South Africa - Anni Dewani, 28, shot to death, Gugulethu, 13 Nov 2010 #4

[Britlaws]

The thing I forgot to mention in my reply about the money above was.... it's a strange coincidence that the only one whose story was materially different from the others was Mngeni and he was arrested first on 16th. So he had the least opportunity to collude with the others over their stories.

Thinking further, all of them (not SD), maybe except Mngeni to begin with, were aware of the amounts of money in the car and each had their own call history on their phones. They didn't really need much else to put the flesh on the bones of a story to implicate Dewani once they knew the game was up - maybe when the police came after Mngeni. If it was a pre planned robbery gone wrong then implicating SD wouldn't have been in their plans, so there would have had to have been some conversations between them.

 

[ColonelMustard]

What would they have gained by implicating Dewani?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

What would they have gained by implicating Dewani?

Qwabe and Tongo got a reduced sentences for implicating Dewani, so that's not a great start. But now the DT have a inmate from prison claiming Tongo revealed the facts of what actually happened. Surely this man who's serving a life sentence has struck up a deal also. It's up to the judge to decide who she believes. The case isn't strong against Dewani and the state imo, have wasted a lot of public money to extradite him, all in vain I'm afraid.

 

[Britlaws]

What would they have gained by implicating Dewani?

Well, being able to testify against him, in the absence of other evidence (because if SD was innocent there would be little other than their testimony) might get them lighter sentences once they realised the game was up and they were going to get caught. But also, putting the attention on the rich non South African as being the 'real' or main perpetrator, prepared to kill his own wife etc. etc. therefore somehow diminishing their own culpability. That happened with Mbolombo, he was a fixer, just like Tongo, one got 18 yrs and the other is still out on the streets because he minimised his role and agreed to testify against others.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Regarding the setup accusations that the state are scapegoating Dewani, could be true, it's not unheard of in many countries. The reason given is the tourist industry of SA will suffer because the killing was perpetrated by the locals of Cape Town, so blaming Dewani takes the heat off SA.

But I don't see the logic because 4 local men arranged together to rob and kill a tourist, that Dewani was behind it all doesn't exonerate these men. It's still awful advertisement for their country with either story, 'tourists targeted by local criminals' or 'tourist picks up hit man organizer at a taxi rank', how is one better than the other? So is that really a valid argument?

~ ~

I revisited the documentary, BBC Panorama - The Honeymoon Murder, Who Killed Anni Dewani? They made some valid points but omitted quite a lot of information that they were definitely aware of, so it is heavily biased in Dewani's favour. I'm not going to bother picking it apart, there isn't any other docu though that I can find, obviously not too many people are interested.

One thing I found interesting, as they were discrediting Tongo's different accounts of contact with Dewani, after the meet up where Dewani gave Tongo the money in the plastic bag, Tongo says they had no further contact after that.

Panorama exposing his lies say well actually, CCTV and phone records show Dewani called Tongo, 1 hr and 40 mins later after giving the bag and they spoke for 54 seconds. This was supposedly Tongo's 6th lie.

I'm scratching my head about how that makes Dewani look innocent? Why on earth is he calling Tongo back, what couldn't he say at the hotel that he needs a private phone conversation with him? Is it a loving farewell? Is it Dewani being kind and reassuring he will send money/ or clients to help his business? Is Dewani letting him know he will keep in contact, maybe meet up again someday? Did Dewani (if he is guilty) regret not paying the full amount Tongo claims he was owed, so he will do so in time?

If the investigating officers had any idea that Dewani was involved, they should have kept him in Cape Town a little longer and wired up Tongo to get the evidence. Following through so long afterwards hasn't benefited anyone but the killers. JMO

 

[jslk]

Qwabe and Tongo got a reduced sentences for implicating Dewani, so that's not a great start. But now the DT have a inmate from prison claiming Tongo revealed the facts of what actually happened. Surely this man who's serving a life sentence has struck up a deal also. It's up to the judge to decide who she believes. The case isn't strong against Dewani and the state imo, have wasted a lot of public money to extradite him, all in vain I'm afraid.

