Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #2

[otto]

It seems picky- but she didn’t post a photo at 4.00 (she didn’t post anything on the numerous SM platforms that she had)- she sent her partner a WhatsApp photo at 4.00. Assumptions have been drawn from this, but they aren’t necessarily accurate.

We look at missing persons on this forum every day for almost 20 years. At some point, we have to trust that the missing person is honest about where they were. Esther posted a photo stating that she was at the summit at 4PM on Nov 22. Without any other information, we have to trust that this is true.

Is there any reason to doubt that Esther was truthful about her location on Nov 22 at 4PM? Is there another wifi signal that she could have used after she was seen at 3PM ascending the mountain on Nov 22?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I think we're getting a little tangled up here with the difference between something which is logical to presume, and something which is a confirmed fact.

There are so many interesting theories and suggestions on this thread, but very few actual facts.

Exactly HKP. Where Esther was from being on the summit of Sauvegarde on 21st and being there again on 22nd is a mystery.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

We look at missing persons on this forum every day for almost 20 years. At some point, we have to trust that the missing person is honest about where they were. Esther posted a photo stating that she was at the summit at 4PM on Nov 22. Without any other information, we have to trust that this is true.

Is there any reason to doubt that Esther was truthful about her location on Nov 22 at 4PM? Is there another wifi signal that she could have used after she was seen at 3PM ascending the mountain on Nov 22?

I imagine the telecoms people have been able to confirm it, yes. Seems Esther might have habitually switched her phone to airplane mode (to save battery) so each time she switched it back on it would ping the nearest towers, and they’ll have the times and distances involved.

Do we know where the masts are? Is triangulation a possibility up there?

 

[otto]

Exactly HKP. Where Esther was from being on the summit of Sauvegarde on 21st and being there again on 22nd is a mystery.

We can guess but we do not know... and therefore it is not fact and shouldn’t be stated as such.

We know that she was alive and well in Spain on Nov 22 at 3PM ascending the mountain, and that she sent a photo from the summit at 4PM. According to her partner, the trip plan was to climb the Pic de Sauvegarde, then overnight at the Refuge de Venasque. There is no evidence that she arrived at the Refuge.

Authorities, early in the search, stated that she began her hike on Nov 22 and planned to return on Nov 25. When she did not contact her partner on Nov 25, he reported her missing.

If we doubt that she started the hike on Nov 22, doubt that she used the summit wifi signal to send the photo at 4PM, doubt that she was responsible enough to stick to the trip plan, then of course, we know nothing.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

We know that she was alive and well in Spain on Nov 22 at 3PM ascending the mountain, and that she sent a photo from the summit at 4PM. According to her partner, the trip plan was to climb the Pic de Sauvegarde, then overnight at the Refuge de Venasque. There is no evidence that she arrived at the Refuge.

Authorities, early in the search, stated that she began her hike on Nov 22 and planned to return on Nov 25. When she did not contact her partner on Nov 25, he reported her missing.

If we doubt that she started the hike on Nov 22, doubt that she used the summit wifi signal to send the photo at 4PM, doubt that she was responsible enough to stick to the trip plan, then of course, we know nothing.

I don’t doubt any of it lol!

The likelihood is she had an accident somewhere on or near her planned route, after 4pm on 22nd. What’s thrown us is the police asserting “she’s not there”. Gets the minds thinking / rethinking / overthinking

 

[RedHaus]

OK, on page 70 of Thread #1, I posted my first-ever WS post (a scary moment!). The post focused on three key focal points that, at the time and IMO, were the most crucial to unraveling this mystery. One of those focal points was cell service in the areas that ED possibly traveled on 11/22-11/24.

I still think that issue is germane, especially as we appear to have looped back to an old question about ED's 11/22 4pm WhatsApp post. Did ED's 11/22 4pm WhatsApp post to DC confirm she was at the Pic de S summit? Or just that the Pic de S summit cell tower was pinged when that post was sent?

Anyhow, I continue to grapple with the question about cell service in relation to ED's possible travel (and her ability to call for help if she had her phone and power) on 11/22-24. I found a couple websites that in the right technical hands might shed some light on the coverage area of the cell tower on the Pic de S and other towers.

