South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #4

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

Henri is back in the witnesss box after the tea break, he has chosen to sit down this morning

G: motion of the attacker flicking the knife back and forth is when u sustained the injuries to your forearm? H:correct

G: I find it difficult to believe and put it to you its strange this person has just viciously attacked your father and brother

G:u have no way of knowing he may have a different intent he is still holding the same axe and laughing as he did when he attacked

G; your father- so in all likelihood he is coming to execute a similar type of attack on you? H: correct

G: when it only took one blow to disable your father? Why did he attack you differently? H: I don't know

H: I was surprised by how easily I took the axe from him

G: he could have just came at you and stabbed you in the heart? H: he tried he came at me with all his might

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

G: and all he manages to do is inflict very superficial and definitely not fatal wounds? H: correct

G: and all that time u were not aware that u were stronger than him? H: I dont recall saying I was stronger than him

G: Marli was the one who fought back the hardest H: I am aware of that

G: Marli was not successful in defending the attacker? H: correct

Henri is clearly uncomfortable with Marli and her fight for her life being raised

 

[JudgeJudi]

According to evidence, Marli fought back the hardest; evident in defensive wounds. She was a 16-year-old girl, Galloway says.

VanBreda says he was scared and overwhelmed. Galloway: So you were still holding back? No, he says.

None of your wounds appeared to fit description of defensive wounds. #VanBreda: if it doesnt appear that way then so be it.

#VanBreda says he didn't self-inflict any harm. Galloway says textbook - similar in nature, depth, parallel. Conforms to self-infliction.

[url]https://twitter.com/TeamNews24[/URL]

 

[L2L]

I've lost live feed!! Anyone else?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

G:u say that you fought for ur life but none of your wounds appear to be defensive wounds? H:if they dont appear that way so be it

G: your wounds were described as self inflicted H: I recall that evidence and refute it I did not self inflict any marks on myself

G:textbook description of Self inflicted wounds- similar depth, width parallel

H: I agree that they do conform to those descriptions yes but dont agree that they were self inflicted they were not

G: Considering your demonstration of the incident what struck me is that not once did you instruct malan to move his feet

H: I don't remember exactly where we were, I remember sort of pushing

G: during this movement how is attacker able to injure you by flicking his wrist and creating almost parallel lines on ur forearm

 

[Fluffykins]

RSBM

So Martin was recovering from bowel cancer but immediately went to Rudi’s aid while the gutless wonder, who was the largest and strongest male in the family … did nothing.

Well, it would be much better for Henri if Judge Desai would buy that version of events, wouldn't it? But I'm tipping he won't.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

H: the attacker managed to create these parallel lines on my forearm as the events demonstrated in courts

G: was it also your version that the horizontal lines on upper part of your torso was also created by the movement of the knife? H: yes

G:1 of the criteria of self inflicted wounds is that they appear linear and Tiemensma said if there was movement they woudnt

Desai asks that quesion be withdrawn

G: another aspect of fight, the knife blade was pointing downwards and sharp edge of blade pointing away from the attacker

H: yes it was that motion that resulted in me losing grip of his hand

G: motion of him turning his arm clockwise which resulted in stabbing on your left side

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

G: so the knife is now in my left side, pointing the blade downwards H: no the blade was more of an angle

H: that was the way he was holding the knife at that point

G: you then grabbed the knife with your right hand by the blade to pull it out?

H: with my thumb on the blade yes

G: so this would cause my thumb to be at an angle with the blade?

 

[JudgeJudi]

Galloway says not once did #VanBreda in re-enactment instruct Malan to move feet. He can't remember foot movements, but it did move, he says.

How is attacker able to injure you by flicking wrist and creating parallel lines on your forearm? #VanBreda says he did it, despite movement.

Galloway re-enacting the stabbing on herself. #VanBreda directing her. Explains how he removed the knife.

VanBreda handed knife and shows how the knife was lodged in his side and how he removed it.

What were you doing with your left hand? #VanBreda says his hand was in pain after the scuffle. Can't remember what he did with it.

[url]https://twitter.com/TeamNews24[/URL]

 

[JudgeJudi]

After hitting attacker, he used the same hand the axe was in to remove the knife from his side.

