Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #3

[Grouse]

<snipped for focus>
She had already spent one night in a refuge and was asking for food which tells me she may have not been happy with the food she brought with her. She may very well have been keen to return to the camper van.

In the dossier it says "21/11 –Sets off fully equipped for a 4-5 day hike from Benasque". So she was only on day 2 of that. I imagine she had a lot of food with her, but probably most of it dried. So these fruit requests make some sense to me as a way of supplementing the less perishable stuff she was carrying with "something fresh" as the skier described it. So probably not essential to her but just a way to make her diet more interesting.

 

[otto]

In one of her text messages to DC, Esther comments she “hopes the refuge has a winter room”.

That sounds as though she wouldn’t have pre-paid and potentially had not looked at the Refuge’s website/did not know exactly what facilities would be available.

I agree. If she was an organized hiker with a trip plan, she would have known about the facility, booking options, payments etc.

 

[otto]

I wouldn't reject any information.
My point was that, regardless of any stated rules, for pracical purposes it could be possible to spend a night alone at a refuge out of season and no one would know.
I really have no strong views one way or the other, I'm just trying to paint a picture of what the refuges can be like for those on this board who aren't familiar with them.

It's true that refuges/hostels rely on the honour system for sign-in and payment during off-season. Esther has spent 6 years relying on those facilities during her many mountain hikes. I assume that she does her part to support them. Therefore, if she arrived at the refuge as planned on Nov 22, she should have signed in and left payment as required.

 

[Grouse]

I agree. If she was an organized hiker with a trip plan, she would have known about the facility, booking options, payments etc.

As I just posted earlier, she only let DC know of her plans for the 23rd at 16:06 on the 22nd. Her trip plans were very fluid and subject to change IMO.

I guess with having the option of the tent it gave her some confidence to be like that, but the fact she mentioned the winter room makes me think she didn't fancy camping out that night.

 

[stmarysmead]

As I just posted earlier, she only let DC know of her plans for the 23rd at 16:06 on the 22nd. Her trip plans were very fluid and subject to change IMO.

I guess with having the option of the tent it gave her some confidence to be like that, but the fact she mentioned the winter room makes me think she didn't fancy camping out that night.

Yet the day before, she was so precise that she sent him a photo of her intended route,

 

[otto]

Yet the day before, she was so precise that she sent him a photo of her intended route,

She provided a map, but she did not know what facilities were available at the refuge.

 

[Grouse]

Yet the day before, she was so precise that she sent him a photo of her intended route,

BBM ”10:08 –Sends Dan photographs of her map to specify the area she will be hiking in." - was that her planned route or just a map of the area she planned to be in? Seems a bit open to interpretation to me.

Edited to add the link to the quote https://42cc80b7-be3b-41e3-a85b-18b...d/4addd9_d8c55b489c6f445b96d6324dd882f5a1.pdf

 

[Hatty]

DBM. I was trying to “snip” and it didn’t work! How do you do it?

 

[Ruthbullock]

Something to keep in the back of your minds when we talk about familiarity with routes- ED had done Benasque to port de benasque to pic de sauvegarde at least three times when she last spoke to DC, and the refuge really wasn’t that far from that path (to the point I’m slightly surprised she didn’t check it out the day before, knowing she was close to it and planned to stay the following night). The route on the French side is very much more familiar- there are several trips to Luchon on the blog where they did cycle routes and referenced having visited the area many times and had been to the hospice de France several times as well.

 

[Hatty]

Why didn't she ask for chocolate, then?

I would have asked for chocolate - Lindt truffles!

Seriously, Esther was very health conscious apparently so I guess maybe she didn’t eat chocolate.

 

[Hatty]

It is written in the 3rd person though, referring to 'DC' rather than 'I'. Unless he chose to write in that style. It creates a sense of detachment of him from the information really. Strange way to write in the circumstances if he wrote it himself. IMO

It may seem odd but LBT Global May have asked DC to write it in the third person. After all he writes books.
Even if they did write it in consultation with DC, I would be surprised if he hadn’t viewed and approved it for publication.