For instance, could ED have sent her 4pm WhatsApp post to DC from the Port de V or from the base of the Pic de S trail, or even from the other side of the Refuge de V?

I have given up trying to make sense of these technical websites, but perhaps someone here may be able to do some further sleuthing on this question...

1. Orange ES (Spain) Cell Tower Map
2. 3G / 4G / 5G coverage in Spain - nPerf.com

 

[Puzzles]

Snipped for focus:

What’s thrown us is the police asserting “she’s not there”. Gets the minds thinking / rethinking / overthinking

CMC, thank you for a succinct offering of probable truth. I, for one, have been thrown by the assertion "she's not there".

To add to the conundrum:

BBM

I’ve been pondering statements made to the press by Captain Captain Jean-Marc Bordinaro. (Posted upthread on Page 34, by our PeggyHenry.)

I’ve found another of his statements:
Source – The Herald Dec. 13 Via PressReader.com - Your favorite newspapers and magazines.
Captain Jean-Marc Bordinaro, of France’s Gendarmerie de Saint-Gaudens, said: “ Esther Dingley wanted to continue with her current way of life, journeys in a camper van and sporting activities including hiking, while Daniel Colgate seems a little tired of this nomadic life.” He added: “Did Esther Dingley want to go off on her own to live her life and organise her own disappearance? There is nothing enabling us to eliminate this working theory."

LinkedIn shows Bordinaro has over 25 years of experience with LE, including 'Spécialisé dans le domaine financier et dans les enquêtes complexes (direction d'enquête concernant une catastrophe maritime ou multiples homicides, trafic de stupéfian)’

English translation: Specialized in the Financial Field and in complex investigations (Investigation Directorate concerning a maritime disaster or multiple homicides, drug trafficking) Perhaps one of our members fluent in French can offer a more accurate translation.

From his investigative experience and his senior position, I believe Bordinaro would be most circumspect in what he expresses to the media.

If ED indeed chose to leave her partner and her past life, we of WS have agreed on the high probability she would have contacted family to verify her safety.

But we don’t know now, and may never know whether she has contacted family/LE since her reported disappearance.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

OK, on page 70 of Thread #1, I posted my first-ever WS post (a scary moment!). The post focused on three key focal points that, at the time and IMO, were the most crucial to unraveling this mystery. One of those focal points was cell service in the areas that ED possibly traveled on 11/22-11/24.

I still think that issue is germane, especially as we appear to have looped back to an old question about ED's 11/22 4pm WhatsApp post. Did ED's 11/22 4pm WhatsApp post to DC confirm she was at the Pic de S summit? Or just that the Pic de S summit cell tower was pinged when that post was sent?

Anyhow, I continue to grapple with the question about cell service in relation to ED's possible travel (and her ability to call for help if she had her phone and power) on 11/22-24. I found a couple websites that in the right technical hands might shed some light on the coverage area of the cell tower on the Pic de S and other towers.

For instance, could ED have sent her 4pm WhatsApp post to DC from the Port de V or from the base of the Pic de S trail, or even from the other side of the Refuge de V?

I have given up trying to make sense of these technical websites, but perhaps someone here may be able to do some further sleuthing on this question...

1. Orange ES (Spain) Cell Tower Map
2. 3G / 4G / 5G coverage in Spain - nPerf.com

Mast pings show distance. So I believe when the message was sent at 4pm the nearest mast (or masts) recorded how far away her phone was. So they know if she was at the summit or down at Port de V.

We had a phone mast whizz on one thread, but I can’t remember who it was. They knew all about triangulation and the accuracy of distance / direction measurements having worked in that field. Obviously to achieve exact triangulation the phone has to ping to 3 or more masts, unless the masts have directional radar in which case 2 should be enough.

A couple of pics of each scenario, fairly self explanatory. It’d be useful to know how many masts were in range, because then we would know whether or not the 4pm location is absolute fact. And indeed, if the police know whereabouts Esther was up until that point.

Frustratingly quiet since LBT took over.

