Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #1

[mrjitty]

Its interesting she submitted late in the day ... did she descend in the dark?

 

[PeggyHenry]

Its interesting she submitted late in the day ... did she descend in the dark?

I think she summited at approximately 4pm leaving around an hour or so of daylight to get to the refuge. So she wasn’t necessarily intending to descend that evening.. although to my understanding there was no evidence of her reaching refuge.

 

[whitelilac]

I've been following. I'm also an avid hiker and climber, and am well aware that no matter how experienced one is, unexpected and life threatening things can happen. For that reason alone, I never hike solo.

Here on the west coast, a number of hikers have vanished, quite recently, and are still to be found regardless of the massive searches.

I personally do not believe that Esther disappeared voluntarily and agree with others that if she and her partner were at a point of foreseeing different futures, they would have parted amicably. She would also have let loved ones know she was safe, and why would she have abandoned her van?

As for foul play?....it's possible, but I lean more to an accident.

 

[kristina1709]

With hindsight, I should have written "The subtle linguistic differences that others appear to see may not be apparent to the French and Spanish police ...". I have barely skimmed through Esther's FB entries, let alone tried to analyse their written style, so I was not expressing my personal opinion about them. I was making a general observation, albeit it clumsily, in reply to the views being put forward by other posters.

You can see words missing, words jumbled up, put together in what seems a haste and not corrected etc. Different to her other posts.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Yes, it is a part of the picture and therefore worth taking note of ... but difficult to say how relevant. The DM (and yes they are sensationalists) seemed to be trying to make a point of the fact that while Esther was willing to go hiking regardless of lockdown, Dan was not. However, hiking in the mountains is probably a very low risk activity and was more important to her wellbeing than being cooped up. I cant see how it will turn out to be very relevant to what actually has happened to Esther though..

re bolded: I thought we knew that Dan had stayed behind due to a commitment to housesit, not because he was uninterested or unwilling to hike during lockdown? I don't have link, just memory, and am asking what others remember.

I’ve got a bit out of sync I think but I’d like to make a couple of points. Dan went on National TV the other morning. He was clearly in deep shock and didn’t do himself any favours and instantly trial by media ensued in the comments section.

According to their spokesperson he is releasing a statement next week.

Is there a link to this interview please?

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

 

[Bickles]

<modsnip>

Missing Esther Dingley's secrets, by the last man to see her alive | Daily Mail Online

 

[10ofRods]

I think it's a very real possibility that when she was almost back home with her partner and 5 dogs, loving the freedom, she gave herself that wee bit of risk to mark the end of climbing mountains until the next time.

One misstep on black ice or the thrill of stepping off the path is enough to start feet slipping out from under and whoosh - nothing to stop the fall, straight into the lake which in itself is not deadly, but a long slide in full gear wearing a backpack - no way to get out of it even for top athletes.

What's the point of divers? How deep is the lake? Word is that bodies surface in the Spring. Why should anyone put their lives in jeopardy for a reckless solo hiker?

I totally agree about not having divers - body recovery is too dangerous. If she was wearing a 50 pound pack, as reported/surmised, she might never surface. If the lake is deep (looks deep to me), the bones would slowly abrade in the depths (at least, that's possible). OTOH, some bones might wash up. Could happen, but I think a lot of missing persons who went into water with backpacks fail to surface at the usual 2-3 weeks. There are a couple of cases of this type in Yosemite National Park (so of course, I'm always looking for bone fragments aside the Merced River).

She could indeed have rag-dolled down into the lake at several different points. I've seen lectures how to judge momentum on various slopes, but we'd need to know where she fell to really estimate.

I too think the lake cannot be ruled out.

 

[Grouse]

re bolded: I thought we knew that Dan had stayed behind due to a commitment to housesit, not because he was uninterested or unwilling to hike during lockdown? I don't have link, just memory, and am asking what others remember.

<snipped by me> yes I thought exactly that. If they were being paid to housesit surely one of them has to stay and er actually housesit?

