Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #2

[BobbleBob]

Yes I agree, is the Susan McLean thread the one where the woman left the hotel (or accommodation) and it was her friend who flew over and eventually found her (some while later) and she was literally just behind an area that had been searched all along. Is that the same person?

Yup that’s the one

 

[Officer Dibble]

Yup that’s the one

Thank you.

 

[Puzzles]

Duplicate

 

[Puzzles]

Snipped for focus.
@PeggyHenry
[QUOTE
The continued silence leads me to think that their investigation is very much in progress.[/QUOTE]

Yes. I agree with you, PeggyHenry. The silence from ED's family, DC, the media and LBT Global has me believe the investigation is active.
Do others here have another theory for the lack of an update?

 

[ZaZara]

Snipped for focus.
@PeggyHenry
[QUOTE
The continued silence leads me to think that their investigation is very much in progress.

Yes. I agree with you, PeggyHenry. The silence from ED's family, DC, the media and LBT Global has me believe the investigation is active.
Do others here have another theory for the lack of an update?[/QUOTE]

Snow till spring.

 

[otto]

This is the piece that I find interesting. This information is also included in the DailyMail graphic.

"The sector envisaged for his hike extends from the port of Glère to the port of Vénasque (French and Spanish sides)."
​

Pyrénées. Neuf jours après son dernier message, aucune trace de la randonneuse disparue en Haute-Garonne

Did she intend to hike from the Pic de Sauvgarde to the Port de Glère, bivouac nearby Nov 22? Maybe the plan was to hike to the Lac de la Montagnette, bivouac Nov 23, then hike to Refuge de Venasque, overnight Nov 24, then return to Spain Nov 25?

Arrows crudely identify a path from Port de Glère to the Refuge de Venasque.

Everything we know fits - she was at the summit, she took and sent the photo at 4PM, she was going to overnight at the refuge, but her route was from Pic de Sauvegarde to the Port de Glère to the Refuge de Venasque to the Port de Venasque and back to the van.

 

[BobbleBob]

Yes. I agree with you, PeggyHenry. The silence from ED's family, DC, the media and LBT Global has me believe the investigation is active.
Do others here have another theory for the lack of an update?

Snow till spring.

I’d have to agree with ZaZara here, to me this seems to be the most likely reason for radio silence from all involved. Come the thaw the search can continue and we might have more answers then (and hopefully Esther will get to come home).

 

[fridaybaker]

This is the piece that I find interesting. This information is also included in the DailyMail graphic.

"The sector envisaged for his hike extends from the port of Glère to the port of Vénasque (French and Spanish sides)."
​

Pyrénées. Neuf jours après son dernier message, aucune trace de la randonneuse disparue en Haute-Garonne

Did she intend to hike from the Pic de Sauvgarde to the Port de Glère, bivouac nearby Nov 22? Maybe the plan was to hike to the Lac de la Montagnette, bivouac Nov 23, then hike to Refuge de Venasque, overnight Nov 24, then return to Spain Nov 25?

View attachment 278000

Arrows crudely identify a path from Port de Glère to the Refuge de Venasque.

Everything we know fits - she was at the summit, she took and sent the photo at 4PM, she was going to overnight at the refuge, but her route was from Pic de Sauvegarde to the Port de Glère to the Refuge de Venasque to the Port de Venasque and back to the van.

Interesting Otto.

I know little about hiking, but have picked up a couple of opposing ideas on this thread, namely that a “responsible” hiker sticks to a plan, but also that Esther was regarded by many as both responsible and experienced, yet it seems evident that she did, indeed, veer off of her initial plan, sans telling her partner.

What to think? Not sure, but I do think that playing out the possible route variations is helpful. (Thank you Otto and Rickshaw.) Alas, I think there’s about a 90% chance of an accident -slip/fall or such, about 8% chance of foul play, and 2% “other”. My guess is that she’ll be found not too soon after spring thaw, and not too far off piste.

 

[otto]

Interesting Otto.

I know little about hiking, but have picked up a couple of opposing ideas on this thread, namely that a “responsible” hiker sticks to a plan, but also that Esther was regarded by many as both responsible and experienced, yet it seems evident that she did, indeed, veer off of her initial plan, sans telling her partner.

What to think? Not sure, but I do think that playing out the possible route variations is helpful. (Thank you Otto and Rickshaw.) Alas, I think there’s about a 90% chance of an accident -slip/fall or such, about 8% chance of foul play, and 2% “other”. My guess is that she’ll be found not too soon after spring thaw, and not too far off piste.

