Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #2

[otto]

What does D125W mean? ... from the map you posted.

If it means 45 minutes, which is unlikely, we could pinpoint exactly where she was a 5:30 PM.

 

[otto]

Trail from Hospice de France to Port de Venasque from the France side of the border.

Another photo of the trail along the lake. The path splits, lake trail or main path:

Maybe she chose the lake trail to reach the Refuge de Venasque at 5 PM. She could have walked down this trail around 4:45 PM.

It's not a long fall, but if someone slipped at that point, there wouldn't be much to stop the fall.

Randonnée Pic Sauvegarde 2738m – Les Topos Pyrénées par Mariano

 

[otto]

Switchbacks on the trail from Hospice de France to the Refuge de Venasque.

Randonnée Pic Sauvegarde 2738m – Les Topos Pyrénées par Mariano

 

[otto]

"Falling into a crevasse" leaves me wondering what that means.

I don't see a crevasse in any of the photos and video footage of the trails between Benasque, Pic de Sauvegarde, Port de Venasque, Refuge de Venasque and Hospice de France. By crevasse, do they mean she fell off a mountain into a crevasse between mountains, or an unmarked crevasse near a hiking trail?

“If she deviated from her itinerary and went off piste, she could have had an accident, fallen into a crevasse, and if that’s the case …” He paused. “With the snow, it’s possible we won’t know until the spring.”​

'We have nothing': police stumped by disappearance of Briton in Pyrenees

 

[Normal Norm]

What does D125W mean? ... from the map you posted.

If it means 45 minutes, which is unlikely, we could pinpoint exactly where she was a 5:30 PM.

View attachment 276715

As far as I can see, it is a road number. There is a minor road which runs south-easterly from Bagneres-de-Luchon to Hospice de France. This has the number D125 (the prefix "D" denoting that it is a "departmental" or minor, local road). This then continues in a southerly direction after Hospice de France as the D125W. I don't know what the "W" suffix means, but I suspect it doesn't mean anything. I'm surprised it even has a road number at all, as it appears to be little more than a path for the most part.

 

[otto]

As far as I can see, it is a road number. There is a minor road which runs south-easterly from Bagneres-de-Luchon to Hospice de France. This has the number D125 (the prefix "D" denoting that it is a "departmental" or minor, local road). This then continues in a southerly direction after Hospice de France as the D125W. I don't know what the "W" suffix means, but I suspect it doesn't mean anything. I'm surprised it even has a road number at all, as it appears to be little more than a path for the most part.

I've been wondering whether this is how Napoleon passed into France at some times. It is a centuries old travel passage. Road number makes sense. Is there any correlation between where the numbers are placed on the map and distance markers?

 

[Normal Norm]

Is there any correlation between where the numbers are placed on the map and distance markers?

Not as far as I know, but I'll happily be corrected on this. I'd always imagined that road numbers were positioned on a map in a way that minimised their interference with other features of the map, and nothing more than that.

 

[RickshawFan]

Snipped for Focus

Well, here are some sources that may intrigue you. They're not a great selection but they may offer some fodder to consider. And I believe ED is a personal fitness trainer (right?) and has I'd say, a solid athletic background.

1. Peer Reviewed, General Benefits of Chia Seeds: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4926888/pdf/13197_2015_Article_1967.pdf

2. Physician Co-Author with Mainstream Credentials:
Gel Water For Increasing Hydration Support | Goop

3. Running Media Outlet Article - mentions MSM coverage of benefits, NFL use, and a blurb on hydration benefits
Chia Seeds for Runners: Power Your Run with This Ancient Superfood - Fleet Feet St. Louis

The article that would be relevant is #1.** It's a peer-reviewed science-based source. No mention that chia seeds prevent dehydration.

Then there's the world of woo. Being a personal fitness trainer or a runner (or a science practitioner writing without peer review, for that matter) would not qualify you to be an expert on chia seeds. However, you might believe they would help with dehydration.

IMO ED might have been in this category. It's possible she believed, but what she believed in was not a fact: it was a topic discussed in the world of woo.

I think we're kinda far out on this topic. No way I'd take a mess of poop enhancer (a very-well documented feature) before a long hike with a high risk of stomach cramps and nowhere to set myself privately.

On the other hand, as I asked before, I wonder if they checked the privy at the Refuge.

**
Article #2 is focused on chia seeds as a source of electrolytes. While it cannot provide evidence for this, Article #1 does make that point in a peer-reviewed science journal. Goop is an industry publication.

Article #3 is a store blog.

 

[RickshawFan]

Abstract from the peer reviewed article:

"The ancient grain is becoming enormously popular in modern food regimen in many countries; ... believed to have cardiac, hepatic protective effects, anti-ageing and anti-carcinogenic characteristics ... beneficial for the digestive system. Therapeutic effects of chia in the control of diabetes, dyslipidaemia, hypertension, as anti-inflammatory, antioxidant, anti-blood clotting, laxative, antidepressant, anti-anxiety, analgesic, vision and immune improver is scientifically established."
​

Preventing dehydration is not mentioned as a therapeutic value.

View attachment 276695
​

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4926888/pdf/13197_2015_Article_1967.pdf

Snipped and italicized for focus:

For the good of this conversation, I've enhanced the careful wording. This is a scientist's version of "shade", and it's not subtle. These effects are a belief, not proven. This writer wants to make that very clear. "Enormously popular" is not flattery; it's a very overt snub.

 

[RickshawFan]

Sunset at 5:30 PM.

