Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #4

[Grouse]

Grouse, you are a genius with this trail map website!

See how, from the Pic, you can see climbers on the glacier almost in front of your nose? This photo: Wikiloc | Picture of La Besurta. Portillón de Vénasque. Pico Salvaguardia. Llanos del Hospital. (3/6)

IMO this would have been so enticing to ED. It looks so do-able.
Note: this is a July entry.

The sign says it's 1'45" to the Port from the Cabaña de B. IMO it would have taken ED an hour to get down.

Thanks but I can't claim that. It was RedHaus who put us onto that trail site, and you who've now found the specific trail we were looking for.

Looks like the two routes up to the Pic are quite similar in distance and ascent (around 3.5 miles and 2800ft of acsent), the one from Besurtas maybe slightly steeper but starting at a slightly higher altitude. That's comparable to when I did Skiddaw in the Lakes in my pre-ankle-crocked days, and it took us two and a half hours (though I was walking with someone a bit slower than me, and it was very warm that day). DC says ED walks fast so I'd guess an hour and a half max maybe for her?

 

[RickshawFan]

Thanks but I can't claim that. It was RedHaus who put us onto that trail site, and you who've now found the specific trail we were looking for.

Looks like the two routes up to the Pic are quite similar in distance and ascent (around 3.5 miles and 2800ft of acsent), the one from Besurtas maybe slightly steeper but starting at a slightly higher altitude. That's comparable to when I did Skiddaw in the Lakes in my pre-ankle-crocked days, and it took us two and a half hours (though I was walking with someone a bit slower than me, and it was very warm that day). DC says ED walks fast so I'd guess an hour and a half max maybe for her?

Yes! All Hail, Reddy!

The sign at the beginning of the ascent at Besurtas says the Port is a 1 hour 45 minute hike. Photo HERE.
I reckon it would take ED 1 hour to get down from the Port to Besurtas.

 

[RickshawFan]

I’m wondering if after summiting the Pic on the 21st, Esther made another new friend and planned to meet there again at that specified...and later...time on the 22nd. Esther was willing before to adjust her own plans in order to have a friend to hike with.

Or Esther might have met this person on the 21st and they traveled to the Cabane together and spent the day hiking in the region. And then had she been persuaded to change the plan she quoted to Dan in order to continue to have company the company of this friend?

Snipped for focus

Yes, exactly this

ED could so easily have just buddied up with someone. I don't mean in the romantic sense (although there could have been that, too), but in a "tag along" sense.
IMO even if they'd had a very vague idea they might possibly reconnect on the 22nd-23rd and go hike somewhere, ED would have jumped on it. It might have just taken that 2nd summit on the Pic to finally convince her, but I could see her fastening on to the idea of buddying up, no matter how vague the prospect was.

 

[RedHaus]

Reddy, I believe the cables and technically difficult piece on the way down from the Pic were above the Port, not below it. They’re on the dogleg up the Pic.

Thanks RickshawFan for that correction... I'll update that data point in my memory bank!

 

[RedHaus]

I went back to Thread #2 to find the fantastic webcam we were examining at the Superbagneres ski area (beyond the Hospice de France). Still looks very snowy and cold! This is a good way to gauge how long it will be before ground searches can happen in that wilderness. At one point we hoped to see ED in historical stills (22-23/11).
Apical Technologies - Neos 360 - Panoramique HD [if you want to find historical still shots, look for that tiny calendar icon under the video image]

Someone recently asked whether webcams (CCTV) have been examined by LE - like at the Hotel Hospital de Banesque, for instance, or in Luchon du Bagneres, perhaps. I would hope that if LE seriously considers a voluntary disappearance (and by that I am not referring to the sub-category of suicide right now) they'd be looking at cameras!

 

[PeggyHenry]

BINGO!! Thank you, who’d’ve thunk the two Plan d’Estans were so far apart!

So at 10ish on 21st she leaves the van (with a bit of encouragement from Dan) hitches two lifts, latterly with Ballarin. Gets dropped off by him at the trailhead and summits Sauv a couple of hours later, possibly stayed up there for a while, before heading back down to La Besurta for the night.

Why she didn’t stay at the nearer PdE refuge is a bit of a mystery though. And what she did the next morning - 22nd - could be key to all of this.

