Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #4

[tarabull]

The van was impounded three days AFTER the dog walker called LE to report that the light was on inside it & someone was laying down...

Is THAT new info??? 3 days later??? REALLY?

It's reported here: Missing hiker Esther Dingley's campervan 'spotted with someone sleeping inside' - NZ Herald

 

[FrostOwl]

After years of anthropological work in criminal circumstances, I disagree that memory is *easily overridden" by circumstances. I doubt we'd survive as a species if true.

But, if there are external threats and pressures, yes, the memory does change (and in domestic situations, that's rather common). This is not one of those situations, IMO, so far as we know.

Certain details of memory are not as malleable - I could write a dissertation on that topic. People rarely forget, for example, whether an assailant is a man, woman, boy or girl. People may forget/fudge some things - but a sensitive interviewer finds that out rapidly.

We can't interview missing people, of course.

But I disagree that eyewitnesses are one of the "most unreliable forms" of evidence - and in fact, I also assert that the law agrees with me. Eyewitness evidence is pretty much the only thing that's not circumstantial. Eyewitnesses are revered throughout history. Sure, they can miss on some small detail - but perhaps you can list examples where eyewitnesses have been very wrong?

Or any other citation to back up this rather extraordinary statement. Just look through one or two day's worth of WS threads - the eyewitnesses are rarely wrong. Erika Lloyd's car was found vandalized and abandoned. Her camp was found deserted. By eyewitnesses. We could go on - but truly, I'd like to see the research on which you base this assertion, because without eyewitnesses, most criminal cases are dead in the water. So they're valuable, IMO.

As for eyewitnesses being wrong, there is the assassination of Olof Palme. Almost three years later his wife Lisbeth pointed out Christer Pettersson in a lineup as her husband's killer, but he was acquitted later on, and there is now another suspect for the murder. The crime is still unsolved, although the current suspect appears to be a more likely perpetrator. Lisbeth Palme was a children's psychologist, and by some that was considered to strengthen her credibility as an eyewitness.
Assassination of Olof Palme - Wikipedia

 

[PeggyHenry]

The van was impounded three days AFTER the dog walker called LE to report that the light was on inside it & someone was laying down...

Is THAT new info??? 3 days later??? REALLY?

It's reported here: Missing hiker Esther Dingley's campervan 'spotted with someone sleeping inside' - NZ Herald

I am surprised to read that. Although, at first, the case was simply treated as a missing person case, in that Esther had not returned to the van after her hiking expedition. Maybe three days after the dog walkers sighting it became a criminal case.... I can’t remember exactly when it was reported as having become a criminal investigation ....

 

[ZaZara]

The van was impounded three days AFTER the dog walker called LE to report that the light was on inside it & someone was laying down...

Is THAT new info??? 3 days later??? REALLY?

It's reported here: Missing hiker Esther Dingley's campervan 'spotted with someone sleeping inside' - NZ Herald

Coming from New Zealand, it must be true. Everybody knows they have reporters on the ground in the Spanish Pyrenees.

 

[stmarysmead]

Coming from New Zealand, it must be true. Everybody knows they have reporters on the ground in the Spanish Pyrenees.

Let’s be fair. This report was not exclusively in the NZ media. A variation of the same article was in the UK Times, the Sun, the Daily Mail...and probably picked up by many American/ European papers as well. Most of these media stories are shared around the world.

Dog walker saw someone asleep in Brit hiker Esther Dingley's camper van TEN DAYS after she vanished | Daily Mail Online

“When Spanish Police were contacted about the presence of someone in Esther's van at 10pm on December 2, they said it was one of their forensic officers. They have since declined to comment.

The van was impounded by the Guardia Civil three days after the sighting on December 5 and is parked in the police compound for forensic.

Thanks for spotting this, Tarabull. Are we to assume that while they searched the mountains for Esther, no one bothered to see who 0r what might be going on in the van?

 

[ZaZara]

Let’s be fair. This report was not exclusively in the NZ media. A variation of the same article was in the UK Times, the Sun, the Daily Mail...and probably picked up by many American/ European papers as well. Most of these media stories are shared around the world.

Dog walker saw someone asleep in Brit hiker Esther Dingley's camper van TEN DAYS after she vanished | Daily Mail Online

“When Spanish Police were contacted about the presence of someone in Esther's van at 10pm on December 2, they said it was one of their forensic officers. They have since declined to comment.

The van was impounded by the Guardia Civil three days after the sighting on December 5 and is parked in the police compound for forensic.

Thanks for spotting this, Tarabull. Are we to assume that while they searched the mountains for Esther, no one bothered to see who 0r what might be going on in the van?

Fair? If you want to be fair, don't mention the copycats.
None of the papers that you mention has reporters on the ground in the Pyrenees. There is only one source, namely a newspaper that pays for your news.

