Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #3

[sundaaaay]

It’s easy to stand beside a body of water and say it’s not possible to fall in here, but remember the conditions were different when she was there. Night was falling, it was beginning to get dark, it was cold, she seems to have been hungry.

 

[Onlinesleuth]

I believe she fell in somewhere on one of the lakes Rocky edges that evening or the following morning as wet patches iced over in the freezing temperatures. She may have went off piste, been taking a photo at the lakes edge, we will probably never know. Falling into water at that temperature with a heavy bag, alone, is extremely dangerous. I think the most likely piece of evidence that will be found is one of her walking poles assuming she was using them.

Why didn’t the SAR dogs find her tracks down to the water’s edge? After that thorough search with zero result, the disappearance was quickly given a criminal investigation status.

 

[Grouse]

No, correction - the LBT charity isn’t and wasn’t dealing with public relations for the books and BBC feature prior to ED’s disappearance. The LBT is dealing only with press ENQUIRIES regarding the disappearance of ED - a totally separate exercise.

But you mentioned (BBM) "the current deafening silence of the family" and "her father is staying completely and utterly schtum" - and the obvious answer to that is the family is now, very wisely (IMO), using LBT for communications. Why on earth would the family start talking to the press now? I doubt that would turn out well for them.

 

[Onlinesleuth]

I may be wrong, but as they were planning to apply for residence in France post-brexit I would think it would make that easier to do by staying there. Probably harder to get back in once you leave?

Very good point... plus they knew when the returned they’d be subject to very strict lockdown rules - particularly at that exact time in their precise area ie NE England was a complete no go area plus they’d have had the statuary 14 days self-isolation period.

 

[Tortoise]

It’s easy to stand beside a body of water and say it’s not possible to fall in here, but remember the conditions were different when she was there. Night was falling, it was beginning to get dark, it was cold, she seems to have been hungry.

I think she'd have had her pack off if she was getting water. I know I'd have taken it off at the first opportunity after arriving.

 

[Onlinesleuth]

But you mentioned (BBM) "the current deafening silence of the family" and "her father is staying completely and utterly schtum" - and the obvious answer to that is the family is now, very wisely (IMO), using LBT for communications. Why on earth would the family start talking to the press now? I doubt that would turn out well for them.

Normally, right at the start, members of the family make a direct appeal via the local and/or international media (ie before LBT was brought on board).

<modsnip>

Re the deafening silence now, I was referring to the authorities rather than the family - no new appeals from the police, which to me means they are busy quietly working on their own significant lines of enquiry with no help required from the general public...

<modsnip>

 

[Onlinesleuth]

I think she'd have had her pack off if she was getting water. I know I'd have taken it off at the first opportunity after arriving.

Exactly - which is why I think it’s highly unlikely

 

[Onlinesleuth]

This is a great example of how having a chaotic lifestyle bleeds into friendships with close friends and family. Because they didn’t think ahead - a constant feature of their life - they had to impose their dogs on others. If EDs family were to answer honestly, I think they’d have quite a story to tell about the negative impact of ED and DC’s spontaneous decisions - perhaps why her father is staying completely and utterly schtum. To me, the current deafening silence of the family and the authorities speaks volumes...

Edit: No new releases via LBT, no appeals from the authorities

 

[Inverloch]

Exactly - one dog is expensive, lifestyle inhibiting and time consuming, never mind five.

We must be very lucky, our little dog is none of these things! I can see that having several dogs in tow would have compromised E&D's lifestyle, however.

I may be wrong, but as they were planning to apply for residence in France post-brexit I would think it would make that easier to do by staying there. Probably harder to get back in once you leave?

<modsnip>

 

[Onlinesleuth]

I adore dogs but they are expensive if you look after them properly ie regular check ups at the vet, inoculations, quality boarding when leaving them to travel, quality food, regular grooming, pet passports, bowls/leads/vitamins... it all adds up.

 

[CocoChanel]

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[Grouse]

<modsnip>

OK, done some reading up and it seems one reason a trail can be lost is melting snow - from a Mountain Rescue Magazine article about trailing dogs - " The path was trailed along until the trail was lost in melting snow" https://www.nsarda.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Mij-1.pdf

I know the heavy snow didn't come until after the SAR operation started, but there was quite a lot of snow on the peak in ED's photographs. Given the sunny conditions preceding the search it's possible some of this melted before the search began, and at the point the trail was lost.

 

[gribb0]

Dan's dossier says on page 21 I think that they didn't use sniffer dogs - he offered them some of Esther's clothes but they declined. The only place I have have seen sniffer dogs mentioned is the Sun newspaper so hardly reliable. Some of the searchers apparently had dogs but there is no mention of what sort or why.

