th but on 24th KC was faking it by pretending to tell Caylee to get off the table.

Could anything be simple in this case?

 

[FightTheOstrich]

yes that's what I've always heard, in strangulation the hyoid or hyroid or whatever it is is often broken. But apparently a person can die of a "broken neck" without bones having been broken or fractured, just cartilage and connective tissue broken enough to cause death. Or maybe other cause.

Right on. I believe this is especially true in children. The neck can be broken w/o any injury to bones etc... Since they only found her skeletal remains there would not be any evidence of a broken neck but it could indeed have happened.

 

[Rumpole]

Could anything be simple in this case?

Nowadays even if there was live video footage of a crime we would have a WS thread debating whether or not the video was doctored.

 

[JWG]

Not unless there was another dead body in that trash. Blow flies are a different species of flies than regular flies and their larvae and maggots are different.

Again, assuming any maggots of blow flies were collected.

 

[cocoamom]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned before or this thread has somehow spun out into something else, but if the words overwhelming indication of intentional death are not some reporter's interpretation, I am thinking that only one thing could forensically prove this.

Duct tape over the skull or fingerprints on the tape does not necessarily indicate intentional death in that the tape could have been placed there post-mortem to imitate a kidnapping. IMO the only evidence to show it was intentional is if somehow there was evidence on the tape, however slight, of Caylee being alive while it was placed there - such as vomit perhaps. If there is any indication her head was taped while she was alive then I think that would rule out any fake kidnapping or accidental death scenario. Since actual COD was not determined by the autopsy, then perhaps either some microscopic forensic evidence of bodily fluid that would ONLY have occurred if she was living at the time the tape was placed would indicate that she had not yet expired. Any other fiber evidence (from bedding, etc.) might indicate suffocation, but could have also been easily transferred to tape. Same with any other crime scene evidence that may have led back to the Anthony house - it might identify KC as the killer, but not prove it was intentional. IMO

:woohoo: Excellent post! I have been thinking this all day and no time to post! Also, if there were something detectable in the vomit? Medication they could tie to the A home? Or a specific food or something? Just thinking out loud here - haven't read thread completely yet! You guys post too fast!! LOL

 

[FightTheOstrich]

Yes! Exactly!

I completely agree. GA lied about the 16th and that is one of the reasons he is lawyering up. Unless, KC carried a "sleeping" Caylee out to her car... Who knows?

 

[static]

I agree with the staged kidnapping theory after she killed Caylee intentional or not. She left her car probably because it smelled and left it with her purse(but not her cell phone) in it. Most women would panic at the thought of losing their purse. Had it not been for Amy and Cindy talking, God knows that KC would have left town on that stolen money. Just a thought, she knew her mother was worried sick and RELISHED in that. I am sure at the trial she will find a way to blame Cindy-

 

[cecybeans]

I am wondering if there was a cloth UNDER that duct tape over her mouth.

That's a good point - but I still think that might be argued by the defense as "accidental death" if somehow chloroform was involved with the cloth (though the kind of abuse that would result in felony murder due to sedation would be hard to see as "accidental"). However, KC's story could involve it being a "one-time" incident to "sedate" Caylee after the "horrible fight" with nowhere to go, only intending to sedate but not to kill. All total bunk of course, but still with enough doubt to perhaps convince a jury.

But if she used the duct tape AT ANY TIME before that baby had actually expired, it completely negates that explanation and would move it straight to intentional I would think.

If you mean the kind of cloth that could have served as a ligature, then that would be another story of course and the duct tape part would simply support a staged kidnapping coverup.

 

[californiared]

I posted this in the Nancy Grace thread, but I think this one is more appropriate..Ok, I have a thought as to how they knew Caylee's death wasn't an accident. When I heard on Nancy that it is confirmed that the duct tape was around Caylee's mouth, I immediately thought of something from the JonBenet case..Steve Thomas wrote in his book about the case that one of the reasons he thought the Ramsey's faked JonBenet's kidnapping was the duct tape found on her mouth..heres an excerpt: As part of her staging, Thomas wrote that Patsy put a strip of duct tape over JonBenet's mouth. "There was bloody mucus under the tape, and a perfect set of the child's lip prints, which did not indicate a tongue impression or resistance," indicating that JonBenet had not been alive when the tape was affixed to her mouth. So if Casey's fingerprints were found on the duct tape, and evidence of resistance wouldn't that point to intentional murder? If it was determined the taped was placed when Caylee was alive that def. squashes the whole "terrible accident and mother panics and fakes a kidnapping" theory. And just to be clear, since someone misunderstood me on the other thread, I am saying that if they found CASEY'S fingerprint's and signs of resistance on the ducktape around Caylees mouth (showing she was ALIVE when the duck tape was placed there) that would indicate that not only did Casey kill her, but that it was INTENTIONAL. If Casey were to change her story to that she accidently killed Caylee and in a panic tried to cover it up w/ a kidnapping, she would have had to have placed the ducktape on Caylee after she had died. I was misunderstood before as some thought that I meant it had been an accident, which I don't, I sadly knew it was intentional from day one =(.