 

[ZaZara]

Is this the article?

Missing Esther Dingley's secrets, by the last man to see her alive | Daily Mail Online

It says she started at a point called Plan d'Estany.

I found this route that includes both Plan d'Estany and the Salvaguardia

Salvaguardia per Canal de Peña Blanca, Pòrt de Benás, Basses de Portillón i Ibons de Plan d’Están des de Hospital de Benasque

"Classic, beautiful and panoramic route starting from the Hospital de Benasque (Ribagorza / Huesca) in which we will go back the historical path that follows the Canal de Peña Blanca to the Port of Benás (or Benasque), beginning of an optional optional section that it will take us to crown the summit of the Tuca de Salvaguardia (2738m), a great viewpoint of much of the Pyrenees. To complete the circle we will go down the Clots del Port, the Bassetes del Portillón, the Camí de les Marrades, the Ibonets de Plan d’Están and the Pleta dels Aranesos. The fact that the whole route runs along milled paths and trails combined with the absence of technical difficulties make it a very affordable high mountain route.

Note: the route passes through clear trails and paths with many signposted sections.

Walking time was a little over 6 hours.

BBM

 

[patCee]

Missing Esther Dingley's secrets, by the last man to see her alive | Daily Mail Online
More re her conversation with Antonio Ballarin, who gave her a lift for 5 miles, when she talked about a possible alternative route. 2 useful maps showing clearly her planned route and possible alternative route. Otherwise we're no further forward with what may have happened to her. Did she attempt a route into France? or did she go back down from the summit of Pic de Sauvegarde, that day, bearing in mind it would have been late afternoon and getting dark or did she camp overnight and go down the next day, possibly getting a lift from someone to her camper. Or did she attempt the route to Bagneres de Louchon, France? Would the latter involve another overnight camp? Did she have enough food and water to take the route to France?

 

[Grouse]

I totally agree about not having divers - body recovery is too dangerous.

<snipped for focus>

To be honest given the scale of the search so far I'm very surprised if those lakes that sit between the Pic de Sauvegarde where Esther was last seen, and the refuge de Venasque where she was headed (the obvious search locations given her planned route) haven't been checked before the weather deteriorated. They are inland lakes that really don't look very big in the scheme of things. I'm not a professional diver (I do have a friend who is so maybe should check with him) but if that is what is regarded as dangerous to a professional diving team I am very surprised. Failing that submersible drones would soon be able to check a small lake like that surely.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Is this the article?

Missing Esther Dingley's secrets, by the last man to see her alive | Daily Mail Online

Good old DM. Shouts about the "last man to see her alive" then goes on to say the last man to see her alive was someone completely different.

Interesting that her conversation with this Spanish man, from which a couple of hinky questions arose, was conducted in French while wearing a face mask. Hardly the most reliable information exchange.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Good old DM. Shouts about the "last man to see her alive" then goes on to say the last man to see her alive was someone completely different.

Interesting that her conversation with this Spanish man, from which a couple of hinky questions arose, was conducted in French while wearing a face mask. Hardly the most reliable information exchange.

I was thinking the exact same! I studied languages at Uni and that to my mind would be a very fractured conversation. A Spaniard speaking French to an English woman wearing a mask, whilst he is driving. Also, she has shared details of a new route with this stranger, but not with her own family. Tried to show him on her phone. Even at 20mph, a 5 mile journey will take 15 mins max. They got acquainted v quickly in that time. I'm not convinced.

JMO

 

[azure]

I was thinking the exact same! I studied languages at Uni and that to my mind would be a very fractured conversation. A Spaniard speaking French to an English woman wearing a mask, whilst he is driving. Also, she has shared details of a new route with this stranger, but not with her own family. Tried to show him on her phone. Even at 20mph, a 5 mile journey will take 15 mins max. They got acquainted v quickly in that time. I'm not convinced.