 

[Ruthbullock]

We look at missing persons on this forum every day for almost 20 years. At some point, we have to trust that the missing person is honest about where they were. Esther posted a photo stating that she was at the summit at 4PM on Nov 22. Without any other information, we have to trust that this is true.

Is there any reason to doubt that Esther was truthful about her location on Nov 22 at 4PM? Is there another wifi signal that she could have used after she was seen at 3PM ascending the mountain on Nov 22?

If you can show evidence, other than media statements quoting someone else I would agree. As an avid poster with two Twitter accounts and two Facebook accounts and two Instagram accounts, plus a blog all of which were updated almost daily (but not on this day) - I may appear untrusting, and cynical, but yes I don’t think we have evidence she was at the peak at 4.00. And if we disregard all my opinion and needing concrete evidence, then we are left with the possibility that you upload something to WhatsApp- but the time shows as arrival, and doesn’t tell the tale of when it was sent. When it was first reported that her and Dan spoke via WhatsApp I accepted it, but the current news reports are erring on the side of caution and reporting a photo was sent. You can draw your own conclusions, personally I am still unsure what happened and when on that final day of communication.

 

[PeggyHenry]

We know that she was alive and well in Spain on Nov 22 at 3PM ascending the mountain, and that she sent a photo from the summit at 4PM. According to her partner, the trip plan was to climb the Pic de Sauvegarde, then overnight at the Refuge de Venasque. There is no evidence that she arrived at the Refuge.

Authorities, early in the search, stated that she began her hike on Nov 22 and planned to return on Nov 25. When she did not contact her partner on Nov 25, he reported her missing.

If we doubt that she started the hike on Nov 22, doubt that she used the summit wifi signal to send the photo at 4PM, doubt that she was responsible enough to stick to the trip plan, then of course, we know nothing.

I'm just providing some snippets from news reports in first weeks of December and have highlighted a few key points:

1. Extent of police search is 28sq km - using drone/ helicopter / on foot

Police searching for missing UK blogger interview boyfriend twice | Daily Mail Online
Captain Bordinaro said police, having searched 28sq km of mountains since she was reported missing by Mr Colegate, 38, on November 24, do not believe that Esther had an accident and is in the Pyrenees.
‘Her disappearance is more likely to be the result of a voluntary or criminal act.
‘We have carried out a very thorough search of the area in the French sector. We have covered 28 square kilometres by foot, drone and helicopter and there is no trace of her.
‘We are cooperating thoroughly with the Guardia Civil [Spanish paramilitary police] who have also carried out a thorough search of their sector.

Point 2: It's odd that the poice searched for the 'fellow hiker' but then there was no follow up report. We know they did locate him - but there was never a statement to the effect of ' we are happy that the man in question is not a suspect' ..
It was revealed on Wednesday night that investigators are seeking a man who gave the solo hiker a lift and Spanish and French authorities believe he could prove crucial in tracking her down.

Esther shared the existence of the man in a Facebook post on November 19, saying they met by chance at the peak of a mountain, before hiking down together.

She said she had accepted a lift from the man back to her camper van, which was later found abandoned in the Spanish town of Benasque.
'They may have arranged to meet and hike another route. It is imperative that we find him.'

But the force has remained tight-lipped about the work they are doing.

They have privately dismissed the idea the hiker could have been attacked by a bear and have made no comment on reports they are hunting a man travel blogger Esther said in her online travel diary had given her a lift down from the mountains in the days before she vanished.

Point 3: She was headed towards Pico Salvaguardia on 19th.... and climbed it on 21st Nov (and possibly 22nd) ... so a long time in this area

Police have spoken to hikers who saw Esther, who rowed for Great Britain as a schoolgirl, heading towards Pico Salvaguardia on November 19.

Well-placed sources confirmed she had been on Pic de Sauvegarde on the Spanish side of the border on November 21 and posted a selfie on Instagram before returning the following day.