I hope Esther is found soon and Dan can find some peace.

 

[Grouse]

Dan's dossier says on page 21 I think that they didn't use sniffer dogs - he offered them some of Esther's clothes but they declined. The only place I have have seen sniffer dogs mentioned is the Sun newspaper so hardly reliable. Some of the searchers apparently had dogs but there is no mention of what sort or why.

I made that point as well in post #690. The notion that has been introduced today is that they were used earlier in the search and the trail ran cold at a specific point. But there's been no evidence/links offered to back it up. I found some similar discussion of this sniffer dog trail gone cold on another forum today (quite an unpleasant thread actually).

Without any proof I'm taking it with a pinch of salt, but either way I think the melting snow I mentioned offers a plausible explanation.

 

[RickshawFan]

but DC said himself that she couldn’t have fallen into water as the paths were wide

Snipped for focus
If DC made this statement—I'm not clear that he did—it would be incorrect, as is easily seen from photos. Plus, there are clearly trails and other areas that are cliff-edge.

 

[RickshawFan]

But that whole scenario is nixed by the fact her trail apparently halted at a specific spot and the dogs circled around unable to find a track.

Snipped for focus....
I can't recall a source for this. Would you mind posting a link to it, so we all have the same verifiable information?

 

[otto]

Only one dog, George, is with her parents, from at least May 16, according to FB. But she does mentioning two dogs being later “reunited”...on Nov 7....could be a second one went to her parents.

On Nov 13, she mentions she is without all the dogs “for one reason or another” and writes poignantly of missing them and the healing they bring to her. There are so many dog posts, this is clearly very difficult for Esther.

I keep coming back to the date of Nov 22. Dan posts to their blog a thank you to BBC and a copy of the article, their big break through in PR. Two days earlier they had achieved another publicity article about the dog books in the Olive Press.ES.

How strange that Esther disappears on the VERY same day that they receive such important publicity for their books.

Dan Colgate has written a number of books. The memoire of their travels is authored by Dan and edited by Esther. The children's books are authored by Esther, Dan and a third person. I'm curious how she felt about editing their memoire, a story she knows as well as Dan, but not a being recognized as a co-author.

I'm not implying anything, just curious about the timing of disappearance and promotions about his June 2020 book as well as their books.

Puppy Pack Adventures | Esther & Dan - Adventuring Together - Life, Love, Health & Travel

 

[Grouse]

Snipped for focus
If DC made this statement—I'm not clear that he did—it would be incorrect, as is easily seen from photos. Plus, there are clearly trails and other areas that are cliff-edge.

I don't think he said she "couldn't have". From the LBT press release 14th December "Reference to falling into the lakes, which was a story for a day, is also possible, but also highly unlikely. The paths near the lakes are wide and easy. You do not just fall ten metres sideways into a lake." https://www.lbt.global/media-releases

 

[RickshawFan]

It’s easy to stand beside a body of water and say it’s not possible to fall in here, but remember the conditions were different when she was there. Night was falling, it was beginning to get dark, it was cold, she seems to have been hungry.

You can trip, slip, knee-buckle, in daylight, too.

ED would be very tippy in that pack, too.

 

[otto]

Perhaps... but DC said himself that she couldn’t have fallen into water as the paths were wide UNLESS the locals are correct and the path to the refuge is dangerously slippy and she rolled down into the lake. OR she tried to collect water from the lake before entering the refuge and fell in. But that whole scenario is nixed by the fact her trail apparently halted at a specific spot and the dogs circled around unable to find a track. To me, this suggests she retraced her steps back down the mountain. Also, she hadn’t checked the winter room - before I go ANYWHERE, I book the accommodation options. I don’t think she ever planned going to the refuge... she went back up to the same place she’d been before to meet someone, as pre-arranged, to let them see for themselves what she’d been raving about the day before, went back down the mountain with them, left in a vehicle. Didn’t let on about any of it to social media users because nobody was supposed to be out of their home due to lockdown. My theory.

Locals know the hazard of the mountains far better than nomadic mountain climbers from the UK. The risk of accident is high, regardless of what he partner claims.

I have difficulty believing that Esther is alive and is putting her family through the pain and fear associated with not knowing where she is.

"Locals fear Dingley may have plunged into freezing waters, explaining why no trace of her has yet been found. ... “These kind of accidents are sadly very common all year round.

“Over the decades, people have fallen in the still and very deep water, and drowned, or severely injured themselves.

“In the past, it was common for bodies to disappear in the winter, because of the snow and increased water depth, and then to appear in the spring.

“The possibility of someone slipping into water is high, and with nobody else to rescue them or raise the alarm, the consequences can be fatal.”
​

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/worldnews/13403493/esther-dingley-lake/