Yes, that morning of the 22nd could be key..seems to be a bit of a mystery. Cross referencing against her postings, she posts her last social media post from Pic on 21st and strangely, IMO, doesn’t write up her experiences on Facebook that evening as is her usual routine. It seems a distraction comes along sometime after summiting the pic on 21st. The Facebook account lies dormant until 22nd 08.57 am uk when someone posts about the BBC article thanking the BBC for being kind enough to do the article and including the strange line ‘who knows what adventures we’ll have today’ when clearly they are both apart ( I guess that’s just encouraging readers to follow them though).Who wrote that ? Esther or Dan?
I can’t tell by the language.

Maybe Esther is busy on 22 nd morning liaising with Dan over the publicity etc. But she does no more Facebook posts. Building on a thought pattern from a previous post here, maybe she is feeling micro managed and the BBC article and publicity somehow makes her more anxious/ annoyed . The BBC article may also account for all of Dan’s messages that she refers to.. maybe he is trying to get her to discuss it and how best to capitalise on the publicity.

I suppose that all this leads me to think that on evening of 21st and morning of 22nd Esther is distracted from her planned hiking routes and therefore almost hiking here there for the sake of it rather than following her planned route. Her head is full of other things... Perhaps.

 

[IrisElizabeth]

After reading Dan's latest interview with The Sun and the dossier I am convinced that Esther disappeared voluntarily and sadly ended her own life. Dan has scoured the area along with the Spanish and French teams and no trace of her has been found. If she had slipped and fallen down the mountain then surely her pack would have burst and the contents would be noticeable. In the dossier Dan considers all the possibilities but when he mentions voluntary disappearance he doesn't address that this may mean suicide - understandably so as considering that must be truly horrifying.

I know you can never really know what someone was like through their social media, but Esther does come across as being a troubled soul and the timing of her disappearance- just after the BBC article came out and the day before she was due to go back to her 'real life' and face difficult decisions about the future can't be ignored.

I hope for her family that they can one day find peace. When I was younger my boyfriend at the time was killed suddenly while working abroad, but at least the family were able to lay him to rest and we were able to come to some kind of closure. What Dan and Esther's family are going through now is absolutely heartbreaking.

 

[Grouse]

Yes, that morning of the 22nd could be key..seems to be a bit of a mystery. Cross referencing against her postings, she posts her last social media post from Pic on 21st and strangely, IMO, doesn’t write up her experiences on Facebook that evening as is her usual routine. It seems a distraction comes along sometime after summiting the pic on 21st.

My first thought on reading that was that it's simply explained by the fact she was at Refuge Besurtas that evening and without a signal, so she couldn't have posted the evening write up that seems to have been her norm. From the dossier - "Evening –Spends the night alone at Cabana de la Besurtason the Spanish side (Esther had no phone signal once she left the peak, but she confirmed this the following day when she returned to Pic de Sauvegarde). "

But you've made me think. On 21st at 13:10 she did post a series of pics on Instagram direct from the Pic, so it does perhaps seem a bit unusual that she didn't do that on 22nd as well again from the Pic, maybe a few pics from Besurtas? There's been talk of battery conservation/airline mode, but she's on day 2 of a 4-5 day trek and carrying a "Battery pack–capable of charging her phone five times" so I'm not convinced that would be an issue. As for time, she sort of seemed to be pushed for time in her messages and she arrived at the Pic late, but I would have thought she'd have had a few minutes to post an update to IG of the cabane or something. It does stand out to me as a change in patterns.

The Facebook account lies dormant until 22nd 08.57 am uk when someone posts about the BBC article thanking the BBC for being kind enough to do the article and including the strange line ‘who knows what adventures we’ll have today’ when clearly they are both apart ( I guess that’s just encouraging readers to follow them though).Who wrote that ? Esther or Dan?

I was assuming Dan would have done that. Not being out trekking I think he will have been the one focussing on stuff like that, and the books.

 

[stmarysmead]

In November, Esther and Dan had just gotten exciting news of some excellent upcoming PR...with pieces in the Spanish paper and BBC about to feature them, their dogs, and their adventurous lifestyle. I don’t think these two cared about such publicity from the point of view of ego, but my guess is that they had started seeking out media coverage so that they could find a way to continue to finance their adventures through their books.

Knowing that this publicity was coming, one would think it was most important in this time period to keep their social media fresh, entertaining and “on brand”.... as more and more people might look them up and start to follow them. They would need to build on that PR coverage IMO. This would fall to Esther since in that time period, she is the only one of the two having “adventures.”

Up until she meets the kind stranger on Nov 19, she does this very well, chronicling with pictures and dialogue what amazing things she has seen and done each day. But after the 19th...whatever she’s doing, there are no posts concerning her treks. Why is she suddenly mysterious about her ‘adventures of the day?” Why suddenly not “ sharing the joy?”

