South Africa - Anni Dewani, 28, shot to death, Gugulethu, 13 Nov 2010 #1

[zwiebel]

There's some interesting rows raging about the bisexuality stuff. I do think it's relevant in the case, because it could show Dewani's feelings and statements about his marriage were untrue. But I'm not quite sure why it's made 'shocker' headlines all over the world.....

 

[patCee]

I remember reading that Dewani and Anni were introduced in UK by a mutual friend. Later the 2 families became involved in the engagement and wedding, so not an arranged marriage.

 

[zwiebel]

I didn't follow the other's trials properly, wish I had. Any ideas about the best news site for a catch up summary?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Honeymoon murder suspect Shrien Dewani would be 'sexually abused' if he is sent to a South African prison a court heard.
His lawyers claimed that he would be 'very vulnerable' to gang attacks and sexual abuse if he stood trial there.
The comments come a day after it was revealed that a gay escort would tell a court how the businessman confessed he needed to escape an arranged marriage just months before his wife was killed.

Deon Van Zyl, a former High Court Judge who now inspects prisons, said he receives a text message whenever an inmate dies and he had received one only this morning reporting a death.

And he suggest that if convicted, Mr Dewani would spend much of his sentence at the 'luxury' Malmesbury Medium A prison in the Western Cape.
'It looks far too much like a five-star hotel,' said Mr Van Zyl. 'That's the impression being created by some of the prisons.'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...der-wife-Anni-way-marriage.html#ixzz3FYw4xoFw

That's the trouble with murderers, they always think they won't get caught, only other 'stupid' people do.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Ah, I see. I cannot think why Dewani tried so hard to get Anni to go through with the marriage - unless he had the idea all along that, once a grieving widower, he could then tell family he was too griefstricken to ever marry again?

I think that was the idea. My daughter's friend is Fijian Indian and Muslim, she didn't want a traditional wedding to her own, but she ended up marrying a divorced Indian Muslim man, they were married about a year, she left and got a divorce. Now she is classed as damaged goods, :/ so she can do what she likes, she's been in a relationship with a white Australian man for several years now.
It's hard to comprehend when it's not our custom, it was a big eye opener for my daughter to learn of this.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

It all sounded a bit like BS - didn't know how Anni would be killed, or where. Did he think he would be driving around forever. Perhaps tomorrow van Zyl will be looking at any contradictions from his trial.

Qwabe sounds like he's trying to distance himself from the act of murder. In Australian law, it would lie firmly with Dewani, as if he pulled the trigger himself, the hit man receives more lenient sentence.

 

[Interested Bystander]

These CCTV images taken within 3 hours after SD is told Anni was found dead. Notice the grieving while with supporters, when he is alone and on the phone he is smiling. I have no doubt he was on some gay site setting up a date. It would be easy to check the time of the CCTV image and the time and i.d of call.

JMO


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...er-Panorama-footage-raises-concerns-case.html

Very interesting. I thought it was said that Dewani's phone was taken during the hold up. Did he come with a spare? If he did and the time of this photo is verified it would be very damning.

Were the contacts with gay websites made after Anni's murder made by phone or via a computer and was he back in the UK at the time? I know he left SA quite quickly after the murder but have missed exactly when.

EDIT

I have just read that the hotel lent him a phone and he left on the Tuesday following Anni's murder.

 

[zwiebel]

Those cctv shots are damning, I think. A person just doesn't start having a smiling convo on the phone when they have:

1: Lost a loved one
2: Just been hijacked at gunpoint themselves

 

[soozieqtips]

Those cctv shots are damning, I think. A person just doesn't start having a smiling convo on the phone when they have:

1: Lost a loved one
2: Just been hijacked at gunpoint themselves

I hope he's asked who he was talking to during the 'smiling' photo, and what it was that would have made him smile so soon after his wife was murdered on their honeymoon!

Also seems he was completely addicted to Gaydar, so much so that he couldn't refrain from it just before he was leaving for his honeymoon, or after Anni was murdered. So the murder didn't affect his libido then? Well, I think he's 100% gay and not bisexual at all. No wonder he spurned Anni's advances. She just didn't do it for him. I wonder if there'll be any female witnesses who can confirm they were in a relationship with him, which included sex.

 

[zwiebel]

EWN got me with the tweet for this, because it made like it sound they had some live footage from in the court, naughty people. It's just a reporter retelling what happened. But, O/T, the South African accent really reminds me of the New Zealand one, with a way a few of the words are pronounced.

http://ewn.co.za/Media/2014/10/08/Convicted-killer-testifies-against-Shrien-Dewani

 

[zwiebel]

I hope he's asked who he was talking to during the 'smiling' photo, and what it was that would have made him smile so soon after his wife was murdered on their honeymoon!

Also seems he was completely addicted to Gaydar, so much so that he couldn't refrain from it just before he was leaving for his honeymoon, or after Anni was murdered. So the murder didn't affect his libido then? Well, I think he's 100% gay and not bisexual at all. No wonder he spurned Anni's advances. She just didn't do it for him. I wonder if there'll be any female witnesses who can confirm they were in a relationship with him, which included sex.

Once again, he seems like a classic kind of personality who just doesn't realise how people who are really griefstricken and traumatised behave. And it leaks through the facade, which can only be maintained for short periods of time. In my opinion, of course.

