Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #3

[10ofRods]

I haven't been able to figure out why the couple didn't just return to England, dogs and all, since the dogs were so important, and the couple couldn't—for whatever reason— hang onto them if they stayed in France.
And with Brexit and COVID, they were going to have to hassle with decision making and paperwork about their status. I guess they hadn't navigated this yet? The couple seem to have arrived at decisions for the dogs, given the circumstances, but not for themselves, so that surprises me.

One theory (not my own, someone else spelled it out to me) is that both members of this couple were facing a change in lifestyle, whether they wished it or not - post-Brexit.

No longer could they spend all the time they wished touring Europe. In fact, both France and Spain would soon be limiting them, legally, to 90 days every 180 days. So they would have had to return to UK every 90 days, and stay for 90 days, before being legally allowed back in the EU.

Nothing has been said in MSM about them applying for dual citizenship, probably because they didn't meet the qualifications (one needs to show employment in the new nation, etc).

Anyway, someone I work with put forward the theory that DC may have been preparing himself mentally to go back to UK and "settle down" while ED wanted to continue their van lifestyle. To do this, however, she would have to get very used to a new lifestyle wherein she was not in compliance with visa regulations. People apparently do plan to do this, there are even online forums about how to "live underground in Europe" in the new Brexit world.

I'm not sure how I feel about this theory, but at one level, it does make sense that if Esther was planning to be more adventurous than ever and disagreed with DC about going back to UK, that she'd leave the dogs (and even the van) to continue wandering. However, personally, I think this would denote some deeper unhappiness and issues with regular life. In my professional life, I've observed, met and interviewed several such people (longterm residents on national lands in the US, for example, who are not exactly within the rules of the national parks). This kind of very solitary life appeals to some people (John Muir is an historic example).

The fact that the dossier doesn't address this new citizenship issue is interesting to me and I'll watch with interest to see if we learn what DC (and the dogs) do next. Perhaps DC was in fact employed by someone to housesit for a long enough period of time that he could have applied for some kind of settled status - in France.

 

[IrisElizabeth]

Dan's dossier says on page 21 I think that they didn't use sniffer dogs - he offered them some of Esther's clothes but they declined. The only place I have have seen sniffer dogs mentioned is the Sun newspaper so hardly reliable. Some of the searchers apparently had dogs but there is no mention of what sort or why.

I hope Esther is found soon and Dan can find some peace.

The dossier specifically says the French police declined Esther's clothing, but I can't find anywhere that states the Spanish police did not use sniffer dogs..

 

[Grouse]

<snipped for focus>
Nothing has been said in MSM about them applying for dual citizenship, probably because they didn't meet the qualifications (one needs to show employment in the new nation, etc).

BBM

"Mr Colegate said that this theory hurt because it was based on an anecdote, and that he and Ms Dingley were already planning to apply for residency in France together." Boyfriend of Briton who vanished in Pyrenees rubbishes claim she was unhappy in their relationship | Daily Mail Online

It's known as residency rather than dual citizenship in post-Brexit/EU context

"UK nationals living in France at the end of the transition period need to obtain a residence permit, but in the vast majority of cases it will be a formality. " - Moving to France After Brexit

 

[Puzzles]

If it's believed probable cause for ED's disappearance is that she had an accident, and search for her body will continue when weather permits, why have UK authorities now joined the French and Spanish teams?

It seems strange that UK LE became involved more recently, IIRC it was sometime in January.
Their involvement surely isn't required to locate a deceased hiker when snow melts a couple of months from now.

Is their collaboration indicative of the criminal investigation involving a third party?

IMO, it underlines our certainty that we have very little information about what exactly LE are investigating.

 

[IrisElizabeth]

Dan's dossier says on page 21 I think that they didn't use sniffer dogs - he offered them some of Esther's clothes but they declined. The only place I have have seen sniffer dogs mentioned is the Sun newspaper so hardly reliable. Some of the searchers apparently had dogs but there is no mention of what sort or why.

