South Africa - Anni Dewani, 28, shot to death, Gugulethu, 13 Nov 2010 #4

[zwiebel]

Roy McKenzie ‏@RoyMcK 3 mins3 minutes ago Cape Town

I wanted to make sure that the lady must be killed that night, Mbolombo says. Judge wants a reason. Money, he admits #DewaniTrial

 

[newone]

1238
This flies in the face of Qwabe's evidence" about standing down hijacking, FvZ points out after MM says it must happen tonight.
1240
I wanted to make sure that the lady must be killed that night, MM says
. Judge wants a reason.
Money, he admits.
1241
Court breaks for lunch.
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/LIVE-Dewani-in-court-day-18-20141110-3

 

[zwiebel]

Well. The judge's 'I'm going to ask you for the last time', sounded distinctly like a warning to MM to me. But of what, I wonder?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Leigh-Anne Jansen ‏@LA_JANSEN 3m3 minutes ago

Traverso: i'm going to ask you the last time. Who said it was a matter of must?

MM: Tongo.

Traverso: When?

MM: When we were driving to my work, My Lady.

((Court adjourns for lunch))

(DT and Judge trying to find out who was the persistent one, if it was Tongo (he says SD said again that night, it MUST happen tonight!) he would have called Mondo to call Qwabe to make sure it happened. If there was no call between Tongo and Mondo at that time, well, we're left with Tongo's word that SD pressured him again (outside Surfside), OR that Tongo did on his behalf.) JMO

 

[newone]

There's an old legal aphorism that goes,
"If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts.
If you have the law on your side, pound the law.
If you have neither on your side, pound the table."

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pound_the_table

 

[jslk]

If we were to apply Occam's Razor type thinking to this case, what would be the simplest explanation? I'm struggling due to lack of detail and muddied detail.

 

[Britlaws]

Nothing so far today contradicts the defence version of pre planned robbery of SD and his wife. That HAD to be done on the Saturday night, as that was the only night the money would be in the car. If it was for helicopter trip/tours/whatever that Tongo failed to arrange, SD would have, with only a short stay in Cape Town, told Tongo thanks but no thanks and gone elsewhere.

Mbolombo knows hes going to be prosecuted and has known that for a long time. He keeps saying "I don't want to lie" "I am here to tell the truth" because he wants a lighter punishment.

 

[JudgeJudi]

A hotel receptionist granted immunity for his part in the honeymoon murder of a Bristol businessman's new wife may yet face prosecution, a South African judge has said.

http://www.independent.ie/world-new...r-case-may-yet-face-prosecution-30726116.html

 

[newone]

why not kill both of them if it was just a simple robbery?

 

[Britlaws]

why not kill both of them if it was just a simple robbery?

Who the heck knows what goes through the minds of people like this... a simple answer would be if they threw Tongo out alone, there would be two versus two with one of them driving....not impossible that they could have been overpowered, even with a gun.

I am not a Dewani sympathiser, just playing devils advocate here.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

why not kill both of them if it was just a simple robbery?

I agree. Also, why did SD hide the ring in the car, most hijackings the car is stolen, later found burnt out or remodeled.

So SD was confident the car would come back, they both hadn't been transferred to another vehicle or place? jmo

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I'm also a little bothered with VZ asking witnesses what other people talk about, why doesn't the PT object?

 

[newone]

I'm also a little bothered with VZ asking witnesses what other people talk about, why doesn't the PT object?

thank you --- that was really bothering me too......whatever the answer it would be ''questionable''/hearsay.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/hearsay

 

[Britlaws]

I agree. Also, why did SD hide the ring in the car, most hijackings the car is stolen, later found burnt out or remodeled.

So SD was confident the car would come back, they both hadn't been transferred to another vehicle or place? jmo

The cars wont be burned out after robberies with taxis where the driver is part of it... and the police officer (whose name escapes me) last week testified that these happen. The car is worth more than the drivers cut of the looty.

What I cant understand is the car wash thing- what the heck would be the point of that for Tongo? his vehicle being involved in a terrible crime where he says he's a victim and he intends to pick the car up and take it to a car wash?! Either of the other two returning to the vehicle to take it to a car wash would also be madness. Weird.

 

[newone]

I agree. Also, why did SD hide the ring in the car, most hijackings the car is stolen, later found burnt out or remodeled.

So SD was confident the car would come back, they both hadn't been transferred to another vehicle or place? jmo

Wonder if this is a case of a double cross so that SD could defend his position it was not a case of murder for hire. MOO

 

[PrimeSuspect]

The cars wont be burned out after robberies with taxis where the driver is part of it... and the police officer (whose name escapes me) last week testified that these happen. The car is worth more than the drivers cut of the looty.

What I cant understand is the car wash thing- what the heck would be the point of that for Tongo? his vehicle being involved in a terrible crime where he says he's a victim and he intends to pick the car up and take it to a car wash?! Either of the other two returning to the vehicle to take it to a car wash would also be madness. Weird.

Very true, but SD didn't know that.

The car wash thing is strange.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I am late to the table today so have just "flown" through all the tweets. Thank you guys. I don't know how you keep up. I also had a quick look at Leigh-Anne Jensen's tweets as she also seems fairly reliable.

I noted that vZL stated that Dewani had NEVER been to South Africa before. So it seems all the stories about him being involved in an earlier hijack are rubbish. I am not suprised. It sounded a bit far-fetched to me and I had already assigned it to the bin. However, did not Tongo mention this? Methinks that Tongo has been in this situation before and it wouldn't surprise me if MM and Tongo had been involved together in this sort of crime. Here is the tweet.

Leigh-Anne Jansen‏@LA_JANSEN3h3 hours ago
#DewaniTrial @eNCAnews MM: It's pretty clear he didn'ttell the truth. VZ: The accused has never been in the country before....
12:13 am - 10 Nov2014

 

[zwiebel]

I've been confusing myself trying to translate a tweet in Afrikaans. Does Hof mean court any speakers, or courtyard?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I am late to the table today so have just "flown" through all the tweets. Thank you guys. I don't know how you keep up. I also had a quick look at Leigh-Anne Jensen's tweets as she also seems fairly reliable.

I noted that vZL stated that Dewani had NEVER been to South Africa before. So it seems all the stories about him being involved in an earlier hijack are rubbish. I am not suprised. It sounded a bit far-fetched to me and I had already assigned it to the bin. However, did not Tongo mention this? Methinks that Tongo has been in this situation before and it wouldn't surprise me if MM and Tongo had been involved together in this sort of crime. Here is the tweet.

Leigh-Anne Jansen‏@LA_JANSEN3h3 hours ago
#DewaniTrial @eNCAnews MM: It's pretty clear he didn'ttell the truth. VZ: The accused has never been in the country before....
12:13 am - 10 Nov2014

I agree, there is no substance to the rumour that SD is linked to Dr Raghavjee's death.

 

[zwiebel]

Interesting that defence is now saying Dewani had never been to SA before. That was mentioned in court in England. You'd have thought it would have been revealed as untrue then, by Dewani's lawyers.

'City of Westminster Magistrates Court heard that Tongo has accused Mr Dewani of trying to orchestrate a similar hit on a previous visit to South Africa, London's the Daily Mail has reported.

The Mail reported that Tongo was convinced the businessman had earlier "arranged for someone to be killed in a fake hijacking".'

http://www.smh.com.au/world/honeymo...o-orchestrate-similar-hit-20101209-18rod.html