Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #5

[otto]

As I understand that quote, it simply means they didn’t see the remains likely ‘cos they were under snow. It doesn’t mean the ground was bare a few weeks ago, and the bones weren’t there. He adds that they were also likely moved.

It is a bit ambiguous. On the one hand, the translation states that the bones are at an altitude covered by snow through the Winter. On the other hand, he says that according to the investigation the bones were not there a couple of weeks ago. The snow would have been gone in early July and the bones were not visible.

For some reason, he concludes that the body was obscured until recently.

I was thinking about the fact that the body is skeletonized even though it was most likely frozen for months. It's surprising. I'm leaning towards wolves, lynx, bears, or, more likely, vultures having cleaned the body in the last couple of weeks. The bones must be somewhat scattered to conclude animal activity.

I suppose we'll know when the area is searched for backpack and other personal items. I'm very curious whether those items are between the body and the Port de la Glere.

 

[otto]

Just to repeat what I tried to explain in Thread 1, the tabloids all got this wrong, the DM even created and published false maps showing a nonexistent hiking trail along the French/Spanish border. I assume somebody saw the border on a map and believed it was a trail. All the other tabloids copied the DM.

Her route was quite clearly spelled out in the dossier, why would anyone believe the tabloids instead of the dossier?

I agree. According to Esther's own words, this was her route (p. 7, link)

1. Still in the same area
2. Tomorrow heading for Port de le Glere
3. Might dip into France
4. Hoping Refuge Venasque has a winter room

Ignore the media that echoes Esther's words, and take her words literally. Don't assume that she is going to dip into France after sending the text.

 

[RickshawFan]

I was thinking to sl

Curious about what other hikers say about Port de la Glere ...

"Back enroute I could see the Port de la Glere, the pass I ascended to return over to the Spanish side of the Pyrenees last year. That ascent culminated in a very steep snowfield above a huge vertical drop. It was a case of move a foot, kick a step, move a walking pole and plunge it into the snow, then repeat with my other foot and walking pole zigzagging up the fifty plus degree slope. It was the scariest thing I'd ever done ! (1st photo shows the pass and snowfield, the lowest point on right of the 2 lowest points on the horizon)."

​

Sauntering with Terry Griffiths: June 2015

I was thinking the slope was grossly steep when I looked at your satellite photos, but thought maybe I was looking from the wrong angle. But no, huh? It really is that steep, and she was going DOWN, we think? UP might be safer, but down, on a snowfield, or wet, or icy? Gosh.
That slope terrifies me. I would’ve turned around immediately after seeing it from the crest. “Well within her abilities” erm NO.
I’m actually guessing LE looked here at this awful slope first last fall the moment it became obvious ED didn’t get to the Refuge, DC’s input to head down to the Refuge notwithstanding, since it’s a very obvious accident location, and they have to triage possible locations for searches. Maybe they used infrared or drones there, ‘cos otherwise they might want to rope up?
@otto are you able to repost those photos and highlight the trail ED took? Maybe indicate a couple of nearby peaks? There aren’t a whole lot of switchbacks, it doesn’t look like. Sheer drops on either side. On scree. That’s one crazy trail.

 

[RickshawFan]

In the link provided by ZaZara, this is the full statement, indicating that the statement is from an official source.

"If they were discovered at an altitude covered by snow much of the winter, these bones were not there a few weeks ago . According to the first elements of the investigation, they stayed "certainly in a cavity", and were undoubtedly "recently moved by animals".

"Everything suggests that these are bones recently moved by animals".
~ Jean-Marc Bordinaro, Second in command of the Saint-Gaudens gendarmerie company"
​

Disparition d'Esther Dingley : des os a priori humains, déplacés par des animaux, retrouvés dans les Pyrénées | Actu Toulouse

There could have been animal bite or beak marks on them.

 

[RickshawFan]

Photos of la Glėre: Refuge de la Glère : Hut & Campground Information : SummitPost

 

[RickshawFan]

Maybe ED meant the de la Glėre Cabane and someone jumped to the conclusion it was the Cabane de Venasque?

 

[Herat]

Speaks for itself - where she entered France (assuming the route was Porte de la Glere, dip into France, overnight at Refuge de Venasque), where she was found.

View attachment 306077

Very impressive map work, @otto

You're a cartographer sauvant.

Really helps the spatial understanding of the terrain and her options.

My guess would be a major stumble or slide on the upper portion with unrecoverable injuries.

 

[otto]

I was thinking the slope was grossly steep when I looked at your satellite photos, but thought maybe I was looking from the wrong angle. But no, huh? It really is that steep, and she was going DOWN, we think? UP might be safer, but down, on a snowfield, or wet, or icy? Gosh.

That slope terrifies me. I would’ve turned around immediately after seeing it from the crest. “Well within her abilities” erm NO.

I’m actually guessing LE looked here at this awful slope first last fall the moment it became obvious ED didn’t get to the Refuge, DC’s input to head down to the Refuge notwithstanding, since it’s a very obvious accident location, and they have to triage possible locations for searches. Maybe they used infrared or drones there, ‘cos otherwise they might want to rope up?

@otto are you able to repost those photos and highlight the trail ED took? Maybe indicate a couple of nearby peaks? There aren’t a whole lot of switchbacks, it doesn’t look like. Sheer drops on either side. On scree. That’s one crazy trail.

I'm fascinated by mapping areas where people vanish - odd hobby!

Some map angles suggest a gradual manageable slope, but the testimony of the person who hiked the snowy slope gives a very different impression. It's the fact that the snowy slope is above a dangerous vertical drop that catches my attention.