I'm staggered that the State's case isn't better, given all the rigmarole over extraditing him.

 

[patCee]

I can't remember now who mentioned the Panorama programme 'just got married to the girl of my dreams-why would I want to kill her'. I've just watched it and there's a police line up that includes the now convicted men. I couldn't work out who would have been identifying them. Does anyone know? Just wondering if there's another witness who hasn't been mentioned yet.

 

[Britlaws]

I can't remember now who mentioned the Panorama programme 'just got married to the girl of my dreams-why would I want to kill her'. I've just watched it and there's a police line up that includes the now convicted men. I couldn't work out who would have been identifying them. Does anyone know? Just wondering if there's another witness who hasn't been mentioned yet.

I remember thinking that when I watched it. It cant be SD as he'd gone home by then and hasn't set foot in the country since. Even if they were all seen by a witness that night, it was dark and what are the odds of a witness picking all three in a line up accurately where they had only seen them in the dark?

Has anyone seen the first Panorama programme in 2012? I can't find it on the net anywhere.

 

[Interested Bystander]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17530411

I think this is an article associated with the 2012 Panorama programme. I will continue searching.

 

[Britlaws]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17530411

I think this is an article associated with the 2012 Panorama programme. I will continue searching.

Thanks. This is the programme http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01f6qvw but I cant find any trace on the net

 

[patCee]

It also does not appear to be a co-incidence that SA Police have a witness who will testify that he gave Qwabe and Mngeni a lift to the carjacking spot and that they were running late. They missed the first appointment and had to wait for the couple to return a second time.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/anni...rape-claims-have-no-substance/960889887259421

Maybe this is a clue as to the witness in the line up.

I can't find anything for the case on Panorama 2012 either.

 

[ColonelMustard]

If Dewani is innocent, why didn't he return to SA asap and clear his name?

 

[eimajjjj]

If Dewani is innocent, why didn't he return to SA asap and clear his name?

Maybe because his wife was executed in the back of a car and he has more important things to do like dealing with extreme trauma rather than deal with half-baked claims from the killers that he organized it to get years off their sentence.

I bet he couldn't believe it when the SA police took it seriously.

[modsnip]

 

[PrimeSuspect]

This is a short video of the general area in the lobby of the Cape Grace Hotel. When you enter the Communications room (internet room) there is a long corridor first that leads into the room, so when SD met Tongo just inside, there was no way you could see people further inside the actual internet room.
IOW, there were no witnesses to the handing over of the bag even though VZ said there were a couple inside the internet room. As one can see from the video, the entrance does not lead straight into that room, so VZ is being misleading about this point. Trying too hard to paint every action SD did as innocent. ( he may very well be, but imo, SD should explain this secretive relationship he has with the man responsible for his wife's death, the police may not have been suspect of him but SD was in the car when the hijacking happened, he should have suspected Tongo, imo.)

The actual events on that day -
SD was sitting/standing in the general area with Vinod Hindocha and Mr Dewani Snr when Tongo arrived. SD did not introduce Tongo to them, but made his way to the communications room which is private, Tongo followed him well behind, as if they are not together. After giving the bag to Tongo, SD exists room right, and proceeds down the hallway to his room, he doesn't reenter the general area where VH and Mr D are sitting. So to these two gentlemen it appears that SD left their seating area with the bag and went to his room. JMO

[video=youtube;vRVUXRlzgtA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRVUXRlzgtA[/video]
Why did Tongo shove the bag under his shirt, was this SD's instructions.

Also, why did Tongo leave the communications room with the bag tucked up in his shirt? Was this SD's instructions so Vinod Hindocha and Mr D Snr. couldn't see him with the same bag? Minutes later, Tongo leaves the Cape Grace openly swinging the bag, he doesn't care, lol.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ani-handed-bag-cash-arrange-wifes-murder.html

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Maybe because his wife was executed in the back of a car and he has more important things to do like dealing with extreme trauma rather than deal with half-baked claims from the killers that he organized it to get years off their sentence.

