Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #4

[RickshawFan]

Someone mentioned this before on the thread- why didn’t Esther just carry on with her hike after reaching the pic on 21st?

Snipped for focus.

Yes, this. Why didn't she go down to the Refuge for the night instead of the Cabane? If she wanted to do the Pic a second time, she could do it after spending the night at the Refuge, or after completing her hiking loop.
And she was running out of time if she wanted to do a loop. Why add a day?

 

[RedHaus]

PUPPY LOVE: Meet the five pooches travelling through Spain in a second-hand motorhome - Olive Press News Spain

Actually, @stmarysmead, we are left with three unaccounted pooches - Leela and two of her pups. Leela had six puppies. Two were given away, one to a lady in France. Two are with ED's parents. So of the seven they had at one point, three may still be with DC. Although I believe ED posted at some point all the dogs were gone. If true, I'm sad for ED that she lost all her unconditional furry love.

 

[patCee]

Snipped for focus.

Yes, this. Why didn't she go down to the Refuge for the night instead of the Cabane? If she wanted to do the Pic a second time, she could do it after spending the night at the Refuge, or after completing her hiking loop.
And she was running out of time if she wanted to do a loop. Why add a day?

Is it beyond doubt that she would return to DC in France on the 25th as expected. Maybe she just decided to extend again like she had previously. Then something happened to prevent this. Does anyone know, (I don't) how or when she informed DC she was continuing her hike on previous occasions, and how he reacted to the decision?

 

[Grouse]

I wanted to respond to earlier comments that maps are confusing. I agree. I've added dates and locations to this map. I can add trails as well, but I'm curious whether this helps.

1. Nov 21 arrives at Hospice de Benasque
2. hikes to Pic de Sauvegarde, arrives 1 PM
3. overnights at Cabana la Basurtas
4. Nov 22 hikes to Pic de Sauvegarde, 3:30 - 4:10 PM
5. intends to cross border from Spain to France at Port de Venasque
6. intends to overnight at Refuge de Venasque
7. intends to hike Port de la Glere Trail
8. intends to cross border from France to Spain at Port de la Glere
9. intends to return to Hospice de Benasque, then to Benasque to retrieve her van

View attachment 281186

That's a great summary.

So from 6 to 8 is the Port de la Glere Trail is it? On maps that looks about 12Km to me I'd guess that was her plan for the 23rd. Not sure if there's a refuge at P de la G so maybe go a bit further and stay at the hospice? Easily doable for ED given her previous "4 days of mini adventures... Each day approx 20km with 1500m uphill" Login • Instagram

Then back to the van on the 24th, or do some more exploring and the 25th at latest. That would tie in with the "4-5 day hike" DC mentions in the dossier, so the decision to linger and do the Pic de Sauvegared twice does not seem odd to me.

 

[Grouse]

Is it beyond doubt that she would return to DC in France on the 25th as expected. Maybe she just decided to extend again like she had previously. Then something happened to prevent this. Does anyone know, (I don't) how or when she informed DC she was continuing her hike on previous occasions, and how he reacted to the decision?

Maybe but she will have been aware that winter was approaching fast. I think she kept extending to take advantage of the mild autumn, making hay while the sun shines. The snow fell heavily not longer after that and would have limited hiking opportunities thereafter, so I think she'd probably have gone back at that point anyway. To see DC again, enjoy the comforts of the farmhouse, hot bath, washing machine.

 

[RedHaus]

Is it beyond doubt that she would return to DC in France on the 25th as expected

snipped for focus

You know, patCee, your query got me back to our A-B-C's of sleuthing. Now I wonder if the 'due back to DC in France on 25/11' is as true as we have assumed from the reporting done on this case. I would appreciate anyone sharing an original source of this, particularly from ED's voice. From a search on their FB pages I find nothing.

 

[RickshawFan]

Is it beyond doubt that she would return to DC in France on the 25th as expected. Maybe she just decided to extend again like she had previously. Then something happened to prevent this. Does anyone know, (I don't) how or when she informed DC she was continuing her hike on previous occasions, and how he reacted to the decision?

But time had long since become crucial, because apart from anything else, it was winter. Every day mattered; every hour mattered. The odds of miscalculation ... This is what experience is about: knowing what you are capable of (with evidence) and understanding that nature 100% will win.
IMO the season keeps getting lost in this discussion. It matters not one whit what the forecast was and that it was "mild". November hiking in the mountains is not a "mild" weather proposition. Conditions can change at any moment and catch you off guard. Slick spots can show up on the trail. Hoar frost can descend and make you suddenly helpless and cold.
In addition, we haven't heard from LE whether this area was fogbound going into late afternoon. In the summer, it definitely gets that way.
November is NOT a benign season. Every single day you push later towards December you are toying that much more with your life. It was long since time for ED to have gone home.