I think she was going down, but even if she was going up, the danger is the same. One wrong step and she's sliding towards the vertical drop. I have to wonder whether she was at a point where neither up or down was a good option. If it was slushy, slippery, gusting ... very tricky. I don't think it would have been well within anyone's abilities. It was more like luck and a prayer to get through it.

I can post more visuals of the mountain, but you can navigate around here:

Google Earth

Click and drag, in a circle, on the icon's circle edge to look from different directions (see: red arrow).

If 3D is visible, click on that until you see 2D. If the icon circle is not in the far right corner, double click on it. It should switch to the far right corner. Then click on the circle to drag around to different viewpoints. You can zoom in and out with the + / - .

 

[RickshawFan]

It doesn’t look like there’s a trail from the Hospital to the Port de la Glėre. There’s nothing that goes up to the ridge from the valley right there.
Pic de Sauvegarde

 

[RickshawFan]

This is the trail, folks, from the Port de la Glėre…. Ayayay
Port de la Glère : Photos, Diagrams & Topos : SummitPost

 

[otto]

Maybe ED meant the de la Glėre Cabane and someone jumped to the conclusion it was the Cabane de Venasque?

I'm wondering whether she understood the route that was recommended. Was it two routes - one to the Refuge de Venasque via Port de Venasque, another from the Spanish trailhead to the Port de la Glere? There are many sites that map the route in Spain from the trailhead to the Port de la Glere, not many that map Port de la Glere to Refuge de Venasque.

We know there was a mess of language confusion between the man who gave her a ride while hitchhiking and what he understood about her planned route.

 

[otto]

Very impressive map work, @otto

Really helps the spatial understanding of the terrain and her options.

My guess would be a major stumble or slide on the upper portion with unrecoverable injuries.

100% agree. It looks like it was very easy for hiker error to result in death, especially in Winter conditions. It's odd that Esther knew that the Refuge de Venasque was closed for Winter - meaning the trails are essentially closed, and that France was in full lockdown due to covid, and still she wanted to hike a dangerous steep closed Winter trail in France. <modsnip>

 

[Herat]

I'm very curious about the man that Esther met on Nov 19 who recommended this route. Had he recently done the route? Did he mention it as a route that would truly challenge her? Had he done the route in better weather? It is a route that we now know very likely took her life. I'm curious about how he would describe that conversation.

"An individual that Esther met on 19th November came forward to say he had specifically suggested this route through France, between Port de Venasque and Port de la Glere, to Esther when he met her. There is no reason to think that Esther did not stick to this plan."
​

p. 8
https://42cc80b7-be3b-41e3-a85b-18b...d/4addd9_d8c55b489c6f445b96d6324dd882f5a1.pdf

Yes. I agree. This sounds like someone who gave absolutely terrible advice for the conditions. We don't know what kind of warnings or cautions were discussed.

The most natural route would have been east from the Pic down the Port de Venasque to the winter refuge then a big big climb in possibly icy/snowy condition up and over the Port de la Glere. A daunging task because it would be all uphill on a trail that may not have been recently broken due to the quarantine, so the conditions might have been more like alpine climbing, not hiking. Surely the stranger could have seen she was traveling very light and didn't have winter boots, an ice ax, crampons, or the intent to do climbing rather than hiking.

Finding her gear will probably tell us the story.

 

[RickshawFan]

This seems to be a trail up from the Hospital… though the post I have ^^^^ shows no trail
Port De La Glere

 

[RickshawFan]

Oh, my gosh, look at this thing! From the top it looks like a cliff, too.
Wikiloc | Picture of Port De La Glere (5/6)

 

[RickshawFan]

Lots of nooks and crannies:
Wikiloc | Picture of Port De La Glere (6/6)

 

[otto]

It doesn’t look like there’s a trail from the Hospital to the Port de la Glėre. There’s nothing that goes up to the ridge from the valley right there.
Pic de Sauvegarde

There is a trail from the trailhead, at Hospital de Benasque, to the Port de la Glere.

Google Earth

OpenTopoMap - Topographische Karten aus OpenStreetMap

 

[otto]

This is the trail, folks, from the Port de la Glėre…. Ayayay
Port de la Glère : Photos, Diagrams & Topos : SummitPost

From your link - definitely inviting!

 

[otto]

Yes. I agree. This sounds like someone who gave absolutely terrible advice for the conditions. We don't know what kind of warnings or cautions were discussed.

The most natural route would have been east from the Pic down the Port de Venasque to the winter refuge then a big big climb in possibly icy/snowy condition up and over the Port de la Glere. A daunting task because it would be all uphill on a trail that may not have been recently broken due to the quarantine, so the conditions might have been more like alpine climbing, not hiking. Surely the stranger could have seen she was traveling very light and didn't have winter boots, an ice ax, crampons, or the intent to do climbing rather than hiking.

Finding her gear will probably tell us the story.

Something is off about someone recommending this hike on Nov 19, shortly before she embarked on the hike. Was there a misunderstanding? Was it bravado? Bragging? Daring?

Even if the recommendation was Pic de Sauvegarde, to Port de Venasque, to Refuge de Venasque, to Port de la Glere, to the trailhead, conditions in France near the Port de la Glere in late-November are clearly dangerous. Route safety depends entirely on weather. Within days of her hike, on Nov 27, that region was under cloud and snow until Spring.

If she started the hike at the refuge, she would have been short on supplies by the time she ran into trouble on the France side of the Port de la Glere. Turning around could have meant going for 24 hours without food.

I hope her gear is found soon, as it will tell us more about her route and her circumstances.

 

[RickshawFan]

Hike from Hospice to Port de la Glėre elevation profile. See how it’s near vertical as you approach the top?
Trail Walking at Bagnères-de-Luchon: Port de la Glere | SityTrail