 

[PoppyH]

I can see Casey stuffing a Chloroform rag in Caylees mouth and then taping her head and mouth to keep it in place, wonder if they found any cloth inside her mouth?

 

[JWG]

Precisely! THUS...Immunity

Not quite, because cell phone and computer usage establish the fact that KC returned to the home after George left. JG claimed to hear Caylee in the background of his call with KC just before 3 - over an hour after George left. IMHO that was sufficient time for KC and Caylee to change clothes, possibly into swimsuits.

George loved his grand-daughter, probably more than anyone. He had no reason to lie about this.

 

[Rumpole]

Again, assuming any maggots of blow flies were collected.

I need research or lessons on flies. Are blow flies by definition flies that have maggots as a phase of life cycle? So, if there were maggots they are Blow Fly maggots by definition? I asked earlier whether maggots in trunk garbage could be from other meat scraps and not exclusively a dead body?

 

[JaneInOz]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned before or this thread has somehow spun out into something else, but if the words overwhelming indication of intentional death are not some reporter's interpretation, I am thinking that only one thing could forensically prove this.

Duct tape over the skull or fingerprints on the tape does not necessarily indicate intentional death in that the tape could have been placed there post-mortem to imitate a kidnapping. IMO the only evidence to show it was intentional is if somehow there was evidence on the tape, however slight, of Caylee being alive while it was placed there - such as vomit perhaps. If there is any indication her head was taped while she was alive then I think that would rule out any fake kidnapping or accidental death scenario. Since actual COD was not determined by the autopsy, then perhaps either some microscopic forensic evidence of bodily fluid that would ONLY have occurred if she was living at the time the tape was placed would indicate that she had not yet expired. Any other fiber evidence (from bedding, etc.) might indicate suffocation, but could have also been easily transferred to tape. Same with any other crime scene evidence that may have led back to the Anthony house - it might identify KC as the killer, but not prove it was intentional. IMO

Bold Mine

Yes As In JonBenets (staging if you go down the theory that the parent/s did it which I do)

That is what I was saying yes she did it but was it indeed intentional/ premeditated ?
But then why the looking up of all the other things on google ?
Unless she looked up Chloroform because of that picture she was sent
and when looking it led to one thing to another to another
How many times do you go somewhere and the next hour later youve looked at 20 pages ! that all link ....

(ok exaggeration but still it happens)

All that could be co-incedental

And she did kill Caylee in a fit of rage and then made up this elaborate story using twists and turns as she went along making them all up

And the 31 days was the time to plot it all out..

The partying could have been her way of pretending it didnt happen.. or making sure that she was acting normal so no one got suspicious

How she EVER thought she would get away with killing a child and no one suspecting her and investigating her is beyond me.

What a waste of a life 22 years old had the world before her, had a beautiful daughter and parents that cared enough about her to help her raise that child and now her child is dead and she will either be executed or remain in jail for the remainder of her life - which could be another 60 years ..

She had it all.

 

[cecybeans]

:woohoo: Excellent post! I have been thinking this all day and no time to post! Also, if there were something detectable in the vomit? Medication they could tie to the A home? Or a specific food or something? Just thinking out loud here - haven't read thread completely yet! You guys post too fast!! LOL

Thank you ma'am - I am a fan of your posts! Glad to know I am not the only one that had to skip to the end of the section without reading it all first. The thought we shared has been bouncing around in my head all day as well and I just had to get it out so I could get on to another one!

 

[static]

I think she put the duct tape over Caylee's mouth after she died, to stage a kidnapping too, I think she chloroformed her (so she could use the computer,cell phone )whatever without interruption, then discovered she overdosed her and put her in the trunk trying to figure out what to to do to keep herself out of trouble. Ah ha lets stage a kidnap. I am not an expert on anything, just have my opinions...