You didn't use axe to attack him further? #VanBreda: correct.

Rudi and Martin #VanBreda still on bed.

What was your intention in chasing after him? Just in an effort to flush them out of house.

[url]https://twitter.com/TeamNews24[/URL]

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

G: the other issue is what were u doing with your left hand when u moved your knife with your right hand?

H: my left hand was in quite a bit of pain after gripping and twisting his hand

H: I cant remember what I was doing with it

G: Olifant thought it strange that you used the hand you were holding the axe in to remove the knife

H: I am not sure I definitely pulled the knife out immediately perhaps because I had struck attacker and that hand was close

H: I am not sure why I used that hand

G: when he let go of the weapons, you didnt use the axe to attack him further other than blow to right shoulder? H: correct

G: and u did not immediately follow him? H: No G: what did you do after you pulled the knife out H: I hesitated for a moment

H: I am not sure why I hesitated and then followed him

G: and rudi was on his bed at that time and your father also on Rudi's bed? H: yes

G: what was your intention after you hesitated and then started following?

H: I am not sure I dont remember specifically deciding ok I am going to chase after him G: but u did eventually H: I did

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

G: u did nothing while father, brother attacked and then aware of mother and sisters attack

G: Aware of mother and sister's potential attack?

H: I should have been aware that the attacker would also attack my mother and sister

G: the reason why you didnt warn your mother is cause you were too scared H: no I didnt think about it

G: but now that you are alone in the sense u are the only male person in the house now you find the courage to follow attacker

H: yes I think that it was maybe as a result of him running away

G: as far as you are concerned there could have been 2/3 or more people downstairs

 

[JudgeJudi]

Now you find the courage to follow your intruder?
#VanBreda: probably as a result of him running away. Got confidence. [Hahahaha]

There could be others in house, armed similarly. You exit, see attacker on stairs and throw axe. #VanBreda: yes. Aware knife was in room

#VanBreda says he didn't consciously decide to throw the axe.

Galloway: Implies you're handing it back to attacker.

VB: Not a wise move.

How fall forward, and land on your back? #VanBreda: if you roll forward.

He can't recall how he landed this way.

VanBreda can't remember if axe was within reach. Can't recall noticing it.

[url]https://twitter.com/TeamNews24[/URL]

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

G: I presume you werent aware if they were armed similar to the person in your room? H: correct

G: You now have the confidence to follow them and chase these people out of your house? H: yes

G: you then throw the axe at him? H: yes G: at that point you didnt know where the knife was? H: I presume in the room

Desai: why did u throw the axe? H: I didnt actively decide to throw the axe instinctively I knew I was a slow runner

G: u also didnt keep the knife to protect yourself? U dropped it? H: yes

G: throwing the axe at the attacker you are basically handing it back to attacker H:yes I agree not a wise move

H: I fell at the point that I was throwing the axe

H: I ended up landing on my back I cant recall how the motion started

G: but how can u roll forward and end up on your back? H: I could have rolled G: did you roll? H: not that I can recall

G: when u landed were u aware of the axe being in reach? H: no I cant recall noticing the axe

G: when one compares ur injuries with those sustained by rest of your family all sustained serious injuries 2 head & neck area

G; inference drawn is that they were all attacked with a similar type of weapon, H: correct

 

[JudgeJudi]

VanBreda family suffered head and neck injuries, sustained with similar type weapon.

VanBreda doesn't know man's intent.
Galloway: If you hit someone several times over head with an axe, intent clear - you want to kill them.

VanBreda said last time he saw Rudi was immediately after the attack when he went after the attacker. He was on bed, moving about violently.

Martin and Rudi #VanBreda were next to each other. Martin never moved over Rudi - where he was headed - as he was hit.

[url]https://twitter.com/TeamNews24[/URL]

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

G: and u confirmed as far as u are aware, all attacked by the same attacker with same weapon and same intent

H: I cant speak for his intent but the rest yes G: Mr van breda with respect if u hit someone on the head with axe intent is clear

G: you want to kill them

G: Now you have no injuries close to your head no injuries similar and you were attacked by the same attacker

H: but with a different weapon G: but initially the same weapon H: correct

G: last time u saw ur brother Rudi was immediately after the attack when u were following after the attacker H: correct

G: where was he at that time? H: on the bed

G: u mentioned that at that time u saw him moving about violently?