 

[Hatty]

I read about this case recently in my local paper, I live in a nearby town and I can understand why they may be upset about returning to cold bleak North East England in mind of lockdown and Brexit. They were apprehensive about future no doubt, then the solo hikes indicate EDs determination perhaps to make the best of the clear winter days. Reading the dossier, it is clear that we cannot rely 100% on this information, we do not know if ED posted the messages and without mobile mast, the location data is not known or unreliable. We do not have information to go on of the identity of the mystery stranger. If it was ED sending the sms, was her final message indicating a final goodbye , it cannot be ruled out as voluntary disappearance i.e. Meeting someone, making a connection, maybe wanting to avoid a hard break up/unwanting to return to UK or maybe wanting New experiences and to meet a local perhaps - certainly this has happened before and is the best case scenario for ED imo. The other thought is that if hopefully we are assuming she is still alive, based on conditions, is a kidnap/captor motive particularly in lockdown with few people around and therefore increased opportunity. Unfortunately, it seems that other than accident, the outlook atm is a range of uncomfortable scenarios.

They were actually planning to live in France according to a comment made by DC on Facebook.

 

[axelcruze]

It may seem odd but LBT Global May have asked DC to write it in the third person. After all he writes books.
Even if they did write it in consultation with DC, I would be surprised if he hadn’t viewed and approved it for publication.

What experience do DC and LBTG have of carrying out investigations? The police have issued a missing persons and traced cell phone locations I'd imagine, so not sure why the 3rd party is involved, from their website it seems that they list missing persons but ha e they solved cases? Releasing incorrect info to the media can harm a case, like with MM.

 

[fridaybaker]

If there was a bad actor involved at that point it seems a bit risky to force her to make that call rather than just let the texts suffice. I can't see why someone would do that. But yes without knowing the details of the video call I guess it is a possibility. DC described it thus and I see no reason to doubt him "Our last conversation was totally loving and all smiles. She was so happy, and we were excited to see each other." Esther & Dan (see 14th December). Knowing her as long as he had I doubt he wouldn't have picked up on something if those smiles were forced.

It's certainly hard to take what ANYONE says as fact without personally knowing that person. However, I've long thought this about DC. The fact that they've been together for so long, and doing exactly the same as, or very similar to, what ED was doing at the time of her disappearance, give much credence to his assessment of the situation. He knew her like hardly anyone knows another person, from what I can figure. I know that he's given some indication as to why he thinks she could have been a victim of foul play, and I also think those are valid points, but there is just the fact that that's his assessment -the closest person to the situation. I also add to this the fact that her mother seems to support other things he's said, such as comments on her nature and habits, that I have to think he and his ideas about the case very reliable.

I'll add this for contrast: There was a woman who went missing in the desert in the States. She and her husband were older, and she went missing during the summer. The husband came up with what seemed like a very strange story -that someone had kidnapped her and taken her to...somewhere. Can't remember. But he was very specific. Now, he seemed from the beginning to be a less reliable witness for several reasons -he hadn't done the "re-tracing" of route like DC has; they hadn't been joined at the hip living this extraordinary lifestyle for the last many years, etc. In the end, it looks like she got disoriented or suffered some medical event and succumbed to the desert heat. Her body was found near where they were separated.

DC's theory, on the other hand, makes me sit up and listen.

 

[Hatty]

snipped for focus
Hatty, I have wondered this too. I am not completely clear how much of the trek back to ED's van in Banasque from the Pic de Sauvegarde trail head was on a paved road vs. trail, but I have imagined there is a good amount of paved road. Hence the idea of hitching a ride, especially if it was getting late and dark. But, like you, I have also thought of all the time spent on the Susan McLean case looking for her on the side of the narrow road where she had walked. Were the side of the roads searched for ED?

RedHaus I haven’t seen anything about off mountain searches but I like to think it would be on SAR’s list of things to do, unless of course they’ve ruled out this possibility for some reason.

 

[fridaybaker]

Since authorities do not have her phone, no one can know if she was contacted by “new friends” to switch up her plans and hike with them.
/QUOTE]
BSBM: Couldn't the phone company give at least the numbers of those she last communicated with by phone/message?