Esther Dingley: Police believe missing British hiker went missing voluntarily | Daily Mail Online
Speaking exclusively to the Mail this week, Jose Antonio Ballarin - who gave Ms Dingley a lift on October 21 - said Esther discussed her route with him, and it was different from the one she was believed to have been planning.
Under Spain's lockdown rules, the retired businessman shouldn't have offered a lift to a stranger at all. But something about the sight of the 37-year-old woman carrying a large khaki backpack made him pull over, he said.
Esther, who often took lifts on hiking trips, jumped in and travelled with the 71-year-old and his grandson for five miles, chatting about her plans until they reached the footpath leading to the Pico Salvaguardia, or 'safeguard peak'.
When she went missing, she was thought to have been in the middle of a hike of several days, taking a circular route from Port de la Glere to Port de Venasque via Pico Salvaguardia.

 

[RickshawFan]

We know that there is solar panel and wifi mast at the summit. There is no wifi at the Refuge de Venasque. It makes sense that she sent the photo from the summit using the available wifi signal at the summit.

The timing of the witness (3PM) and trip plan (summit to refuge) are consistent with sending the photo from the summit.

"Miss Dingley had parked her camper van in Benasque, northern Spain – then hitched to Pic de Sauvegarde. She was seen by fellow hikers on November 22, when she also sent a final photo to Mr Colegate from the mountain top – a solar panel and communications mast reflected in her sunglasses."​

Partner of missing hiker slams 'wild theories' about disappearance

BBM
The problem is what makes sense is in the eyes of the beholder. We don't know it's a fact. There are many ways it could have been sent and NOT from the summit.

 

[RickshawFan]

I think we're getting a little tangled up here with the difference between something which is logical to presume, and something which is a confirmed fact.

There are so many interesting theories and suggestions on this thread, but very few actual facts.

Agreed. There are almost no incontrovertible facts in this case, including in statements from LE. It's like the blind leading the blind.

 

[PeggyHenry]

OK, on page 70 of Thread #1, I posted my first-ever WS post (a scary moment!). The post focused on three key focal points that, at the time and IMO, were the most crucial to unraveling this mystery. One of those focal points was cell service in the areas that ED possibly traveled on 11/22-11/24.

I still think that issue is germane, especially as we appear to have looped back to an old question about ED's 11/22 4pm WhatsApp post. Did ED's 11/22 4pm WhatsApp post to DC confirm she was at the Pic de S summit? Or just that the Pic de S summit cell tower was pinged when that post was sent?

Anyhow, I continue to grapple with the question about cell service in relation to ED's possible travel (and her ability to call for help if she had her phone and power) on 11/22-24. I found a couple websites that in the right technical hands might shed some light on the coverage area of the cell tower on the Pic de S and other towers.

For instance, could ED have sent her 4pm WhatsApp post to DC from the Port de V or from the base of the Pic de S trail, or even from the other side of the Refuge de V?

I have given up trying to make sense of these technical websites, but perhaps someone here may be able to do some further sleuthing on this question...

1. Orange ES (Spain) Cell Tower Map
2. 3G / 4G / 5G coverage in Spain - nPerf.com

Presumably her Whatsapp to Dan on 22nd Nov at 4pm contained the photo and a little message. I cant imagine her sending him a photo and not adding ' Here I am second day running!' or 'Wish you were here!'
If she had just sent the image with no words then it is not specifically saying she was at the peak there and then.

The day before, she had posted the picture of her at the peak on instagram. Wonder if she also sent Dan a whatsapp on 21st? One day instagram ...the next day Whatsapp.

 

[RickshawFan]

I imagine the telecoms people have been able to confirm it, yes. Seems Esther might have habitually switched her phone to airplane mode (to save battery) so each time she switched it back on it would ping the nearest towers, and they’ll have the times and distances involved.

Do we know where the masts are? Is triangulation a possibility up there?

That's what I'm thinking: she could have been in the shadow of the nearest tower distance-wise, but pinged on another tower. OR she could have been in a dead zone and randomly stepped into a live zone, and thereby generate an upload.