She or maybe Dan, instead post marketing pitches to sell the books. IMO, that looks like “filler” because she was no longer cooperating. It looks like at least the second one was posted by Dan, since he asks people to contact him for the sale as that will “help out.” Esther was not in a position to be taking sales calls.

I don’t have Instagram but I think the two selfies on the 21st and 22nd are her only social media contribution after the 19th. The bare minimum...after from 6-40 photos a day were more her norm in prior posts.

Suddenly, she’s telling Dan she has no cell service for over 26 hours...she’s vague about where she is going. She’s not posting photos.

Esther has changed.

Has she decided not to cooperate with Dan’s efforts to merchandise their lifestyle or is she distracted by someone new and interesting that she’s hiking with? I agree that this does not need to be a romantic connection. But IMO she may be enjoying the company and a bit tired of what might feel like Dan’s micromanaging. Instead, she wants to plan with her new hiking partner and so she placates Dan with love talk but keeps their interactions brief. Example...first thing she tells him on the Pic...

15:31 – “Not much signal in this area sorry”

“I’m on a col/peak so can’t stop for too long but wanted you to know. Can’t wait to read all your messages. Thank you .

But she DID stop for over 40 minutes and there was plenty of signal.

 

[stmarysmead]

My first thought on reading that was that it's simply explained by the fact she was at Refuge Besurtas that evening and without a signal, so she couldn't have posted the evening write up that seems to have been her norm. From the dossier - "Evening –Spends the night alone at Cabana de la Besurtason the Spanish side (Esther had no phone signal once she left the peak, but she confirmed this the following day when she returned to Pic de Sauvegarde). "

But you've made me think. On 21st at 13:10 she did post a series of pics on Instagram direct from the Pic, so it does perhaps seem a bit unusual that she didn't do that on 22nd as well again from the Pic, maybe a few pics from Besurtas? There's been talk of battery conservation/airline mode, but she's on day 2 of a 4-5 day trek and carrying a "Battery pack–capable of charging her phone five times" so I'm not convinced that would be an issue. As for time, she sort of seemed to be pushed for time in her messages and she arrived at the Pic late, but I would have thought she'd have had a few minutes to post an update to IG of the cabane or something. It does stand out to me as a change in patterns.



I was assuming Dan would have done that. Not being out trekking I think he will have been the one focussing on stuff like that, and the books.

After reading Dan's latest interview with The Sun and the dossier I am convinced that Esther disappeared voluntarily and sadly ended her own life. Dan has scoured the area along with the Spanish and French teams and no trace of her has been found. If she had slipped and fallen down the mountain then surely her pack would have burst and the contents would be noticeable. In the dossier Dan considers all the possibilities but when he mentions voluntary disappearance he doesn't address that this may mean suicide - understandably so as considering that must be truly horrifying.

I know you can never really know what someone was like through their social media, but Esther does come across as being a troubled soul and the timing of her disappearance- just after the BBC article came out and the day before she was due to go back to her 'real life' and face difficult decisions about the future can't be ignored.

I hope for her family that they can one day find peace. When I was younger my boyfriend at the time was killed suddenly while working abroad, but at least the family were able to lay him to rest and we were able to come to some kind of closure. What Dan and Esther's family are going through now is absolutely heartbreaking.

Voluntary disappearance, one sad way or the other, is my guess as well. Or a situation where a new friend she is hiking with, turns out to be a dangerous companion.

 

[Grouse]

In November, Esther and Dan had just gotten exciting news of some excellent upcoming PR...with pieces in the Spanish paper and BBC about to feature them, their dogs, and their adventurous lifestyle. I don’t think these two cared about such publicity from the point of view of ego, but my guess is that they had started seeking out media coverage so that they could find a way to continue to finance their adventures through their books.

Knowing that this publicity was coming, one would think it was most important in this time period to keep their social media fresh, entertaining and “on brand”.... as more and more people might look them up and start to follow them. They would need to build on that PR coverage IMO. This would fall to Esther since in that time period, she is the only one of the two having “adventures.”

Up until she meets the kind stranger on Nov 19, she does this very well, chronicling with pictures and dialogue what amazing things she has seen and done each day. But after the 19th...whatever she’s doing, there are no posts concerning her treks. Why is she suddenly mysterious about her ‘adventures of the day?” Why suddenly not “ sharing the joy?”