 

[stmarysmead]

It's certainly hard to take what ANYONE says as fact without personally knowing that person. However, I've long thought this about DC. The fact that they've been together for so long, and doing exactly the same as, or very similar to, what ED was doing at the time of her disappearance, give much credence to his assessment of the situation. He knew her like hardly anyone knows another person, from what I can figure. I know that he's given some indication as to why he thinks she could have been a victim of foul play, and I also think those are valid points, but there is just the fact that that's his assessment -the closest person to the situation. I also add to this the fact that her mother seems to support other things he's said, such as comments on her nature and habits, that I have to think he and his ideas about the case very reliable.

I'll add this for contrast: There was a woman who went missing in the desert in the States. She and her husband were older, and she went missing during the summer. The husband came up with what seemed like a very strange story -that someone had kidnapped her and taken her to...somewhere. Can't remember. But he was very specific. Now, he seemed from the beginning to be a less reliable witness for several reasons -he hadn't done the "re-tracing" of route like DC has; they hadn't been joined at the hip living this extraordinary lifestyle for the last many years, etc. In the end, it looks like she got disoriented or suffered some medical event and succumbed to the desert heat. Her body was found near where they were separated.

DC's theory, on the other hand, makes me sit up and listen.

Good post. But if he knew her so well...knew her proclivity for frequent interactions with him...knew that it wouldn’t take three days to reach cell service SOMEPLACE...why did he wait so long to call the authorities?

Any guesses?

Dan describes this cautious, experienced athlete who kept him up to date on everything. They had been together to the French side several times. So he certainly knew there would be cell service there.

Did he really believe that in three whole days she would never pass thru ANY area with cell service? Or that she wouldn’t try her cell occasionally to at least text?

If she “dipped in’ to France..he certainly knew the availability of cell service there from their previous trips.

So what was he telling himself in those three long days? She had the chargers. Did he imagine that no where on any route in Spain was cell service available? Or that Esther, so otherwise predictable, had suddenly become adverse or carefree as to checking in with anybody?

 

[fridaybaker]

One small item that caught my attention in reading the Dossier in one page 20: "This hike was about... being outdoors and going slowly for her, as opposed to the 1000-mile hike in summer which was about going a long way. f) Some people have questioned why she returned to the same peak twice. The simple answer was that she liked it up there and this hike wasn’t about ‘peak-bagging’ for her."

He is very sure about what the current hike "is about"; however, elsewhere he describes their approach somewhat differently. I think one of their recent hikes (Alps?) was supposed to be a relaxed one, but they ended up pushing themselves harder than they ever had before. He's also mentioned in the past that they sort of "go with the flow". Not an exact quote because I can't find it, but that is the idea. They're open to possibilities as they go along. So, plan one thing, do another. Makes me wonder if something similar happened here.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I doubt Dan KNEW she’d have phone signal on Monday. They had cycled in the area (ie on roads and through villages) but I have never seen any suggestion they had climbed in that area or been in the mountains there.

 

[otto]

Good post. But if he knew her so well...knew her proclivity for frequent interactions with him...knew that it wouldn’t take three days to reach cell service SOMEPLACE...why did he wait so long to call the authorities?

Any guesses?

Dan describes this cautious, experienced athlete who kept him up to date on everything. They had been together to the French side several times. So he certainly knew there would be cell service there.

Did he really believe that in three whole days she would never pass thru ANY area with cell service? Or that she wouldn’t try her cell occasionally to at least text?

If she “dipped in’ to France..he certainly knew the availability of cell service there from their previous trips.

So what was he telling himself in those three long days? She had the chargers. Did he imagine that no where on any route in Spain was cell service available? Or that Esther, so otherwise predictable, had suddenly become adverse or carefree as to checking in with anybody?

He probably did what every parent does when an adult child fails to get in touch within an expected timeline - worry and hope for the best. There are many reasons to explain being out of touch.

Even if he had reported that she was out of touch sooner, I doubt SAR would start the search until she was overdue.