 

[Alyce]

Ah, I see. I cannot think why Dewani tried so hard to get Anni to go through with the marriage - unless he had the idea all along that, once a grieving widower, he could then tell family he was too griefstricken to ever marry again?

From what I have been told, I understand that once he was a widower, he would not be expected to marry again. I mean, he could marry again if he wanted to , but tradition would not expect him to.

 

[Truthy]

I think R15000 is about £853. How many weeks pay this would be in SA, I have no idea, but sounds desperately cheap to me for killing someone.

Just read that this is equal to three months pay- if you are black. (But unemployment among POC stands at 30%)
If you are white, you'd be paid 6X that amount on average.
Link:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-20138322

 

[Truthy]

From what I have been told, I understand that once he was a widower, he would not be expected to marry again. I mean, he could marry again if he wanted to , but tradition would not expect him to.

Yep- and from what I have been told, if you manage to have kids a husband can basically step out and have whatever sort of life you want on the side, as long as you pay to support them and do not get involved in a big public scandal. Everyone is happy to turn the other way.
I wonder if his stories about hormone therapy were some sort of cover/ excuse to introduce the idea of possibly inseminating her with a doctor's assistance. She may have had valid concerns about them ever having kids if he could barely touch her, and perhaps he tried to hide behind medical problems, and offer medical solutions for them. Kickboxing? WTH?

 

[newone]

Once again, he seems like a classic kind of personality who just doesn't realise how people who are really griefstricken and traumatised behave. And it leaks through the facade, which can only be maintained for short periods of time. In my opinion, of course.

To me it just seems that he was feeling liberated.....There was zero grief at all and he was quite pleased!... JMHO

 

[Truthy]

Once again, he seems like a classic kind of personality who just doesn't realise how people who are really griefstricken and traumatised behave. And it leaks through the facade, which can only be maintained for short periods of time. In my opinion, of course.

Classic sociopath, showing signs of "duper's delight". In my experience they enjoy pulling the wool over people's eyes at least as much as they do getting their own way. Scary.

 

[patCee]

Just read that this is equal to three months pay- if you are black. (But unemployment among POC stands at 30%)
If you are white, you'd be paid 6X that amount on average.
Link:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-20138322

That does put things in perspective to some degree. Three months is a long time with no income, though I wonder what Tonga's excuse could be in view of the fact he had a decent vehicle and was working from the airport.

 

[Truthy]

I remember reading that Dewani and Anni were introduced in UK by a mutual friend. Later the 2 families became involved in the engagement and wedding, so not an arranged marriage.

I would say that while not arranged, his family would be vetting the woman as she would need to be "socially acceptable" to the family. I'm not sure of her background, but there may not have been a lot of women that fit the bill / ran in their circles in London that didn't hear chatter about his gay life style. He may not have had a lot of options that appeased his family- or have wanted to go through all the phony courting stuff again with another woman. If he was devoting a lot of hours to his hook ups and showed no sexual interest in his dates, they'd likely figure it out.
I'm sure he was angry at the demands of his family to have a traditional life, and transferred that anger to her- even as he was duping her. You see this all the time with straight guys being angry at their wives for expecting them to fulfill their roles as good husbands and dads, even when it is what they signed up for. They murder rather than raise the kids, or have affairs and totally blame the wife. It sounds like he should have found a woman who was just in it for the payoff.

 

[patCee]

I would say that while not arranged, his family would be vetting the woman as she would need to be "socially acceptable" to the family. I'm not sure of her background, but there may not have been a lot of women that fit the bill / ran in their circles in London that didn't hear chatter about his gay life style. He may not have had a lot of options that appeased his family- or have wanted to go through all the phony courting stuff again with another woman. If he was devoting a lot of hours to his hook ups and showed no sexual interest in his dates, they'd likely figure it out.
I'm sure he was angry at the demands of his family to have a traditional life, and transferred that anger to her- even as he was duping her. You see this all the time with straight guys being angry at their wives for expecting them to fulfill their roles as good husbands and dads, even when it is what they signed up for. They murder rather than raise the kids, or have affairs and totally blame the wife. It sounds like he should have found a woman who was just in it for the payoff.

Good points, the puzzle is that it was reported some time back that Dewani was previously engaged but broke it off abruptly when he met Anni. Just found this report that his previous engagement was broken up because of sexual difficulties, suggestions he was impotent, or he didn't want to have sex with her. Not sure how reliable this paper is though.

http://www.theweek.co.uk/people-news/3265/dewani-was-‘impotent’-first-fiancee-claims

 

[Truthy]

Good points, the puzzle is that it was reported some time back that Dewani was previously engaged but broke it off abruptly when he met Anni. Apparently his previous partner was upset but no other info on her or whether she was acceptable to his family.

I'm wondering if Anni just seemed more naive or controllable as a LT partner. In any relationship, a woman is going to expect increased intimacy, if not a road test for sexual compatibility. I have known some gay men to be able to fake interest and desire and do the deed (because they did desire a family or family wanted them to) and many other who just never could- the thought of sex with a woman would physically repulse them. The guys I knew would completely go for the most naive romantic girls who would never expect that kind of deception.
Not saying she was, but if he was a hard core submissive who preferred men's equipment, she didn't stand much of a chance pleasing him. I think she realized she was being duped, and he was afraid of the humiliation of divorce.