She or maybe Dan, instead post marketing pitches to sell the books. IMO, that looks like “filler” because she was no longer cooperating. It looks like at least the second one was posted by Dan, since he asks people to contact him for the sale as that will “help out.” Esther was not in a position to be taking sales calls.

I don’t have Instagram but I think the two selfies on the 21st and 22nd are her only social media contribution after the 19th. The bare minimum...after from 6-40 photos a day were more her norm in prior posts.

Suddenly, she’s telling Dan she has no cell service for over 26 hours...she’s vague about where she is going. She’s not posting photos.

Esther has changed.

Has she decided not to cooperate with Dan’s efforts to merchandise their lifestyle or is she distracted by someone new and interesting that she’s hiking with? I agree that this does not need to be a romantic connection. But IMO she may be enjoying the company and a bit tired of what might feel like Dan’s micromanaging. Instead, she wants to plan with her new hiking partner and so she placates Dan with love talk but keeps their interactions brief. Example...first thing she tells him on the Pic...

15:31 – “Not much signal in this area sorry”

“I’m on a col/peak so can’t stop for too long but wanted you to know. Can’t wait to read all your messages. Thank you .

But she DID stop for over 40 minutes and there was plenty of signal.

Some good points, though personally I don't go so far as tying it to the voluntary disappearance angle.

But I agree on the "excellent upcoming PR ". That BBC article was quite a big deal and it got a lot of attention - including mine and is what drew me into this case. So you have also got me thinking , and possibly viewing the anomaly mentioned in my previous post in a different light. That article was published to a big audience on the morning of 22nd (possibly the biggest single hit they'd ever had). It's not like a low audience blog that gains gradual attention, it's linked on the BBC 's main news site in the UK! So, from a security point of view, I'm wondering now would it be wise for ED to continue posting her whereabouts in so much detail from that point on?

And maybe from a PR angle, keep em waiting and save it all for when she gets back and use it as part of a follow up article with the BBC? A "What she did next" kind of thing.

 

[PeggyHenry]

In November, Esther and Dan had just gotten exciting news of some excellent upcoming PR...with pieces in the Spanish paper and BBC about to feature them, their dogs, and their adventurous lifestyle. I don’t think these two cared about such publicity from the point of view of ego, but my guess is that they had started seeking out media coverage so that they could find a way to continue to finance their adventures through their books.

Knowing that this publicity was coming, one would think it was most important in this time period to keep their social media fresh, entertaining and “on brand”.... as more and more people might look them up and start to follow them. They would need to build on that PR coverage IMO. This would fall to Esther since in that time period, she is the only one of the two having “adventures.”

Up until she meets the kind stranger on Nov 19, she does this very well, chronicling with pictures and dialogue what amazing things she has seen and done each day. But after the 19th...whatever she’s doing, there are no posts concerning her treks. Why is she suddenly mysterious about her ‘adventures of the day?” Why suddenly not “ sharing the joy?”

She or maybe Dan, instead post marketing pitches to sell the books. IMO, that looks like “filler” because she was no longer cooperating. It looks like at least the second one was posted by Dan, since he asks people to contact him for the sale as that will “help out.” Esther was not in a position to be taking sales calls.

I don’t have Instagram but I think the two selfies on the 21st and 22nd are her only social media contribution after the 19th. The bare minimum...after from 6-40 photos a day were more her norm in prior posts.

Suddenly, she’s telling Dan she has no cell service for over 26 hours...she’s vague about where she is going. She’s not posting photos.

Esther has changed.

Has she decided not to cooperate with Dan’s efforts to merchandise their lifestyle or is she distracted by someone new and interesting that she’s hiking with? I agree that this does not need to be a romantic connection. But IMO she may be enjoying the company and a bit tired of what might feel like Dan’s micromanaging. Instead, she wants to plan with her new hiking partner and so she placates Dan with love talk but keeps their interactions brief. Example...first thing she tells him on the Pic...

15:31 – “Not much signal in this area sorry”

“I’m on a col/peak so can’t stop for too long but wanted you to know. Can’t wait to read all your messages. Thank you .

But she DID stop for over 40 minutes and there was plenty of signal.