 

[JaneInOz]

I posted this in the Nancy Grace thread, but I think this one is more appropriate..Ok, I have a thought as to how they knew Caylee's death wasn't an accident. When I heard on Nancy that it is confirmed that the duct tape was around Caylee's mouth, I immediately thought of something from the JonBenet case..Steve Thomas wrote in his book about the case that one of the reasons he thought the Ramsey's faked JonBenet's kidnapping was the duct tape found on her mouth..heres an excerpt: As part of her staging, Thomas wrote that Patsy put a strip of duct tape over JonBenet's mouth. "There was bloody mucus under the tape, and a perfect set of the child's lip prints, which did not indicate a tongue impression or resistance," indicating that JonBenet had not been alive when the tape was affixed to her mouth. So if Casey's fingerprints were found on the duct tape, and evidence of resistance wouldn't that point to intentional murder? If it was determined the taped was placed when Caylee was alive that def. squashes the whole "terrible accident and mother panics and fakes a kidnapping" theory. And just to be clear, since someone misunderstood me on the other thread, I am saying that if they found CASEY'S fingerprint's and signs of resistance on the ducktape around Caylees mouth (showing she was ALIVE when the duck tape was placed there) that would indicate that not only did Casey kill her, but that it was INTENTIONAL. If Casey were to change her story to that she accidently killed Caylee and in a panic tried to cover it up w/ a kidnapping, she would have had to have placed the ducktape on Caylee after she had died. I was misunderstood before as some thought that I meant it had been an accident, which I don't, I sadly knew it was intentional from day one =(.

snap i was thinking along the lines of you....but a little different

 

[Ames]

Of course, they didn't name any names there, but since the TV station reported it, their sources must be good.

I always thought it was an accident. It makes me so sad to think she may have done it on purpose.

I used to think (and HOPE) that it was an accident too, but after hearing on NG about the search for "neck breaking", and "how to make weapons out of household items"...and about the duct tape that was practically wrapped around the skull, I have changed my mind. I think that she killed her on purpose. I think that her not getting to go on that trip with Amy, because she couldn't find a babysitter for Caylee (hmmmm, what about Zenaida Gonzalez, the nanny that doesn't exist, why didn't KC just ask HER to watch her while she went on her trip with Amy?), is what pushed her over the edge.

 

[radio]

I used to think (and HOPE) that it was an accident too, but after hearing on NG about the search for "neck breaking", and "how to make weapons out of household items"...and about the duct tape that was practically wrapped around the skull, I have changed my mind. I think that she killed her on purpose. I think that her not getting to go on that trip with Amy, because she couldn't find a babysitter for Caylee (hmmmm, what about Zenaida Gonzalez, the nanny that doesn't exist, why didn't KC just ask HER to watch her while she went on her trip with Amy?), is what pushed her over the edge.

I have never believed the searches had anything to do with Caylee. The choloform, nothing, which is actually more chilling to me -- to think she just walked up and killed Caylee. You know - just walked up and whatever. Heartbreaking.

 

[maur33]

I posted this in the Nancy Grace thread, but I think this one is more appropriate..Ok, I have a thought as to how they knew Caylee's death wasn't an accident.

When I heard on Nancy that it is confirmed that the duct tape was around Caylee's mouth, I immediately thought of something from the JonBenet case..Steve Thomas wrote in his book about the case that one of the reasons he thought the Ramsey's faked JonBenet's kidnapping was the duct tape found on her mouth..heres an excerpt:

As part of her staging, Thomas wrote that Patsy put a strip of duct tape over JonBenet's mouth. "There was bloody mucus under the tape, and a perfect set of the child's lip prints, which did not indicate a tongue impression or resistance," indicating that JonBenet had not been alive when the tape was affixed to her mouth.

So if Casey's fingerprints were found on the duct tape, and evidence of resistance wouldn't that point to intentional murder? If it was determined the taped was placed when Caylee was alive that def. squashes the whole "terrible accident and mother panics and fakes a kidnapping" theory. And just to be clear, since someone misunderstood me on the other thread, I am saying that if they found CASEY'S fingerprint's and signs of resistance on the ducktape around Caylees mouth (showing she was ALIVE when the duck tape was placed there) that would indicate that not only did Casey kill her, but that it was INTENTIONAL.

If Casey were to change her story to that she accidently killed Caylee and in a panic tried to cover it up w/ a kidnapping, she would have had to have placed the ducktape on Caylee after she had died. I was misunderstood before as some thought that I meant it had been an accident, which I don't, I sadly knew it was intentional from day one =(.

Whats a murder without some duct tape and garbage bags.

I can definitely see that this tape around Caylee's head would yield quite a bit of evidence, certainly casey's finger prints and signs that Caylee was alive while she did this could be teeth marks or evidence of tongue thrusting. I am not sure if the tape would still hold chemical bonds or not but if she was alive and had attempted to breath and exhaled there could be evidence trapped within the fibers of the tape.

p.s. I never heard that tidbit about the Ramsey's, interesting.