South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #3

[JudgeJudi]

It's becoming increasingly obvious the defence has little if anything to work with. Desperate times call for desperate measures. I'm so sick of this defence team.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Court is adjourned to Thursday.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/N...secutor-as-van-breda-trial-continues-20170808

 

[Interested Bystander]

So the DT team now wants all paperwork on a sample that contained no DNA and was suspected to be animal blood. More time to be wasted on a red herring.

 

[Tortoise]

I missed that, stepped away to make a cup of tea. What's preventing them working this afternoon?

 

[Interested Bystander]

It's becoming increasingly obvious the defence has little if anything to work with. Desperate times call for desperate measures. I'm so sick of this defence team.

JJ are judges allowed to intervene when it looks as though there is a huge degree of timewasting going on?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

Otto: Yes I do I agree it is crucial but this is why SOPS. If I had one suspect one victim one blood stain on tshirt of suspect

I will do that one blood stain.

So yes its crucial but we have training, look at the evidentiary value, but at anytime during investigation we can always go back

Otto: we can go back and analyse more samples. Combrink: so its crucial, Otto- yes

Combrink: Wants to hand up the SOP's to the witness - *it's a huge file*

Galloway has no objection to the SOP's but wants Combrink to confirm

Combrink: back to exhibit 63. Otto; this was compiled by our national office in pretoria tomorrow is a public holiday I wont be going into the laboratory tomorrow to compile another report

I need to know from the defence, we submitted this report. There was possible blood, no DNA result obtained, I cant go further

Otto: I wont be able to give you the paper trail. There was blood evidence no DNA I can't take it further than this

Combrink: You introduced the evidence not the defence and yesterday handed up one paper, we will have to deal with that.

Desai: court will not continue this afternoon for various reasons. Tomorrow is a public holiday we will sit on Thursday & Friday

 

[Tortoise]

Warning, do not follow SA cases if you have a blood pressure problem. And if you didn't have a problem before, you will develop one.

 

[Interested Bystander]

The DT has handed a lot of paperwork over that needs reading and they have also asked for paperwork on the negative blood sample which Otto said she could not provide because it is a holiday tomorrow and she would not be in the lab.

 

[JudgeJudi]

JJ are judges allowed to intervene when it looks as though there is a huge degree of timewasting going on?

Desai can't know if counsel will ultimately be getting to some particular point so he has to let the matter run its course. Barry Roux did the same by asking the same question over and over and over. A lot of latitude is given to the defence, particularly when you're dealing with something like murder, because any excuse will be used as a reason to appeal.

 

[Really?]

Thanks for all the updates.......I slept in....see ya Thursday!

 

[JudgeJudi]

as other trial watchers are saying, Combrink/Botha wears the witness down until they agree, like a slow torture. :/

Neither of them will wear Otto down. She has a massive amount of experience ... and it shows. She doesn't seem the slightest bit perturbed by any of Combrink's questions and seems to actually be enjoying her time on the stand.

 

[Fluffykins]

Seems like the defence don't have a leg to stand on so they're deflecting.

Yes, it does seem to be quite pointless quibbling. Sorry for coming from such a long way back, I'm catching up!

 

[Tortoise]

The assessor sitting with Judge Desai is a DNA expert I believe.

 

[Tortoise]

[FONT=&quot]Desai stroked his moustache‚ Botha’s colleague Matthys Combrink scratched his head with his pen and‚ for most of the morning‚ Henri van Breda played with his ring like a fidget-spinner.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]http://www.heraldlive.co.za/news/2017/06/07/van-breda-trial-continues-high-court-cape-town/

This was a report from June. It seems he has a bit of a ring-spinning compulsion.
[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[Interested Bystander]

[FONT="]Desai stroked his moustache‚ Botha’s colleague Matthys Combrink scratched his head with his pen and‚ for most of the morning‚ [B]Henri van Breda played with his ring like a fidget-spinner.

[/B][/FONT][/COLOR][/I][COLOR=#444444][FONT="]http://www.heraldlive.co.za/news/2017/06/07/van-breda-trial-continues-high-court-cape-town/

This was a report from June. It seems he has a bit of a ring-spinning compulsion.
[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]

What on earth could be hugely significant I wonder.

I loved Desai's intervention:-

"Earlier in the morning too‚ when Botha spent several minutes focusing on what had and had not been photographed at the scene‚ Desai told Botha: “Please remember‚ Mr Botha‚ that we are both [Desai and the assessor] experienced and you need not conduct this cross-examination as if it is for a jury. I am not stopping you from cross-examining but I am pointing out that many of the points you make‚ which may sound nice‚ are not going anywhere.”

A touch of grandstanding methinks.

 

[Tortoise]

Yes, some kind of OCD. The manner of his walk, and walking alone, gives me the impression he is a bit robotic and has a disorder of some sort.

 

[Tortoise]

I often wonder what the laughing was about. If he was laughing while he was killing, was it deliberate to stop Marli from thinking there was a problem, or was it that he was amused?

 

[Interested Bystander]

I have not been too sure it was laughing. I hear more of a stressed huffing and puffing. Hyperventilation can cause a similar sound and as we all will know hyperventilation can happen when one is very stressed and he had every reason to be badly stressed.

http://www.dailybulldog.com/db/health/huffing-and-puffing-the-health-impact-of-improper-breathing/

"However, there are other systemic factors that can negatively impact proper breathing technique, such as heart disease, obesity, muscular and skeletal injuries, deformities, or adaptations, and anxiety or tension.

When a person unconsciously hyperventilates, or breathes quickly and shallowly (as seen in a state of anxiety, for example), the body undergoes pH changes, resulting in some or several of these symptoms: fatigue, neurological symptoms such as reduced cognition, tingling, numbness, muscle tension, muscle cramping, increased heart rate, spasming of the arteries, and reduced cerebral, coronary, and superficial blood flow."

Edit. Hyperventilation is rapid overbreathing but if one tries to speak during the overbreathing it sounds like a word or two and then an intake of breath. Difficult to describe and I cannot find any video on speaking during hyperventilation. Hyperventilation per se without speech is not the same.

 

[Tortoise]

Do you think it would be possible to carry out such sustained attacks while hyperventilating? Personally I have doubts about that, having suffered a bad episode once a long time ago. I wondered more if the laughing was true and he thought a neighbour might have heard it. Another possibility is if the family were all screaming and shouting at him he wanted to drown out the sound and pretend they were laughing at a horror movie.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Do you think it would be possible to carry out such sustained attacks while hyperventilating? Personally I have doubts about that, having suffered a bad episode once a long time ago. I wondered more if the laughing was true and he thought a neighbour might have heard it. Another possibility is if the family were all screaming and shouting at him he wanted to drown out the sound and pretend they were laughing at a horror movie.

No definitely not. I very much doubt whether he would hyperventilate until he realised the enormity of his problem and the need to call the police to report it. I accept there are other possibilities but the "laughing" was picked up on the phone call to the police, unless I am misremembering.