Desai was Martin on top of him? H: yes

G: I also got the impression that when your father went for attacker he appeared to move over Rudi? H thats where he was heading

(HvB says Hmm, when the Judge asks questions, he's being terribly rude! Yet we've seen how polite he CAN be.)

 

[JudgeJudi]

VanBreda heard Rudi making gurgling sounds while on the stairs and in the kitchen. Marli was also still alive.

Galloway says it may have been Marli making the gurgling sounds. #VanBreda: it might have been.

Doesn't mention this is in his police statement. #VanBreda in plea explanation said he saw Rudi in peripheral view moving violently.

VanBreda: fact that it's not in the statement doesn't mean I didn't tell the police that.

[url]https://twitter.com/TeamNews24[/URL]

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

G: what types of moves was Rudi making? H: random shaking moves, convulsions

G: after u came to, u mentioned that u again heard the gurgling sounds u initially heard? H:I heard them from the stairs & kitchen

G: at that point in time Marli was still alive? H: in the morning, correct

G: it might as well have been Marli making the gurgling sounds? H: it might have been

G: in statement u say nothing about Rudi after the incident between u and your attacker

G: but in your plea explanation u say u remember Rudi moving around on the bed

H: I still remembered that detail when I gave the statement, fact it is not included is not that I didnt say it

G: so this isnt added to explain Joubert's evidence that Rudi moved and was handled on the scene? H: no

G: when did u become aware that your mother and sister had been attacked? H: I dont think I processed what I saw when I left

H: the room I think I only realised it when I came back upstairs

G: u say u saw your mother and sister lying outside the room as u exited it,at some level u must have known then they were attacked

G: it never came to your mind oh my word they were also attacked? H: I did not think that

H: I did not process it

Desai: u didnt hear your mother or sister screaming? H : no I dont recall any sounds which confuses me


https://twitter.com/HiRezLife

Describing Rudi's death throes: "Random movements." Desai: Were they convulsions? "Yes."

could hear Rudi's gurgling sounds from kitchen. (Rudi was in upstairs bedroom). Sounds like Rudi tried hard to live, cry out.

 

[JudgeJudi]

When did you become aware mother and sister also attacked?
#VanBreda: I can recall the doorway being clear and seeing them on my way out.

VanBreda: Didn't process what I saw there. Realised when I came back. Don't recall any sounds from the attack. This confuses me.

VanBreda can't recall exact position where Teresa and Marli's bodies were, but not as it was in the photos. Doorway was unobstructed.

How did Marli's feet end up in door? #VanBreda: she must've moved there during time between events. Saw her move one leg; random flailing.

[url]https://twitter.com/TeamNews24[/URL]

I can’t get this vision of Madame Defarge out of my head.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

G:in ur statement no mention is made of Marli or your mother only when u come back up the stairs u saw them and lost consciousness

G: why did u not include that u saw ur mother and marli when u exited the room, in ur statement H: I did tell them

G: distinct that u say u cant recall exact position of Marli but u are certain her feet were not inside the door as in picture?

H: Yes and I know this as the doorway was unobstructed

G: that is what they took the photos and that is how they found Marli specifically on the scene

G: please explain how her feet ended up in the room door? She must have moved there in the time between the two events

H: I saw her move her one leg and arm similar to flailing of Rudi

H: AT one point I saw her one hand go through her hair

G: first possibility is marli attacked in the room inside the door and fallen backwards? Neither u nor attacker fell over her feet

G; when u exited the room? H:correct
G:u would have been much more aware they were lying there as u would have had to climb over

H; yes of course

G: u said u had told the police that u did see marli and your mother in the passage? H: I did relay it plenty of times

G: and when he wrote your statement down? H: I did relay my version to Sgt Malan but I did not relay the police statement


https://twitter.com/HiRezLife

Botha jumps up. Galloway sits banging her fist on counter. "With respect..." "With respect, let the witness answer!"

"No I can't specifically recall." Or stutter. So much for the vaunted speech impediment.