 

[Grouse]

snipped for focus

You know, patCee, your query got me back to our A-B-C's of sleuthing. Now I wonder if the 'due back to DC in France on 25/11' is as true as we have assumed from the reporting done on this case. I would appreciate anyone sharing an original source of this, particularly from ED's voice. From a search on their FB pages I find nothing.

I looked back through Instagram and found nothing there either. But then I thought - why am I doing this? Why would it be in doubt? I can't think of any reason DC would be lying about that.

 

[stmarysmead]

snipped for focus

You know, patCee, your query got me back to our A-B-C's of sleuthing. Now I wonder if the 'due back to DC in France on 25/11' is as true as we have assumed from the reporting done on this case. I would appreciate anyone sharing an original source of this, particularly from ED's voice. From a search on their FB pages I find nothing.

Look at her Nov 4 post. She says it’s a 4 day excursion and repeats “its good to know it’s only four days.” Is that reassurance to Dan that this is a limited getaway?

But it isn’t only four days. On and on it goes, extension after extension.

I’ve tried to think about this life she craves. IMO, it’s not just about simplicity....it’s about the need to be devoid of responsibility. Even her last treks seem pointless. Walking, climbing, looking, sleeping. Repeat. Repeat.

Her only commitment is to her own body, which she calls her “best friend.” Dan can keep her happy trekking through the mountains all summer, but, once home, in just 3 weeks she’s off...for four days...that become weeks.

Shes a child that wants to live in Disneyland for ever...IMO anyway.

 

[Bethan]

I wanted to respond to earlier comments that maps are confusing. I agree. I've added dates and locations to this map. I can add trails as well, but I'm curious whether this helps.

1. Nov 21 arrives at Hospice de Benasque
2. hikes to Pic de Sauvegarde, arrives 1 PM
3. overnights at Cabana la Basurtas
4. Nov 22 hikes to Pic de Sauvegarde, 3:30 - 4:10 PM
5. intends to cross border from Spain to France at Port de Venasque
6. intends to overnight at Refuge de Venasque
7. intends to hike Port de la Glere Trail
8. intends to cross border from France to Spain at Port de la Glere
9. intends to return to Hospice de Benasque, then to Benasque to retrieve her van

View attachment 281186

I’m only just catching up this evening, but thank you Otto for the map. Just points marked is sufficient for me....simpler....my brain gives up if I try to interpret a proper map.

 

[stmarysmead]

I looked back through Instagram and found nothing there either. But then I thought - why am I doing this? Why would it be in doubt? I can't think of any reason DC would be lying about that.

I don’t think he’s lying. But he may have been told “this is the last extension” several times. This adventure, by her own words, was meant to be only 4 days when it started.

So IMO he may be telling us just what she told him. Whether she meant it this time, no one can know.

 

[RedHaus]

I don’t think he’s lying. But he may have been told “this is the last extension” several times. This adventure, by her own words, was meant to be only 4 days when it started.

So IMO he may be telling us just what she told him. Whether she meant it this time, no one can know.

Yes, I should have been clearer. That is what I am getting at. Not that DC is not telling the truth, but that he is telling us what ED told him. And there in lies my concern. What if the information ED fed to DC those last days were not what she truly intended - the return to him on 25/11, the trek in France through the Port de Vanesque, etc.?

 

[Grouse]

I don’t think he’s lying. But he may have been told “this is the last extension” several times. This adventure, by her own words, was meant to be only 4 days when it started.

So IMO he may be telling us just what she told him. Whether she meant it this time, no one can know.

But what would it have mattered if she had got back to the van as planned and then said "I just fancy doing a few more days"? Winter was looming so she'd have probably had to concede to that and go back later that week anyway when the heavy snow came. And he'd probably have known that.

I get the feeling I'm missing something here.

 

[fridaybaker]

But time had long since become crucial, because apart from anything else, it was winter. Every day mattered; every hour mattered. The odds of miscalculation ... This is what experience is about: knowing what you are capable of (with evidence) and understanding that nature 100% will win.
IMO the season keeps getting lost in this discussion. It matters not one whit what the forecast was and that it was "mild". November hiking in the mountains is not a "mild" weather proposition. Conditions can change at any moment and catch you off guard. Slick spots can show up on the trail. Hoar frost can descend and make you suddenly helpless and cold.
In addition, we haven't heard from LE whether this area was fogbound going into late afternoon. In the summer, it definitely gets that way.
November is NOT a benign season. Every single day you push later towards December you are toying that much more with your life. It was long since time for ED to have gone home.

BBM: I've said this before on this thread and I'll say it again. Even I, never having hiked the Pyrenees, know this. I assume ED would as well, and be doubly sure of her route, open status of refuges, food supplies, etc. I'd think she'd make sure to keep someone apprised as to the details of her plans, etc. and even consider that November, and especially late November, would be a good time to plan a hike with the partner, not solo. Makes one wonder.

 

[stmarysmead]

But what would it have mattered if she had got back to the van as planned and then said "I just fancy doing a few more days"? Winter was looming so she'd have probably had to concede to that and go back later that week anyway when the heavy snow came. And he'd probably have known that.