I hope Esther is found soon and Dan can find some peace.

The dossier specifically says the French police declined Esther's clothing, but I can't find anywhere that states the Spanish police did not use sniffer dogs..

 

[ZaZara]

One theory (not my own, someone else spelled it out to me) is that both members of this couple were facing a change in lifestyle, whether they wished it or not - post-Brexit.

No longer could they spend all the time they wished touring Europe. In fact, both France and Spain would soon be limiting them, legally, to 90 days every 180 days. So they would have had to return to UK every 90 days, and stay for 90 days, before being legally allowed back in the EU.

Nothing has been said in MSM about them applying for dual citizenship, probably because they didn't meet the qualifications (one needs to show employment in the new nation, etc).

Anyway, someone I work with put forward the theory that DC may have been preparing himself mentally to go back to UK and "settle down" while ED wanted to continue their van lifestyle. To do this, however, she would have to get very used to a new lifestyle wherein she was not in compliance with visa regulations. People apparently do plan to do this, there are even online forums about how to "live underground in Europe" in the new Brexit world.

I'm not sure how I feel about this theory, but at one level, it does make sense that if Esther was planning to be more adventurous than ever and disagreed with DC about going back to UK, that she'd leave the dogs (and even the van) to continue wandering. However, personally, I think this would denote some deeper unhappiness and issues with regular life. In my professional life, I've observed, met and interviewed several such people (longterm residents on national lands in the US, for example, who are not exactly within the rules of the national parks). This kind of very solitary life appeals to some people (John Muir is an historic example).

The fact that the dossier doesn't address this new citizenship issue is interesting to me and I'll watch with interest to see if we learn what DC (and the dogs) do next. Perhaps DC was in fact employed by someone to housesit for a long enough period of time that he could have applied for some kind of settled status - in France.

Esther Dingley has a Dutch passport, that would allow them to settle or roam in the EU any time. No legal limit. They might have to get married. Big deal.

End of story.

 

[otto]

Esther Dingley has a Dutch passport, that would allow them to settle or roam in the EU any time. No legal limit. They might have to get married. Big deal.

End of story.

We know that her father lives in the NL, but do we know that she has applied for a Dutch passport?

 

[Grouse]

We know that her father lives in the NL, but do we know that she has applied for a Dutch passport?

She was actually born there of a Dutch mother. "The granddaughter of World War II hero Warwick Dingley, who was awarded the Military Cross for his service in Italy, she had been born in Amsterdam to a Dutch mother and British businessman father." --> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9027645/Pictured-Missing-British-hiker-Esther-Dingleys-Fiat-camper-van.html

 

[Grouse]

If it's believed probable cause for ED's disappearance is that she had an accident, and search for her body will continue when weather permits, why have UK authorities now joined the French and Spanish teams?

It seems strange that UK LE became involved more recently, IIRC it was sometime in January.
Their involvement surely isn't required to locate a deceased hiker when snow melts a couple of months from now.

Is their collaboration indicative of the criminal investigation involving a third party?

IMO, it underlines our certainty that we have very little information about what exactly LE are investigating.

According to @Hatty up thread

<snipped for focus>
British police would be involved as she is a British citizen and will be handling UK background enquiries

 

[Puzzles]

Oh yes, Grouse (and @Hatty), I remember now. Thank you. Then do I assume it's not curious they became involved recently, rather than at the beginning of investigations?

 

[Grouse]

Oh yes, Grouse (and @Hatty), I remember now. Thank you. Then do I assume it's not curious they became involved recently, rather than at the beginning of investigations?

I don't know the answer to that Puzzles.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Esther Dingley has a Dutch passport, that would allow them to settle or roam in the EU any time. No legal limit. They might have to get married. Big deal.

End of story.

Do we know for definite she has a Dutch passport? The Netherlands has no jus soli (soil rights) for citizenship and when Esther was born it was only automatic if the father was Dutch. I’ve had a google and it’s quite complicated!