Someone took a picture and said something, to the newspaper that pays for news. And hey! so it became worldwide news.

Meanwhile, the van was probably the first place where LE looked when Esther was reported missing from France. They would have noticed if it had looked suspicious.

 

[stmarysmead]

Fair? If you want to be fair, don't mention the copycats.
None of the papers that you mention has reporters on the ground in the Pyrenees. There is only one source, namely a newspaper that pays for your news.

Someone took a picture and said something, to the newspaper that pays for news. And hey! so it became worldwide news.

Meanwhile, the van was probably the first place where LE looked when Esther was reported missing from France. They would have noticed if it had looked suspicious.

But this is true of most international news stories. AP and UPI and other new services pick up news from the local media. The local police did not deny that someone was in the van. They did not call out the report as false. They instead offered a very bizarre explanation that a forensic expert was there sleeping late in the evening having arrived in an unmarked car.

What forensic expert sleeps in a possible crime scene?

Having spent much previous time on the Jon Benet thread over the years, it can be astounding what small town police, unaccustomed to crime, DO NOT DO. IMO It is possible that this bizarre story is a coverup for the fact that they never secured or investigated the van and oops, some vagrant was sleeping there.

You mentioned before that Esther notified them of a 2 day trek. Is there a link for that? Because Dan said it was a longer trek. If your information is correct, and Esther was keeping local police updated..that could bring up another set of questions. Why didn’t they worry if a woman meticulous enough to leave a specific parameter...did not return as scheduled. They might have begun searching much sooner. Where did you read that information?

 

[j_in_c]

There may well have been confirmed sightings/CCTV of Ed which have not been disclosed to the media.

I wonder if the family or LBT Global has considered offering a reward for information about her.
<RSBM>
We all know so little, and we all wonder so much.

I would be truly shocked if there are any confirmed sightings of ED since her disappearance that have not been shared publicly. Before the disappearance, yes, I can see police not feeling inclined to share every image, but if she was captured say at a border crossing/ATM/train station, they would want everyone to be on the lookout for a missing person. With the exception of someone who is a fugitive from the law or if they were a victim of a crime, I can't think of any case where this information would not be shared. In a missing person situation the "last place seen" is critical to ask for public assistance in finding the subject.

As much as we go around, I still think this is a recovery and that things are as they appear, an all too common accident in the wilderness.

 

[Huffbuff]

You mentioned before that Esther notified them of a 2 day trek. Is there a link for that? Because Dan said it was a longer trek.

I’m not very good at this but I did take a screenshot of this point back in December. I’ll try and add a pic of my screenshot.

 

[Huffbuff]

 

[Huffbuff]

You mentioned before that Esther notified them of a 2 day trek. Is there a link for that? Because Dan said it was a longer trek. If your information is correct, and Esther was keeping local police updated..that could bring up another set of questions.

You mentioned before that Esther notified them of a 2 day trek. Is there a link for that? Because Dan said it was a longer trek. If

I have a note that Sky news quoted Marti Vigo del Arco that Esther informed the Civil Guard that she would be spending two or three days in the mountains. It is thought she did this on the first day of the trip.

 

[stmarysmead]

“21/11 – Sets off fully equipped for a 4-5 day hike from Benasque (route details are given below). Her immediate plan is to hitchhike to Hospital de Benasque and explore the area around the head of the
valley. She reaches the Pic de Sauvegarde in the early afternoon and lets her family know she is safe but that phone signal is poor in the area. She also shares some pictures on Instagram.”

This is from the Dossier. So did she tell Dan she’d be gone for much longer than she told the local police. That’s a bit strange. On one hand, she seems meticulous in keeping local police informed. She wouldn’t want them to think the van was abandoned. But why not tell them 4-5 days, giving herself extra time to get back?

‘At the same time, she gives Dan a timetable that’s almost twice as long.

 

[PeggyHenry]

Yes, why the discrepancy between the dossier and what she told the local police? That’s a really good spot !

Was this deliberate or did she simply change her mind in between telling the police and telling DC?

Maybe she wanted some time to herself once back at the van. Is it possible that the updates to DC weren’t entirely correct. Maybe designed to stop him worrying or give herself headspace from the relationship. Are we making too much of this? I tend to think not...

 

[stmarysmead]

What if she did come back in three days just as she told police? Nov 21-23 or24 would be the time she indicated that she’d be gone to police. What if she returned in that period after all?

She might have wanted some quiet time as PeggyHenry suggests. Maybe she wanted to get started earlier and surprise Dan. She tells Dan that there’s not much cell service in order to put him off for awhile.

Dan did not report her missing until Nov 25 and the search in the mountains did not begin until “first light on the 26th.”