View attachment 276706

So, those are switch-backs up from the Refuge. A fit-person might be able to "book" it, but heading up switchbacks (as opposed to down) wouldn't give you much of an advantage.

 

[RickshawFan]

Bivouacking sounded like something new for her - was there a recent post from her about sleeping in the open?

View attachment 276713

View attachment 276714

Yes. It was "out of her comfort zone", but she did it anyway. This has me very concerned.

Who'd bivouac if there are refuges? At this time of year, it would be like gratuitously tempting fate.

Note: "bivouac-ing" means no tent, as in "sleeping under the stars".

 

[RickshawFan]

Does the Hospice have running water and internet?

 

[RickshawFan]

"Falling into a crevasse" leaves me wondering what that means.

I don't see a crevasse in any of the photos and video footage of the trails between Benasque, Pic de Sauvegarde, Port de Venasque, Refuge de Venasque and Hospice de France. By crevasse, do they mean she fell off a mountain into a crevasse between mountains, or an unmarked crevasse near a hiking trail?

“If she deviated from her itinerary and went off piste, she could have had an accident, fallen into a crevasse, and if that’s the case …” He paused. “With the snow, it’s possible we won’t know until the spring.”​

'We have nothing': police stumped by disappearance of Briton in Pyrenees

I'm not sure the translation isn't confusing. I'm thinking "crevasse", though used as a technical term to apply to cracks in glaciers, actually means simply "crevice". "Piste" prolly means "track".
These, then, would be terms that don't involve snow. The last sentence will now make sense.

 

[RickshawFan]

As far as I can see, it is a road number. There is a minor road which runs south-easterly from Bagneres-de-Luchon to Hospice de France. This has the number D125 (the prefix "D" denoting that it is a "departmental" or minor, local road). This then continues in a southerly direction after Hospice de France as the D125W. I don't know what the "W" suffix means, but I suspect it doesn't mean anything. I'm surprised it even has a road number at all, as it appears to be little more than a path for the most part.

Maybe W### is a trail #.

 

[Lucy6226]

Not as far as I know, but I'll happily be corrected on this. I'd always imagined that road numbers were positioned on a map in a way that minimised their interference with other features of the map, and nothing more than that.

The UK numbering scheme works on which part of the UK the road starts in... I have no idea if they use a similar system in France or Spain but I thought you might find it interesting how we do it here

Great Britain road numbering scheme - Wikipedia

 

[Normal Norm]

The UK numbering scheme works on which part of the UK the road starts in... I have no idea if they use a similar system in France or Spain but I thought you might find it interesting how we do it here

Great Britain road numbering scheme - Wikipedia

Thanks, Lucy. I must have misunderstood the original question, I think.

 

[otto]

Maybe W### is a trail #.

I searched D125W and found this detailed map of the trails.

OpenTopoMap - Topographische Karten aus OpenStreetMap

Spécimen - Alchemilla glaberrima (F.W.Schmidt) Opiz

 

[Grouse]

" IMO it matters because if it was below Port de Vanesque, it leaves open the possibility that that encounter does not necessarily mean ED summited the Pic that day (we know she did on 11/21 and took many pictures).

<RSBM and BBM>

I was interested in how this might be verified via the photograph that was sent on 22nd and did some checking. I believe I read that the last communication was via Whatsapp. I read that for privacy reasons the Whatsapp app strips all the EXIF data (metadata about the photograph such as date and time, the camera model etc) from a photo when it is sent. But (on Android certainly) the filename of the photo does contain the date! I checked this with photos that were sent to me via Whatsapp, an example on my phone is IMG-20201028-WA0005.jpg (that's the date in YYYYMMDD format followed by WA for whatsapp and a number that is incremented for each picture taken on that date, so in my example that was the 5th photo taken on 28th October on the sender's phone ).

So given that LE have had access to this they will surely have been able to verify this. I guess it would be possible to fake it (either at the sending or receiving end) if someone knew what they were doing but it would require some effort to do that in a way would fool LE digital forensics (for example they'd have to not only rename the file but also potentially frig the "last modified" date on the file).

 

[stmarysmead]

The different times of day that she summited the mountain intrigue me. On the first day it was quite early. If she did not care to spend much time at the refuge could she have just bypassed it and spent the night either at another refuge or camping in her tent ...heading in the direction toward France.

Then backtracked the next day, Which would cause her to summit that second time late in the day...and was headed back toward the camper van? Would that have been an easier trek? Even if she couldn’t reach the camper before dark, she might have planned to sleep out. I just find something odd about the timing of the two summits.

 

[otto]

<RSBM and BBM>

I was interested in how this might be verified via the photograph that was sent on 22nd and did some checking. I believe I read that the last communication was via Whatsapp. I read that for privacy reasons the Whatsapp app strips all the EXIF data (metadata about the photograph such as date and time, the camera model etc) from a photo when it is sent. But (on Android certainly) the filename of the photo does contain the date! I checked this with photos that were sent to me via Whatsapp, an example on my phone is IMG-20201028-WA0005.jpg (that's the date in YYYYMMDD format followed by WA for whatsapp and a number that is incremented for each picture taken on that date, so in my example that was the 5th photo taken on 28th October on the sender's phone ).

So given that LE have had access to this they will surely have been able to verify this. I guess it would be possible to fake it (either at the sending or receiving end) if someone knew what they were doing but it would require some effort to do that in a way would fool LE digital forensics (for example they'd have to not only rename the file but also potentially frig the "last modified" date on the file).

Is one option to fake a photo date to take a screenshot of the photo on the cell phone?