I hadn't thought about it until now - but she was on a 3 day hike, so it was more than hiking the summit, overnight at the refuge and then what - day hikes for 2 days?

I am curious whether she thought she could hike from the trail head near Port de Venasque to the Port de Glère. I don't see a trail, but perhaps there's a shepherd's trail or an animal trail. It's a loop from Pic de Sauvegarde to Port de Glère, Nov 22, hike to Lac de la Montagnette, Nov 23, hike to Refuge de Venasque, Nov 24, hike through Port de Venasque and down mountain in Spain to van, Nov 25.

Maybe that was her plan and that's why the search area includes Port de Glère to Port de Venasque, including Pic de Sauvegarde, on both sides of the border plus Refuge de Venasque. I wonder whether she was supposed to be at the refuge on Nov 24, she wasn't, so they backtracked through her route and that's why Port de Glère is included.

As long as she's not in the water, hopefully she will be found when hiking season opens in the Spring.

 

[otto]

Maybe her first hike to the summit on Nov 19 was to scope out trails to hike from Port de Venasque to Port de Glère. Maybe she spent the next two days checking maps and packing.

That doesn't explain why she had such a late start to the day.

 

[stmarysmead]

She posted every day about her adventures from Nov 4 until Nov 20. But the Nov 21 and 22 are like marketing ads for their doggie books.
She just stops sharing information and pictures.

I find that curious. She is not communicating with the blog’s “audience.”

Her Nov 4 postings are both intriguing. One expresses her negative reaction to Covid lockdown...and the other seems to indicate that this started as a 4 day trip. That’s a lot of reluctance to c9me home.

“What are you doing here, Esther? Why?” is one sentence.

And considering that the end of her adventures meant going back to the situation she found unhealthy for her. And on Nov 18 she talks about how challenging herself keeps her from being “scared about other things in my life.”

 

[Puzzles]

She posted every day about her adventures from Nov 4 until Nov 20. But the Nov 21 and 22 are like marketing ads for their doggie books.
She just stops sharing information and pictures.

I find that curious. She is not communicating with the blog’s “audience.”

Her Nov 4 postings are both intriguing. One expresses her negative reaction to Covid lockdown...and the other seems to indicate that this started as a 4 day trip. That’s a lot of reluctance to c9me home.

“What are you doing here, Esther? Why?” is one sentence.

And considering that the end of her adventures meant going back to the situation she found unhealthy for her. And on Nov 18 she talks about how challenging herself keeps her from being “scared about other things in my life.”

Penetrating, intuitive observations, stmarysmead. I appreciate your mind.

 

[RickshawFan]

I hadn't thought about it until now - but she was on a 3 day hike, so it was more than hiking the summit, overnight at the refuge and then what - day hikes for 2 days?

Snipped for focus.
Exactly. She almost certainly had to have an overnight bivouac to make the loop. Plus, she'd be heading uphill ALL at the end of the hike. These 2 aspects of the plan IMO are very problematic in those conditions: it was substantially below freezing at night and going up up up on the last day of that loop after a cold night bivouac....
Note: under these conditions, it was very possible to make the loop if you started in France (at the Hospice). NOT if you started in Spain. That would be very risky IMO. If you started in France , you could do your one overnight at the Refuge and then the next day hike back down to the Hospice. Only one night would be needed, you'd be protected and warm, and you'd be going up up up on the first day of your hike, not the second..

 

[Skiptolou]

<snipped for focus>

Did she intend to hike from the Pic de Sauvgarde to the Port de Glère, bivouac nearby Nov 22? Maybe the plan was to hike to the Lac de la Montagnette, bivouac Nov 23, then hike to Refuge de Venasque, overnight Nov 24, then return to Spain Nov 25?
to the Refuge de Venasque.

I'm trying to figure out why you think ED planned to hike to the port de Glere on 22 Nov. From the LBT press release, it is clear that her plan was to stay at the refuge on 22 Nov. Do you mean she may have changed her plan without telling DC? He says he spoke to her "on/from a summit" - it's not clear to me what he means by that.