 

[otto]

Do we know for definite she has a Dutch passport? The Netherlands has no jus soli (soil rights) for citizenship and when Esther was born it was only automatic if the father was Dutch. I’ve had a google and it’s quite complicated!

That's why I was curious whether she had applied for a passport. I have two Dutch parents, but have never applied for the passport because it is complicated.

 

[ZaZara]

Do we know for definite she has a Dutch passport? The Netherlands has no jus soli (soil rights) for citizenship and when Esther was born it was only automatic if the father was Dutch. I’ve had a google and it’s quite complicated!

It is on their blog

Plus, Esther has a Dutch passport so we will always be able to settle in Europe in the future one way or another.

Lost in France – Brexit Driven Meanderings | Esther & Dan - Adventuring Together - Life, Love, Health & Travel

 

[CoverMeCagney]

It is on their blog



Lost in France – Brexit Driven Meanderings | Esther & Dan - Adventuring Together - Life, Love, Health & Travel

Excellent, I knew you’d have evidence

 

[ZaZara]

Excellent, I knew you’d have evidence

I thought that was evident from the beginning? It was to me anyway. The Spaniards call her la montañera británico-holandesa for a reason.

 

[RickshawFan]

One theory (not my own, someone else spelled it out to me) is that both members of this couple were facing a change in lifestyle, whether they wished it or not - post-Brexit.

No longer could they spend all the time they wished touring Europe. In fact, both France and Spain would soon be limiting them, legally, to 90 days every 180 days. So they would have had to return to UK every 90 days, and stay for 90 days, before being legally allowed back in the EU.

Nothing has been said in MSM about them applying for dual citizenship, probably because they didn't meet the qualifications (one needs to show employment in the new nation, etc).

Anyway, someone I work with put forward the theory that DC may have been preparing himself mentally to go back to UK and "settle down" while ED wanted to continue their van lifestyle. To do this, however, she would have to get very used to a new lifestyle wherein she was not in compliance with visa regulations. People apparently do plan to do this, there are even online forums about how to "live underground in Europe" in the new Brexit world.

I'm not sure how I feel about this theory, but at one level, it does make sense that if Esther was planning to be more adventurous than ever and disagreed with DC about going back to UK, that she'd leave the dogs (and even the van) to continue wandering. However, personally, I think this would denote some deeper unhappiness and issues with regular life. In my professional life, I've observed, met and interviewed several such people (longterm residents on national lands in the US, for example, who are not exactly within the rules of the national parks). This kind of very solitary life appeals to some people (John Muir is an historic example).

The fact that the dossier doesn't address this new citizenship issue is interesting to me and I'll watch with interest to see if we learn what DC (and the dogs) do next. Perhaps DC was in fact employed by someone to housesit for a long enough period of time that he could have applied for some kind of settled status - in France.

Yep, on all of the above.

It seems as though they were unable to "refresh the adventure" and arrive at what they needed in a slightly different format (e.g. by changing countries, even going to Scotland in the van until they had clarity on Brexit).
Something else must have been going on...

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I thought that was evident from the beginning? It was to me anyway. The Spaniards call her la montañera británico-holandesa for a reason.

Ha, that pesky Holland thing again. I’d never seen her called that.

 

[ZaZara]

Ha, that pesky Holland thing again. I’d never seen her called that.

Spanish press, when the news of the disappearance broke:
(lower corner on the right)

 

[stmarysmead]

I do not believe that Esther, as sensitive as she presents herself to be on social media, would disappear to create a new life and put her loved ones thru this agony.

But IMO I do believe a seriously depressed person could plan a suicide that would present as an accident and spare her loved ones the knowledge of her despair. Leaving no note, no explanation, lots of loving words as the last contact...it would then be an act of mercy in a way. A fall, a drowning, puts the blame on a misstep, or icy path, and there’s no need to torture oneself with thoughts of what one might have said or done as a preventive.

Of course, we are far from knowing if this scenario plays a part in this disappearance. But the thought does cross my mind.