I get the feeling I'm missing something here.

it’s just different interpretations. IMO Dan spent 3 months enabling her wanderlust...trekking day after day. IMO, they came home and were able to secure some excellent PR to sell books to again sustain their lifestyle and her need for no responsibility.

The dogs they “loved” so much are gone. Dogs do take a lot of care.

Let me add that we have three dogs, including a 15 yr old dog that is deaf, partially blind and often confused...and has expensive medical issues. We will care for him till the end.

Nevertheless, the dogs have been dispatched and Esther, although seemingly with very few responsibilities, becomes quite depressed and supposedly overwhelmed with decisions, so she has to take off again.

But it will just be 4 days.

Just when her posts about her trekking might actually further the sale of their books, (when they get a boon of publicity) ...she stops them. Coincidence....maybe.

The more I read and re-read, these are the opinions I form. Of course, it would make sense to come home with winter approaching. But three weeks in that home were seemingly unbearable to Esther, so maybe she has sought another alternative. My opinion only.

 

[otto]

That's a great summary.

So from 6 to 8 is the Port de la Glere Trail is it? On maps that looks about 12Km to me I'd guess that was her plan for the 23rd. Not sure if there's a refuge at P de la G so maybe go a bit further and stay at the hospice? Easily doable for ED given her previous "4 days of mini adventures... Each day approx 20km with 1500m uphill" Login • Instagram

Then back to the van on the 24th, or do some more exploring and the 25th at latest. That would tie in with the "4-5 day hike" DC mentions in the dossier, so the decision to linger and do the Pic de Sauvegared twice does not seem odd to me.

Yes, #6 - #8 is the trail that is included in the dossier. I think she would have bivouacked somewhere near the Port de la Glere overnight on Nov 23 and returned to the van on Nov 24. That would coincide with driving to France on Nov 25.

 

[Grouse]

it’s just different interpretations. IMO Dan spent 3 months enabling her wanderlust...trekking day after day. IMO, they came home and were able to secure some excellent PR to sell books to again sustain their lifestyle and her need for no responsibility.

The dogs they “loved” so much are gone. Dogs do take a lot of care.

Let me add that we have three dogs, including a 15 yr old dog that is deaf, partially blind and often confused...and has expensive medical issues. We will care for him till the end.

Nevertheless, the dogs have been dispatched and Esther, although seemingly with very few responsibilities, becomes quite depressed and supposedly overwhelmed with decisions, so she has to take off again.

But it will just be 4 days.

Just when her posts about her trekking might actually further the sale of their books, (when they get a boon of publicity) ...she stops them. Coincidence....maybe.

The more I read and re-read, these are the opinions I form. Of course, it would make sense to come home with winter approaching. But three weeks in that home were seemingly unbearable to Esther, so maybe she has sought another alternative. My opinion only.

OK, a tad harsh maybe IMO (given how little we know about the reasons behind the dogs and the abrupt cessation of posting) , but thanks for clarifying your thoughts/opinions.

 

[otto]

But what would it have mattered if she had got back to the van as planned and then said "I just fancy doing a few more days"? Winter was looming so she'd have probably had to concede to that and go back later that week anyway when the heavy snow came. And he'd probably have known that.

I get the feeling I'm missing something here.

We know that the man she met on Nov 19 recommended the hike route that she started on Nov 21 (see dossier). Had she not met him, perhaps she would have returned to France on Nov 20. This has always stood out for me - that she was going where the wind blew, following other people's adventures and dreams rather than pursuing dreams of her own.

 

[RedHaus]

Yes, #6 - #8 is the trail that is included in the dossier. I think she would have bivouacked somewhere near the Port de la Glere overnight on Nov 23 and returned to the van on Nov 24. That would coincide with driving to France on Nov 25. View attachment 281262

Yes, and then of course ED could have stayed 23/11 at the Cirque de la Glere Cabane... "Small cabin hidden in the woods, 2 minutes under the path. In very good condition, clean. Table, fireplace, bench on the ground floor (including 1 bench that can be used as a bed for 2 people). Floor: side wall Grid, ax, saucepan ... Accessible from the Hospice de France by the Chemin de l'Impératrice or from the Jouéou arboretum" Refuges, cabanes et abris des Pyrénées - Cabane du Cirque de la Glere

 

[patCee]

I looked back through Instagram and found nothing there either. But then I thought - why am I doing this? Why would it be in doubt? I can't think of any reason DC would be lying about that.

I don't think he's lying, that's why I wondered how it was managed when she previously extended her time away. I know the weather would decide whilst in the Pyrenees, but she wasn't confined there, with many other places to move on to where it's warmer. I'm not suggesting that ED has moved on but just curious why the 25th seemed so absolute, weather aside, when ED seemed to experience difficulty living more traditional routines. Would be interesting to know how extensions were managed. Thanks for looking Grouse.