I hadn't linked the two together - but yes, the meeting of the kind fellow hiker on the 19th does coincide with Esther stopping the facebook updates about her travels. The final social media communication is on Instagram but no more sharing of the day's adventures. It's as if she decides to 'go private' for some reason. One theory I have is that maybe she met someone who took an interest in her and perhaps kept trying to communicate with her for a further 'meet up' and she felt intimidated or wary, so stopped advertising her whereabouts. Certainly, this change in her 'manner' could indicate Esther is feeling vulnerable. In fact, when she summits Pic de Sauvegarde again on 22nd she may well feel afraid of a night alone at RdV and goes off the beaten track - feeling hunted. I sincerely hope not but a possibility perhaps.

 

[PeggyHenry]

For anyone interested, just read an article which may indicate why Esther had chia seeds and wanted fruit..
Why drinking lots of water is not the best way to stay hydrated | Daily Mail Online

 

[stmarysmead]

There is one another scenario.

If there is a criminal act behind this disappearance, it did not need to start with someone forcing her into a car or leading her at gunpoint off the mountain. IMO, Esther was very trusting of strangers. She may well have gone along willingly with someone, hiking together, and not realized danger until she was in an isolated Refuge or Cabane with them, and the crime occurred.

 

[stmarysmead]

IMO, Esther was eager for company. The dossier tells us she even remained in Egea and then drove to Benasque in order to have the company of a complete stranger she met a few days before. This is an overnight trip...with a stranger.

8/11 - Goes hiking to Pic Turbon with the people she met during the ‘30/10 - 2/11’ hike.
9 / 11 – 11/11 – Remains in Egea and goes day hiking solo. On the evening of 11th she drives to
Benasque following an invitation to go hiking with a girl she met on Pic Turbon.
12/11 – 13/11 – Overnight trip from Benasque with the girl she met on Pic Turbon.’

Her history of hitching is well documented by Esther herself.

IMO, there are certainly ways that Esther might have willingly gone along with a stranger not anticipating that the situation could turn violent. So that’s remains a possibility.

I hesitate to add this, but when I first read Dan’s concluding section of the the dossier... I felt immediately as if it had been written to Esther. IMO It’s as if he has a puzzle piece that we do not have, and flattery and emphasis on her high moral values combined with his pain, will bring her home. Did anyone else have this reaction?

 

[Quietey]

For anyone interested, just read an article which may indicate why Esther had chia seeds and wanted fruit..
Why drinking lots of water is not the best way to stay hydrated | Daily Mail Online

That's really interesting. I've never tried them but have a couple of packets in the cupboard from my teenager's phase of making "chia jelly" - might go and bung some in the coffee grinder!

 

[RickshawFan]

For anyone interested, just read an article which may indicate why Esther had chia seeds and wanted fruit..
Why drinking lots of water is not the best way to stay hydrated | Daily Mail Online

We actually had a discussion about this upthread. Chia seeds require a lot of water to be edible and they are a bulk-up laxative (like psyllium). This is the LAST thing you'd want to have on a hike, especially a hike that exposed. Indeed, if ED had ingested chia seeds and got stomach cramps, she might have had a fatal accident trying to find a private spot where she couldn't be seen from miles around.
ED will have needed way more water than a piece of fruit provides.

 

[RickshawFan]

That's really interesting. I've never tried them but have a couple of packets in the cupboard from my teenager's phase of making "chia jelly" - might go and bung some in the coffee grinder!

Ummmm... you may want to hold off until you've read up on the laxative properties of chia seeds.

 

[Grouse]

We actually had a discussion about this upthread. Chia seeds require a lot of water to be edible and they are a bulk-up laxative (like psyllium). This is the LAST thing you'd want to have on a hike, especially a hike that exposed. Indeed, if ED had ingested chia seeds and got stomach cramps, she might have had a fatal accident trying to find a private spot where she couldn't be seen from miles around.
ED will have needed way more water than a piece of fruit provides.

But nevertheless, if ED had read literature posing the same ideas as the article Peggy posted, it might explain the thinking behind some of her behaviour.

I don't think she was new to chia seeds either. I saw a post from quite a while ago on SM showing the oat mixture she regularly ate, which had chia seeds in it, so I guess she knew how they affected her. I doubt we have another latrinegate on our hands

 

[stmarysmead]

But nevertheless, if ED had read literature posing the same ideas as the article Peggy posted, it might explain the thinking behind some of her behaviour.

I don't think she was new to chia seeds either. I saw a post from quite a while ago on SM showing the oat mixture she regularly ate, which had chia seeds in it, so I guess she knew how they affected her. I doubt we have another latrinegate on our hands

In the video on their FB blog...Blueberry Breakfast happiness...Esther shows some chia gel concoction that they are preparing to eat as part of their breakfast. This is 5 months ago on the summer trek.