I bet he couldn't believe it when the SA police took it seriously.

I repeat (even though I've been illogically reminded that this is a forum and to expect opinions when I'm just expressing mine) that the reasoning behind some of the posts in this thread to 'show' that he's guilty, IMO, are absurd.

You are free to express your opinions about the trial, not about other posters and how 'absurd' or 'illogical' you think their opinions are, it is against the rules and you can be reported. You've done it twice before.



EDIT: I bet he couldn't believe it when the SA police took it seriously. (You are absolutely right about that, imo)

 

[PrimeSuspect]

If Dewani is innocent, why didn't he return to SA asap and clear his name?

A very good question Col.Must. SD could have saved time and money, identified the killers for the murder of the 'love of his life'. It's been all about him from the start, never about justice for Anni. He went happily back home to England like nothing happened.

This is Anni's father and Uncle's question too.

Mr Hindocha cannot understand Shrien’s reluctance to have his denials tested. “He says he is innocent. This extradition process should not be taking place at all. He should take the first flight to South Africa and stand trial. Why is he wasting everybody’s time? Why is he talking about prison conditions when he’s innocent? Nobody has convicted him – he is just a suspect.”

Ashok Hindocha, Anni’s uncle, is equally mystified: “It is in his interests to identify the killers of his wife. He was with them for quite some time – he must have seen their faces. He needs closure as much as this family.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ill-have-no-peace-until-she-gets-justice.html

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Dewani is seen with police in the lobby of the Cape Grace Hotel where he and his wife, a Swedish engineer, were staying before they were carjacked on their way back from dinner on November 13, 2010.

His father-in-law, Vinod Hindocha, is sitting slumped in an armchair, his head resting in his hand.

In contrast, Dewani sits down and opens a laptop in front of him. He then leafs through local newspapers carrying a picture of the blood-smeared taxi his wife's body was found in, before checking his phone and laptop and talking to Captain Vinesh Lutchman, the first detective assigned to the case.

Captain Lutchman is seen to pass a newspaper to Mr Hindocha, who slowly folds it to hide the front page picture of his daughter's murder scene, and returns to his original position.

The court heard that moments before the clip was filmed, Mr Dewani met Zola Tongo, the couple's taxi driver, and handed over a plastic bag containing R1,000 (£65) in cash.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...er-than-attending-blessing-of-Annis-body.html

 

[PrimeSuspect]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-justice-honeymoon-murder-new-bride-Anni.html

 

[Interested Bystander]

Thanks. This is the programme http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01f6qvw but I cant find any trace on the net

Yes, that is the one I am looking for. The archives do not have it which rather surprised me given the current trial. Well, I spent several hours last night searching but have come up with zilch, sorry.

 

[Britlaws]

Yes, that is the one I am looking for. The archives do not have it which rather surprised me given the current trial. Well, I spent several hours last night searching but have come up with zilch, sorry.

This is one thing that does bug me to be honest. Both this programme and the channel four dispatches one have been erased from the internet, leaving just the later Panorama doc as the only real examination of the circumstances. This can only be because the Dewanis have demanded their removal, not just from the BBC/Chan 4 sites but you tube and other hosting sites where they might have appeared. Now this might be reasonable but if it were me (and I was innocent), I'd have wanted all the documentaries removed until the whole matter was settled. The fact that they are okay with the later one being there makes me wonder - did the BBC make it under pressure from them re the first one? with the resultant pro Dewani offering.

Also, it takes a lot to make you tube take videos down. There is all kinds of stuff on there that shouldn't be and it makes me think that the BBC themselves would have been the only one that could demand removal of the first panorama doc, for copyright reasons. If this happens, doesn't the page and references/comments still appear but the video space filled with a copyright notice? Channel 4 dispatches is a hard hitting often controversial programme and again, it would have taken them a lot of petitioning to get them to remove it. Anyone see both/either of these docs? Were they unfavourable to Dewani?