What if she encountered trouble right at the van? What If she encountered someone sleeping there?

 

[touch]

I've found the link being discussed here: Esther Dingley: Olympic skier 'saw' missing British hiker on day she disappeared in Pyrenees

This is the important part:

"She told us she had informed the civil guard that she would be spending two or three days hiking in the mountains, I think this was the first day of the trip."

He's not correct that it was the first day of her trip. He says he met her at 3pm on 22nd, so that would be nearing the end of the second day of her trip.
Could be just a slight misunderstanding, maybe due to language barrier, if she had said to him that she told civil guard she'd be "another 2 or 3 days" or something (so meaning 2-3 more days on top of the 1.5 she's already done). That would match up fairly well with what she'd told Dan of her plans.

 

[stmarysmead]

I've found the link being discussed here: Esther Dingley: Olympic skier 'saw' missing British hiker on day she disappeared in Pyrenees

This is the important part:


He's not correct that it was the first day of her trip. He says he met her at 3pm on 22nd, so that would be nearing the end of the second day of her trip.
Could be just a slight misunderstanding, maybe due to language barrier, if she had said to him that she told civil guard she'd be "another 2 or 3 days" or something (so meaning 2-3 more days on top of the 1.5 she's already done). That would match up fairly well with what she'd told Dan of her plans.

‘Thank you for clearing this up. That seems like a logical explanation.

 

[PeggyHenry]

EXCLUSIVE: Pictured: Missing British hiker Esther Dingley's Fiat camper van parked at Spanish police station as forensic officers comb it for clues over her disappearance

This was an article in Daily mail 7 th Dec.The van was parked at a Spanish police station and forensically examined. Then moved to a compound and impounded by the Guardia Civil paramilitary police who combed it for evidence after suspicions were raised that she may not have simply had an accident in the mountains.

apologies as I’m on a small iPhone and can only copy/paste.
I’m just trying to work out when the dog Walker saw the van ... after it had been impounded or before?

 

[BobbleBob]

The dog Walker seen the van on 2 Dec

from the Daily Mail article on 9 Dec

• The woman called Luciana saw a light on in Esther's campervan on December 2
• She took a closer look three hours later at 10pm and saw someone asleep inside
• She took a photo of the van parked in Beasque, Spain, and gave it to MailOnline
• Esther, 37, had parked the vehicle to go hiking up the Pyrenees before vanishing
• She was last seen on November 22 and her partner Daniel Colegate reported her missing on November 25
• Her van was impounded by the Guardia Civil three days after the sighting as forensic teams combed it for clues

Dog walker saw someone asleep in Brit hiker Esther Dingley's camper van TEN DAYS after she vanished | Daily Mail Online

 

[stmarysmead]

So this leaves open the possibility that the van was ignored while the search was underway in the mountains.

The search in the mountains was initiated by Dan when she did not return on the date she promised him that she would. But she had done this several times already.

A contributing factor, of course, was that there had been no contact. But Esther had warned that she might be incommunicado.

Now, suppose Esther actually did not have good cell service wherever she had been, or just wanted “a break” from all outside influences while she considered her future. Suppose she returned to the van on the 23rd or 24th and found someone using it. There is a possibility that she came to harm in the van.

I wonder if the van was kept locked.

I wonder if the van ever left its parking space in that time period and then returned.

I wonder if there are shops that handle resale and if any used equipment 9like Esther’s expensive equipment0 has been put for sale.

As small a chance as this might be that she was abducted or worse at the van...it’s no more unlikely than on a mountain trail.

Why wasn’t the van impounded right away? Why would a forensics investigator work at night in civilian clothes , driving an unmarked car, in a public parking lot instead of at the police station?

Something is really off here IMO.

 

[ZaZara]

So this leaves open the possibility that the van was ignored while the search was underway in the mountains.

The search in the mountains was initiated by Dan when she did not return on the date she promised him that she would. But she had done this several times already.

Snipped for brevity

The van was the first place that LE would have visited when Esther was reported missing. First and foremost to see if it was still there. If the van was still parked where Esther left it, and Esther is not there and has not been seen for a while, this lends credibility to the story that she might be still in the mountains.
Had the van not been there, it would have been a totally different story.

But the van is there, apparently nothing suspicious is to be seen from the outside, perhaps the van was even searched on the inside to see if Esther was hiding there, but no. So the search operations in the mountains are started with the helicopter, from the last known point of contact.

Spanish LE needs info from Dan about what Esther would have been carrying, he is questioned as a witness. (Meanwhile, Dan is also cleared of any possible involvement.) Contents of the van need to be checked against the list of items that Esther allegedly was carrying. First person entering the van should inspect - visually- if anything off had happened there.

IMO there is no way Spanish LE would have ignored the van at any stage of the search operations, it was the starting point of their searches.