JMO

As someone who travels abroad a lot, this interaction rings fairly true to me. If she had any uncertainty at all about her route, I can see her showing someone who was presumably more familiar with the terrain her path on her phone, even in a short period of time.

 

[patCee]

Missing Esther Dingley's secrets, by the last man to see her alive | Daily Mail Online
More re her conversation with Antonio Ballarin, who gave her a lift for 5 miles, when she talked about a possible alternative route. 2 useful maps showing clearly her planned route and possible alternative route. Otherwise we're no further forward with what may have happened to her. Did she attempt a route into France? or did she go back down from the summit of Pic de Sauvegarde, that day, bearing in mind it would have been late afternoon and getting dark or did she camp overnight and go down the next day, possibly getting a lift from someone to her camper. Or did she attempt the route to Bagneres de Louchon, France? Would the latter involve another overnight camp? Did she have enough food and water to take the route to France?

I believe it's been reported that the searchers could find no sign that anyone had used the Refuge de Vanesque a possible route from the summit before going down or moving on. There is some confirmation that the following day ED returned to the Pico Salvagardia (is that the summit?) after a short hike in the area.
Mr Ballarin talked about dangerous lakes in the area, and a lot of perilous deep water pits near Louchon. However he reports that ED seemed a sensible, capable person and he did not feel worried about her.
Missing Esther Dingley's secrets, by the last man to see her alive | Daily Mail Online

 

[Sillybilly]

Hey everyone,

Who are we to believe? Who do we choose to believe?

The snippet in the paywalled article from The Times (the article that states she may have deliberately gone missing) does not name a source or contain any direct quotes from any LE sources.

By direct contrast, the Daily Mail article of the same date (also no named sources but does at least contain a direct quote from somebody ?? ) says:

A French investigating source said the possibility that she has walked down the mountain and is somewhere in Spain or France has ‘pretty much been ruled out completely’.

The source added: ‘By now she would have made contact with somebody. She is a very intelligent and capable woman who understands her responsibilities. There is no way that she would just ignore everybody.’

It is a very basic WS policy not to blame a Missing Person / victim for their own disappearance or speculate / insinuate that it is some kind of hoax perpetrated by a victim.

More and more these days, we seem to have members willing to jump on the bandwagon to blame a victim. This is not who we are and not what Websleuths is.

Please folks, as a victim friendly forum, choose to err on the side of the victim. As long as we have not heard a direct quote from LE that Esther is voluntarily missing or that this is some hoax, do not speculate on such a scenario. Your post will be removed and you may lose posting privileges, either temporarily or permanently.

 

[otto]

Yes, it is a part of the picture and therefore worth taking note of ... but difficult to say how relevant. The DM (and yes they are sensationalists) seemed to be trying to make a point of the fact that while Esther was willing to go hiking regardless of lockdown, Dan was not. However, hiking in the mountains is probably a very low risk activity and was more important to her wellbeing than being cooped up. I cant see how it will turn out to be very relevant to what actually has happened to Esther though..

Not only are there are very few witnesses who can tell authorities where she was last seen, French SAR must set aside covid precautions to search for her. There is a possibility that there were fewer people to search and that search protocols were different than under normal circumstances - hard to say.

 

[Atoz]

Just popping this in here as there's been discussion around lakes. I recently found out that cadaver dogs can sometimes pick up a scent from a body that has been submerged at the bottom of a lake. Even if they've been there for some time.

I just found that interesting. Personally I don't think she's in a lake.

 

[Grouse]

Is this the article?

Missing Esther Dingley's secrets, by the last man to see her alive | Daily Mail Online

There was a previous post about the lift from Senor Ballarin but this one states that they were talking in French "because she spoke no Spanish and he no English" so this now confirms what I thought - translation errors. All this about her going off to Toulouse - the farmhouse Dan was staying at and that Esther was planning to return to - was in , wait for it .... Toulouse!! It's a non-story IMO.

 

[Grouse]

Personally I don't think she's in a lake.

Personally based on what exactly?