 

[PeggyHenry]

If you can show evidence, other than media statements quoting someone else I would agree. As an avid poster with two Twitter accounts and two Facebook accounts and two Instagram accounts, plus a blog all of which were updated almost daily (but not on this day) - I may appear untrusting, and cynical, but yes I don’t think we have evidence she was at the peak at 4.00. And if we disregard all my opinion and needing concrete evidence, then we are left with the possibility that you upload something to WhatsApp- but the time shows as arrival, and doesn’t tell the tale of when it was sent. When it was first reported that her and Dan spoke via WhatsApp I accepted it, but the current news reports are erring on the side of caution and reporting a photo was sent. You can draw your own conclusions, personally I am still unsure what happened and when on that final day of communication.

Everything feels 'unstraightforward' and somehow I feel that it seems that way because something is amiss, which if righted would make everything seem much clearer. It could well be that the timeline is totally wrong because we are relying on the whatsapp post timing. Having said that Vigo's sighting does tie in with a summit at 4pm.
I'm sure we could test the Whatsapp thing...

If it seems strange she summited at 4pm - if it seems strange that she climbed the Pic de S twice - then maybe it is strange and in fact she did not. JMO.

 

[RickshawFan]

Did ED have her pack on in the photo from the 22nd?
If I'd been scrambling up the Pic for the second day in a row (knowing how it went), I might have left my pack at the Port and got it on the way back. CLIF bar in pocket, and maybe a small amount of water (or, on a hot day, just the sleeve with the bladder...they sometimes have pack straps these days). That would have been a calculated risk that I might have taken, especially with a group. Solo on the way back to the trailhead? Maybe not me, but I could see someone doing that.
If she didn't have her pack with her, it would mean she encountered the Olympian NOT on the Port-Pic trail.

I don't usually like to qu0te my own posts, but I'll do so anyway.

If ED perhaps didn't have her pack actually on her, she could have stashed it somewhere out of sight, so she could scramble quickly. This would make it very difficult to find. Me, I'd dump it almost in the trail (seriously, who'd imagine it had anything worthwhile in it?) or highly visible, but she might have had a different idea. She could have had an accident while it was stashed. (I suppose she could also have taken it off and it rolled down the mountain with her scampering after it....)

 

[RickshawFan]

Do hikers just leave their backpacks somewhere for a couple of hours? Don’t you worry someone will rifle through it or even steal it?

Me? I plonk mine wherever. If I was scrambling up the Pic and no one else was around, personally, I'd leave it in the open so someone would know where I was if I had an accident. I always leave something in the trail if I'm taking a pit stop. I suppose everything has a value, but most hikers aren't out there to steal something.

Many cafés, shops, and eating places don't allow packs inside. You just ditch it on the porch before going in.

(That being said, folks have lost their entire set of thru-hike gear to thieves, but you gotta understand who else is on the trail: e.g. the start of the PCT is used by refugee groups coming up from Mexico, people who just don't have anything.)

 

[RickshawFan]

Do hikers just leave their backpacks somewhere for a couple of hours? Don’t you worry someone will rifle through it or even steal it?

She might have calculated (rightly or wrongly) she could get up and back in 1/2 hour without a pack, it was late in the day, and there was no one else around.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Me? I plonk mine wherever. If I was scrambling up the Pic and no one else was around, personally, I'd leave it in the open so someone would know where I was if I had an accident. I always leave something in the trail if I'm taking a pit stop. I suppose everything has a value, but most hikers aren't out there to steal something.

(That being said, folks have lost their entire set of thru-hike gear to thieves, but you gotta understand who else is on the trail: e.g. the start of the PCT is used by refugee groups coming up from Mexico, people who just don't have anything.)

That’s interesting to know, goes against everything we do when not on mountains lol! I can totally see the logic of lightening the load for a short while though. And I imagine the type of people who’d have been in the Pyrenees that day would have been safe enough.

It does beg the question though - did ANYONE other than the skier and his partner come forward with ANY sightings of Esther or her belongings?

It’s worryingly quiet on the news front. You’d think they’d at least want to keep Esthers face in the public eye. I wonder if there are posters of her in local shops and towns.

 

[stmarysmead]

Do we know if Dan actually spoke to her on the 22nd or did he just get that photo?

Do we know if there was actually a message with the photo?

Is the last conversation he speaks of “on the summit” actually the day before? That’s the conversation where he says they were missing each other and she was planning in this being her last trek.

I’ve read the blog again and still am not sure.