"Esther specified her route from the summit we spoke on. She had two hours of daylight to reach a refuge winter room, a distance that would have taken her less than an hour. From my own visits I know she wouldn't have had a
phone signal again on Sunday afternoon/evening, but she would have had a signal very soon after setting off the next day. Because Esther is so particular about sending updates to family, if Esther did have an accident it must have been in that very small area, an area that was pored over daily until the heavy snow arrived."​

 

[otto]

Snipped for focus.
Exactly. She almost certainly had to have an overnight bivouac to make the loop. Plus, she'd be heading uphill ALL at the end of the hike. These 2 aspects of the plan IMO are very problematic in those conditions: it was substantially below freezing at night and going up up up on the last day of that loop after a cold night bivouac....
Note: under these conditions, it was very possible to make the loop if you started in France (at the Hospice). NOT if you started in Spain. That would be very risky IMO. If you started in France , you could do your one overnight at the Refuge and then the next day hike back down to the Hospice. Only one night would be needed, you'd be protected and warm, and you'd be going up up up on the first day of your hike, not the second..

I think she perished before the morning of Nov 23.

She was at the Pic de Sauvegarde at 4PM on Nov 22. That is reported across the news as a fact.

Both the Port de Venasque and the Port de Glère are included in the search area. That's a big hike with no obvious trails. Port de Glère is on the way to Refuge de Venasque; involves the off-piste bivouac long route.

I'll look for more maps, but I'm curious how she might have trekked from the Port de Venasque trail head to the Port de Glere. She would be at the trailhead at 4:30 PM. Where could she be an hour later heading towards Port de Glère?

Sunset was at 5:30, but at the top of the mountain it seems light for an hour or more.

 

[otto]

I'm trying to figure out why you think ED planned to hike to the port de Glere on 22 Nov. From the LBT press release, it is clear that her plan was to stay at the refuge on 22 Nov. Do you mean she may have changed her plan without telling DC? He says he spoke to her "from a summit" - it's not clear if he means from the Pic de Sauvegarde.

"Esther specified her route from the summit we spoke on. She had two hours of daylight to reach a refuge winter room, a distance that would have taken her less than an hour. From my own visits I know she wouldn't have had a
phone signal again on Sunday afternoon/evening, but she would have had a signal very soon after setting off the next day. Because Esther is so particular about sending updates to family, if Esther did have an accident it must have been in that very small area, an area that was pored over daily until the heavy snow arrived."​

BBM

It's in the news:

"Esther Dingley, 37, of English nationality, disappeared during a solo outing in the Luchonnaise Pyrenees, during a period of confinement. "This hiker who left for the mountains on Sunday November 22 had planned to return on Wednesday November 25", the soldiers of the PGHM of Luchon had indicated on Friday, when launching a search notice. "The sector envisaged for his hike extends from the port of Glère to the port of Vénasque (French and Spanish sides)", they detailed, evoking an "emergency situation".
​

Pyrénées. Neuf jours après son dernier message, aucune trace de la randonneuse disparue en Haute-Garonne | Actu Toulouse

There was no "change of plan." We know that she was hiking the summit and that she planned to stay at the Refuge de Venasque during her 3 day hike. What we don't know is when she planned to overnight at the refuge.

What do we know about where she planned to stay Nov 22, 23 and 24? Surely she wasn't staying at the refuge alone for 3 days making day trips.

 

[otto]

Snipped for focus.
Exactly. She almost certainly had to have an overnight bivouac to make the loop. Plus, she'd be heading uphill ALL at the end of the hike. These 2 aspects of the plan IMO are very problematic in those conditions: it was substantially below freezing at night and going up up up on the last day of that loop after a cold night bivouac....
Note: under these conditions, it was very possible to make the loop if you started in France (at the Hospice). NOT if you started in Spain. That would be very risky IMO. If you started in France , you could do your one overnight at the Refuge and then the next day hike back down to the Hospice. Only one night would be needed, you'd be protected and warm, and you'd be going up up up on the first day of your hike, not the second..

Possibly she planned to bivouac / tent between the Port de Venasque trailhead and Port de Glère. Perhaps the earlier "first time" bivouac was all preparation for this first amazing solo trip off piste?

 

[otto]

Maybe she thought she was plotting a new trail between the two mountain ports on the Spanish side of the border, and slipped. That was helicopter searched - looking for the video ...

 

[RickshawFan]

Possibly she planned to bivouac / tent between the Port de Venasque trailhead and Port de Glère. Perhaps the earlier "first time" bivouac was all preparation for this first amazing solo trip off piste?

If she planned to return on the 25th to the Campervan, she would have 2 nights of bivouac.

 

[Skiptolou]

To me, this quote from the LBT press release implies that ED was intending to stay at the refuge on 22 Nov.

"Esther specified her route from the summit we spoke on. She had two hours of daylight to reach a refuge winter room, a distance that would have taken her less than an hour."​